VILLAMARV

No. I think we need to sell to buy and i cant see that happening. Loans wont mean a thing imo Our only hope is the last day goes crazy, someone leaves for cash (not future fees or staggered payments) and we have enough time and money to reinvest before the window shuts. So like I said - NO

Errr, Jean Il Makoun? Houllier bought him, McMuppet loaned him out so he lost his work permit and is now just sat there leaching money from us to play for someone else. McMuppet (with the benefit of hindsight) spent approx £17m loaning Jenas and signing Hutton, Given and Nzogbia to big, long contracts with no relegation release clauses. I dont think any of them have proved good buys. Personally I'm so glad the club didnt give him the downing money to play with too or god knows what sort of mess we'd be in. Add the fact that the club have spent a reported £15m over the last 3 years paying off MON's unfair dismissal case, paying off Houllier and McAllister, paying small heath for McMuppet - then paying him and Grant off to leave and finally compensating Delia for nicking their manager. That £15m would have been nice sat in the war chest no?

Dunne, Warnock, Lichaj and Marshall are out of contract in the summer. Makoun, Ireland, Albrighton, Bannan, Clark, Herd, Weimann, Gardner and Baker till 2014 Bent, Agbonlahor, Hutton, Holman, Vlaar, Delph, KEA, Guzan, Bowery and Stephens till 2015 Given, Nzogbia, Bennet, Westwood, Benteke and Lowton till 2016 Yes, yes it is.

Very, Very good point. Could it not be left open but renamed "DREAM ON VILLA FANS, DREAM ON" ? At this point though unless we bring a fee in by offloading someone, Lambert aint got a penny to spend. That much is obvious. If it's true that Bent, Given, Nzogbia, Ireland, Agbonlahor and Hutton have no relegation release clauses in their massive contracts (Faulkner's so brilliant isn't he) then anyone interested in them for real would be mad not to wait until the summer when relegated or not they will be available cheaper. If we go down they'll all be available for peanuts. Surely the reason they are all looking so down when anyone mentions transfers is they know that our rivals hold all the cards - Lambert must be well aware that no-one wants to pay for any of them - maybe when he came in he thought he could have forced warnock and hutton out by now and that he could have offloaded Bent, Given and Ireland for decent money and that he could have made himself some money to play with, maybe not - I'm very much guessing at that. If we could get £15 - 17m for Bent right now do you not think Lambert would be biting their arms off? Rumours suggest teams have put cheeky offers of around £7 - 8m for him, just to test our resolve. We all know we're in this mess thanks to Lerner, Faulkner, MON, Houllier and McMuppet. Seems Lamberts mistake was to blow all his season's budget before September and gambling on another team giving us some money to play with in January.

I HOPE it can never be more embarrassing than watching your own player just throw the ball into the net against your biggest rivals. Still makes me feel sick just thinking about it now. 6-0 against Newcastle was pretty sickening a couple of seasons ago. made me so angry i wrote the club a letter of complaint! 8-0 Chelsea was heartbreaking Handing Man Utd the title by losing away at Oldham (Damn you Ian Olney) Bradford, Burnley, Doncaster - any cup loss to a lower league team hurts But that 3-0 is still used as a stick to beat me with now and it was over 10 years ago

Great day, my housemates were so sure Leeds were gonna roll over us I still blinked thinking i'd imagined Savo scoring 20yrs later! Carlton Palmer there in the Leeds team too I see. Always remember what Le Tissier said of him in his book - "He could trap a ball further than i could pass it"

Not surprised to see we've had the most chances created against us than any other team this season. that is the most telling stat on the chart imo As for defensive midfielders and Swansea in particular isn't Britton the guy who generally breaks stuff up for them? Just coz he's 5'5" doesn't mean he cant play in the defensive midfield role. 3 of the finest players in that position in my lifetime i can remember are off the top of my head Mascherano (5'9") Makelele (5'7") and Mattheus (5'81/2") - none of them particularly tall. You're spot on about the second phase though. And against Bradford in the 1st leg it was embarrassing. They were first to everything in and around our box that night, but its been going on all season. We never seem to have anyone marshalling the D whether defending or attacking set pieces and this is costing us big time.

For me it's a shame that the soap opera I thought it would be has proved right with Ireland. Was always onto a hiding being a makeweight in the Milner deal. Personally it was like a swift kick to the right when i heard we lost Milner then a follow up kick to the left when i heard we had Ireland as part of it. Then I started to realise why MON felt it was time to leave. He slagged off Man City and their players after demanding £2m to leave on his way out the door First season was a nightmare starting with his debut in the 6-0 thrashing by Newcastle ending up with Houliier saying he needed to "work harder on his game" then telling his agent he was free to leave in the first transfer window after signing him - then shipping him off to Newcastle on loan on the last day of the window (coz no-one wanted him) where he got into trouble before he'd even played for them being pictured out on the lash the night before a game Came back to Villa, 2nd season under McMuppet. gets a run of games then gets done up by his mrs on twitter at xmas when she posts THAT photo of him errr "relaxing" at home. Cue NATIONAL OUTRAGE from the UK's Daily Mail readers, TV, Radio all on his case. suddenly the whole world is watching again and he goes and inspires that 3-1 win at chelsea where he scored his only goal to date in a Villa shirt and also set up the 3rd goal (one of only 2 assists in a Villa shirt) in a great, well deserved man of the match performance. Under Lambert he was unlucky to break his wrist against Southampton after some promising performances in the first few games. from what was said of him by Lambert early on he either rates him as a player or decided that building him up and praising him would get the best out of him. I seriously never wanted him here in the first place and think it was THE moment that the rot set in in Lerner's reign when we signed him. The really infuriating thing for me is he has an amazing first touch and the ability in passing and vision I could only dream of. Im not ITK, I dont know what people are paid but it's often bandied around on here that he 's on £60k a week. If that's so it means between us (Played 55, Goals 1, Assists 2) and Newcastle (2/0/0) in the last 2 and a half years we've shelled out around £7,800,000 in wages for 1 goal and 2 assists. The even stranger thing is I want Lambert to play him. I just wish any of us had ANY idea what goes on in that shiny little head of his. If he suddenly finds the form that led him to score 20 goals in 3 years at City we'll beat the drop - that I'm sure of.

Sounds like pretty spot on analysis of the midfield passing anomaly to me con although granted they are probably short passes lol

Lambert has spent the money from Downing and Collins on the players he's bought in. Considering the amount of money we've shelled out replacing manager after manager id be surprised if there was anything left in the pot that's actually being generated by the club. Barring Lerner upping our debt to him some more and putting cash in (Highly unlikely) the only way Lambert will have anything to play with is by selling what we already have. This is the problem for Lambert at the moment. I reckon the difference between the wage bill and the income of the club will be his transfer kitty so i wouldn't expect a huge amount unless he can sell... Squad needs a drastic overhaul. I reckon everyone has to come to terms with the fact that when Lambert took over - paywise the "First 11" at villa have underperformed (with the obvious exception of a fit Petrov) Lambert didnt sign any of them - Lambert didnt negotiate their wages. He shouldnt get stick for the mistakes he hasn't made. after all he's making enough that he can be criticised for at the moment! IMO the McMuppet signings backed by the board were suicidal. I strongly agree with everyone who's pointing out that the Lambert signings aren't really the problem. Even if Bennett has been found wanting, KEA has not been the player we were expecting and Lowton isn't instantly as good as Caca like those knocking him seem to want him to be. Also cant believe people are seriously questioning his judgement in signing Benteke - are you for real?

last published accounts (2010/2011 - pre McMuppet) showed we had a wage bill of £83.4m a year (7th highest at the time in the Premier League) Income was around 92m and the debt owed to Lerner was £113m. That was when we bought Bent + Makoun, took Ireland instead of just cash from Man City when we lost Milner (Lerner and Faulkners biggest mistake in my opinion or maybe signing Heskey.....I digress) took Walker on Loan and signed Pires - at the same time shipping out half the youth team and the likes of Sidwell, Harewood, Shorey, Davies and Bouma. During the disaster that was last season (and dont forget who was responsible for choosing the manager) McMuppet was allowed to spend the money from the sales of Lowry, A Young, L Young and the fee for loaning Olympiakos Makoun On Given, Nzogbia, Hutton, Enda and loaning Jenas. We lost Carew, Friedel, Pires, Salifou and Downing along with some other youth players from the wage bill. I would expect that actually cut the wage bill quite a bit even if we get lumbered with Given, Nzogbia and Hutton who've never really cut it so far in their villa careers. The money from the sale of Downing alleged to be around £20m is what Lambert seemingly got given at the start of the season. We FINALLY got Heskey off the paysheet (how much money did that actually cost us in the end) and lost Cuellar, tha amazing Habib Beye! and Collins too (Last one's undoubtedly a mistake whatever his attitude was like). If it's to be believed that the likes of Vlaar, Benteke, KEA etc are on less money than previous signings then I reckon the costcutting exercise is going well. Now I dont work for Villa and I have no real idea what individuals get paid, I'm not a shareholder and ive never seen their accounts. But one thing is for sure, the following 10 players - Hutton, Warnock, Dunne, Bent, Agbonlahor, Ireland, Nzogbia, Given, Makoun and Petrov are surely among the highest paid players at the club. For a miriad of different reasons they have clocked up 47 appearances in the premier league this season between them - Gabby 12 Bent 10 Ireland 13 Nzogbia 10 Given 2 (conceded 4) They've contributed 4 Goals: Gabby 2 Bent 2 and 5 Assists: Nzogbia 2 Ireland 1 Bent 1 Gabby 1 (In writing this out I notice with the addition of another centre back that's a whole starting 11!) Now I know we bleat on about the money paid to footballers these days and all that but for whatever the reason is the club getting value for money from these players at the moment in your opinion? Discuss

Icing about him. Baker Dozen Knead it Dough. Glad to hear he's quite good when he Pasty ball too.

I just feel it's too simplistic to draw a proper conclusion - I was just trying to add my few words to the idea that the raw data doesn't include what percentage of long passes were made by the relevant positions when there were a) other options or no other options (mainly because the midfield have pushed up leaving Bennett and Lowton isolated time and time again) the midfield must be the link between the defence and the attack. I agree that the stats prove we do it too much (DF hitting the long ball) but I dont agree that this is the fault of the defenders. I dont think the midfield are organised enough, I dont think they work hard enough with or without the ball. I get slated for suggesting bannan is our best crosser - especially when he takes corners like the ones against Bradford in the second leg but I'm chuffed to see the stats back this up. Its all about where they're passing to and from still. Lowton and Bennett never seem to have anyone running any sort of angle in front of them and get isolated alot. The pitch size point was really just reminding everyone that a cross from Lowton or bennett to the far post would still be classed as a long pass from a defender The main reason why im still fully behind Lambert (and the reason i want him to work out in my heart) is that i cant remember having a manger who wants to keep possession more. There's been a noticeable change recently but from game one against portland timbers or whoever it was the goalies have been instructed to ALWAYS try rolling the ball out and attempting to play our way out from the back. I wonder how many less hoofs up to the big man from the keeper we've seen this year over previous years for instance? Lambert wants to play football unlike O'leary, MON and he who must not be named. For the record though con I'm loving the stats and how people interpret them. I just think you should use your eloquant typing skills and obvious flair for numbers to hammer the midfield not stick up for them and criticise the defence for the right things. how high does our midfield as a whole rank for goals scored, assists provided and more importantly points gained at the final whistle aginst the others? Are there any stats for which team looks the most scared if we conceed a corner? I bet we'd be top of the league on that one

Aston Villa - The best team of the 1880's

This all leaves me wondering what the stats looked like from the first few games compared to the last few. Seems to me that we're getting longer and longer with our passing every game (though thats an opinion i got no stats to back it up! I dont buy the defence giving it to the midfield argument though - Holman is the worst passer of the ball we've seen for a long time bannan and delph both seem to come deep to collect the ball off the back 3/4/5 all the time then guess what.... hoof it forward and we lose possession. Nzogbia is always good for getting his head down and running into the opposition to give the ball away without trying to ever pass. Also with Lambert playing wingbacks it puts the onus on Lowton and bennett to get more involved but the woeful movement from our midfield constantly leaves them with no other option than to hit it long. But like you say stats are always able to back up your point - whatever it may be. with that in mind remember villa park is 68m wide and an average pass length of 21m is shorter than a corner to the near post. Too much is made of this "long ball" theory in this country, When the long ball is on - spot it and hit it long, when it's not - keep possession, play it short. The first one is easier. The second one requires a team that plays for each other moving into space, dragging defenders out of position which makes the short passing game look easy when it's done well. Passing is the half of it. movement (and shape) is what we're lacking and apart from distance run i dont think there are any stats for that.

only his missus surely

I'm a great believer in the idea that some foreign imports need a season to adjust to the pace of the game in Britain Bergkamp had a pretty poor 1st season too for Arsenal and he is one of the greatest players Ive ever seen live. I'm not suggesting KEA is in that class! but he might be useful IF he can get to grips with the pace of it all over here. Also he only passes sideways so if recent history is anything to go by he's perfect for us!!

In fairness to Vlaar he didnt miss a header for their goal coz he wasn't watching and never made a challenge! Benteke mistimed his jump fractionally and missed with his header while Vlaar was too busy watching Hanson run about to bother about the ball! That mistake aside forgetting all stats and staistics and basing it purely on what ive seen of him this season I feel much more comfortable when he's in the team. He's our most composed defender by a mile. He deserves the captaincy too and with the exception of maybe Guzan has been the most consistent performer too. The question mark over him is his fitness. He's had injury troubles in the past and I think thats why the bigger clubs weren't really looking his way. But he is quality imo

In an ideal world.......... First and foremost i want to see Petrov in a Villa shirt one more time even if it's just for 2 mins at the end of the last home game. I want Gabby, Guzan, Benteke, Weimann, Vlaar, Baker, Lowton and Westwood to stay injury free for the rest of the season. I want to see a holding midfielder and a centre back brought in in this window. After that I'd like to see Given, Dunne, Ireland, Albrighton, Hutton, Warnock, Delphouneso and Makoun leave the wage bill and Lambert be backed by the owners to bring in a new midfield with an emphasis on wide players a priority.

I suppose I am in a way but I am basing my opinion of Nzogbia and Ireland on the way they've conducted themselves over the course of their careers. Ask Newcastle fans what they think of Nzogbia! both have been known to grace the field in Claret and Blue in the manner of Matt LeTissier at his laziest but without an ounce of his determination, goals or assists. in fairness to Nzogbia it seems like he's started to put a shift in for us - but lets face it - it's about time. Ireland is great with the ball at his feet but he wants the ball played into him and rarely goes running into channels even when the chance arises and imo a modern day forward needs a huge amount of mobility and the ability and desire. He also slows down our attack all too frequently - although he was a bit unlucky to be offside last night after bennett's little run. Lichaj and Holman are two players I would say have limited ability on the ball compared with the rest of the squad but their evident determination endears them to the fans. In referring to them as prima donnas I was just saying i think they act as if they've acheived everything in the game when in reality at the moment it looks like they will retire and look back on fairly average careers. Compare that with the attitude towards the game of the entire Bradford team and I truly believe it made a difference over both legs. Sure they had some luck but you make your own luck through hard work imo

Guessing at what happens is fine but dont judge someone on guesswork. I'm personally more inclined to believe we've got a squad full of big time charlies that lack the dicipline on the pitch to implement the gaffers instructions. I know i risk everyone shouting me down after the lack of shape last night but in the footage of the interview he gave after last nights match he looked genuinely exasperated at the lack of width and supply as if the players let him down. and like caz said WTF has his accent got to do with anything? have you ever seen or heard a Dalgleish interview! lol As for being ignorant in blaming Lerner and the likes of Faulkner et al for where we are - Yes you have a valid point that Lerner has spent money and it could be argued that they backed every manager with cash. I would counter that with the fact that MON was backed by Lerner - and we never got to the top 4 and the CL money. When Barry, Young and Milner were all let go it was obvious we weren't seriously going for the top 4 anymore and since then the investment has come from the sales of other players. The decision by the backroom team to OK some of the contracts offered in their time (Heskey on 60k a week?) is most of the reason we plead poverty. people often complain about a lack of plan B on the field but if you spend 75% of your transfer budget for the season on Nzogbia what is plan B if he turns out to be the arrogant self important prima donna everyone knew he was at newcastle, long before his wigan days. Taking Ireland (pipe smoking, granny death lying prima donna that he is) in exchange for Milners little toe is an insult Man City's owners will be laughing about for years to come. Lambert is making mistakes along the way there is no doubt about that, but go with me on this: If you worked in an office and the employees kept making mistakes you'd ask their manager to sort it out. If that doesnt sort it maybe you change the manager. If they then keep making the same mistakes under new leadership you might call the new manager in ask him to sort it out and if the same shit keeps happening at what point do you say, right its the employees in the office. Players need to take most of the blame for last night. as a team. not individuals. and its the same individuals that have underperformed for the last 2-3years that are the problem.

Couldnt agree more. He's not the one who got us where we are squad wise he's the guy we asked to get us out of this mess and i cant see how turning on him is gonna help. Players need to shoulder responsibility and owners need to start understanding how much we need a centre back and a controlling central midfielder.

Lets be honest no - one expected us to keep a clean sheet tonight and we needed 3 or 4 goals to turn it round at home. The fact that we didn't get them is why we lost that match. What's so hard to comprehend is what happens to our players at half time in EVERY match this season? Couldn't agree with Peter Beagrie more though on Sky just now saying that when we threw Weimann and Bent on you're expecting the likes of Nzogbia and Agbonlahor to get out wide and supply some width. Weimann gave it a go but why Clark was down the left with Delph dropping into the backline with 5 mins to go is beyond me. Beagries point was that "that has to come from the players sometimes" and in the second half i didnt see any of them play with the same intensity. there was a good half an hour after they scored but they all seemed shellshocked. Too much whingeing from the players and not enough taking the game by the scruff of the neck (whatever that is!) None of the players wanted the ball. The 3 or 4 strikers goal hanging in the D tells you alot about the psyche of the players imo. They need to realise you dont get the glory moments without doing the hard work to go with it. Lack of a controlling influence in midfield is so blatant it's scary I cant believe Lambert's told them to go out and bottle it in the second half and i don't want him out.

shame about the shot at the end coz delph's had a good go at 'em first half. More of the same please only with 3 goals this half please. I'll start to chill out if they start needing 2 goals. Weimann on for Bannan in 10 mins time if he dont step it up and lets go for 'em