Papillon

well Ferguson was shocking in Europe, 2 wins in 20 years really is a poor record and was rarely brought up. United look more comfortable in group stage than a Fergie team has in a while He won two Champions League-trophies and his record is shocking? I mean, shocking like pathetic and not even close to being even average? That's a pretty ludicrous statement if you ask me, the tournament involves a lot of luck and fortune in the end, it could have been more and it could have been less. Fergie built a team and first won the league in 1992/93. They entered the CL and since then Real Madrid have three victories, AC Milan have three, Bayern München have two, Liverpool have one, Barcelona for all their dominance have three, Internazionale have one, Juventus have one, Porto have one and so on. NO team can dominate in terms of winning, the tournament involves so many good teams over time and then you factor in injuries, lucky decisions in one single game, fatigue on one single day and numerous other factors. The best team doesn't always win, like we saw with Chelsea two years ago and certainly with Liverpool back in 2005 when they were hammered only for AC Milan to celebrate the victory at half-time. United won one cup in the 90th and 92nd minute and the other one on penalties, but they are still the winner those years. To say Fergie's record is shocking in the Champions League is so naive when you look at the teams that actually win, it's on par with most other teams and you can factor in that they always competed for the top spot in a highly competitive league unlike Spain, Germany and often Italy. Liverpool won the competition back in 2005 and they finished 5th in the league, that takes away a lot of "champion" for me. But hey, that's the rules. If Fergie's record is shocking, you kind of bring all the other teams and all the other managers into that description.

I don't know the stats and I'm certainly not going to check it out, but I reckon that the reason why we never score late goals is because we are a poor team! It's also exactly why we get fewer penalties, because we spend less time in the box on the other side of the pitch. It's science! I think Man Utd scored the most goals late on last season (when they won the league) and this year they are poor and they haven't scored many goals in the end. Poor teams also tire at the end against better teams and invite a bukkake of opportunities to score from 80 minutes onwards...

Around 81% of people in the world are right-footed, I guess that holds the same for footballers. So let's end the argument (if there ever was one) about having a left-footed player next to a right-footed, it's hard to find one, let alone a good one! Besides, stoppers mainly play short passes during a game and they should be pretty good with both feet regardless.

That's a pretty poor analogy though. If you build a house you hire someone who can build the **** house, and you change carpenters if they aren't showing up on time or doing it wrong. You kind of suggest that he will succeed in the job no matter what if given the time, but you cannot possibly say that at this time. To use your example even further, what about those guys who started to redecorate their house but ten years later there's still an empty room filled with bricks and unused paintbrushes. Equipment they bought cheap of course. Staying with your manager (or CEO if it was a big company) through hardships can be both noble and profitable, but it can also be calamitous - or extremely naive. The decision is of course for qualified people to make, and they don't tend to be sentimental when it comes to these things.

Progression, more points, higher up the table - it's pretty naive to talk about progression when we are looking at the bunch of teams fighting for relegation. We are certainly in the category. Talking about points gained opposed to last season is also irrelevant, especially when it's down to a few points and a few goals. For example; scoring two more goals and nicking two more points compared to the first 26 games last season is not progression, that's looking at things entirely in our favor. Let's play 38 games and then look at the table, that's when we we can obviously talk about the so-called development and progression we have had. Besides, you play the teams you are up against in the league each season, 47 points one season can be better than 52 points in another. Norwich finished on 47 points and in 12th under Paul Lambert, the following year they finished 11th with 44 points under the leadership of Chris Hughton, the latter obviously the better result in the end. Tottenham finished 5th last season with 72 points, in 2011/2012 they finished 4th with 69 points. My point is that we cannot call 12th and 28 points progression up to this point, it doesn't make any sense. Sure had we played like Southampton and grabbed 39 points thus far, it would have been obvious and undeniable for everyone, but right about now we are four points above direct relegation and let's not pretend that is a safe distance. Over 38 games everyone will have met each team twice and the table is clear; we cannot make any conclusions right now and call it progression. It simply isn't, we are exactly where we were last season give or take a few goals in a long, messy algorithm.

Surely, United will not play in the Champions League next season. They would probably have to win the Champions League for that to happen, and it would take quite some miracle. However, playing in the Champions League is not everything. Not playing in it means more time to concentrate in the league next season, something United will cherish when they are building a new team. They will probably qualify for the Europa League, but don't expect Rooney/Van Persie/Mata to play many games away to Ukrainian and Norwegian sides. I wouldn't even be surprised if they refused to play in the competition, offering it to the team finishing under them if possible. Toni Kroos is 24, his next move (if any), will be for the future. He wants to play in the Champions League, but he is also smart enough to see that if United are signing him, Juan Mata and equal quality it will only be a matter of time before they come back into the CL. Yaya Toure signed for City before the 10/11-season and they didn't play in the Champions League that following season.

I would love for them go down as well, but let's not forget they are above us in the table!

He was making a diving gesture torwards Robben before the penalty was taken, real clever from him since he probably hasn't seen the replay at that point. Szczesny then making the "rocket polisher" sign as he walks off the pitch, again, real smart as we all know how that is appreciated by UEFA. Arsenal, always really good but never best. Ten years since they won the league and they won't win anything this season either.

Bayern started with Müller and Schweinsteiger on the bench tonight. That means you probably have a pretty good squad...

Impossible to say, it's probably just water/sweat from somewhere

One suddenly realizes why Real Madrid let Mesut Özil go, he really needs the team to play for him - because he is certainly not going to play for the others. He is known for his assists and a few goals, but when he is not chipping in with those he is worthless on the pitch. Very poor in the defensive game and drifts out of many games, both against great teams and against poor teams. He has 4 goals and 9 assists this season, but only one assist in his last eight games. Luxury player

That would be the single most perfect thing in the history of football. I would grab a six-pack, pop some popcorn and visit RAWK, the Liverpool-forum. Those guys bring delusion to another level.

5th and 10th are two different worlds though. We can finish 10th, even this year, but we can't finish 5th next year. The chance of that happening is 0%. 8th is the absolute highest we can dream of next season, and that's probably if we buy a whole set of new players and get a new manager in. Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Man Utd, Everton and Tottenham compete for the first seven places, so I don't really understand how you come up with 5th. Do you actually see us finishing ahead of teams like Tottenham and Everton? If so, I would really like to hear the explanation.

They guy that was sacked in 2008 and never got appointed again? My guess is that nothing will happen to him, except for sitting in the studio and commenting on stuff everyone knows already.

If it works out, then everyone will say it's a good deal for Fulham. However, sacking two managers in a few months is plain strange. I feel bad for Meulensteen, he is a really decent guy and his English is very welcome in this world of annoying accents. Wenger has been here for what, 20 years - and it sounds like he's been here for two months. Pathetic. Buy hey, I guess excellent spoken language doesn't appear on top of the list of attributes He should go back to being an assistant manager, he was quite good at that. Hope Fulham go down, hate it when idiots like Khan take over clubs just to have a plaything.

I think it's rich when people say he offers nothing except for scoring goals, you know, since we lack goals and goals win you matches. It's also quite funny that some try to paint the portrait of him only scoring if supplied by Özil and Mata, when he scored 24 goals for a very poor Sunderland-side. He is finished now, he is older and his confidence will never return, but I think Lambert has a whole lot to do with that. He was still a very good player when Lambert took over and since that he has been poor. Interestingly enough, we have suffered since Lambert took over in terms of scoring. Weimann and Gabby never score enough and now even Benteke is struggling. At Cardiff we screamed for a poacher to put those chances away, but we don't have that option on our bench. We are all about a system, probably the worst kept secret in the Premier League because everyone knows we play best when we have a lot of space and time down the corridors. I don't want Darren Bent back now, and I would never trade him for Benteke, but I would have wanted him to play from day 1 and get that confidence. He went from captain and starter to the bench in a matter of weeks, that's not the way to do things. Especially when we have paid his wages and still have him on our books.

Norwich (H) - A game where can easily grab three points on a good day. We seem to have a good hold of them Man City (A) - We are never going to get anything here, I would even take a 2-0 loss right now just to avoid humiliation. They average almost four goals each game at home! Chelsea (H) - A point is possible, just like West Ham and WBA achieved recently. Most likely a loss though, our defensive unit is just too weak and Chelsea will grow stronger in my opinion Stoke (H) - Same with Norwich, we'll probably win one of those two games, but if we nail both we are most likely staying up! Man U (A) - They are not the same as under Ferguson, but still a good team and now Van Persie, Rooney and Mata are all playing. It's not like they're Newcastle all of a sudden. Loss

Yeah I totally agree. People always talk about height, pace, which foot the player passes with and so on. A really good defender needs to be really good at defending, which means being smart, anticipating the next move, breaking up play, reading the opponent and all the other characteristics. A player can not be picked purely on his physical attributes, because many of the great players in the history of football have not been part of the typical bracket. Which foot he uses is probably the dumbest argument of all in my opinion. Cannavaro was 176 cm, Vidic and Terry have always been slow, Baresi was 176 cm and so on. Sure attributes apply to certain types, for example wingers and strikers. A very slow winger will always struggle even if he has great technique, and he will suffer down the wing because he can't sprint back to help out defensively, and if you are a very good header of the ball but lousy with your feet, it won't do much good if you are a striker at 170 cm. But at centre back it's all about stopping the opponents and the most important thing is anticipation and quick reactions, the slow guys always know when to step back to take out a fast striker and when to tackle him before he even gets the ball in his feet. Of course, it does help to have a lot of pace and strength, but it won't help if you on top of that read the game like James Collins or Titus Bramble. Zat Knight was a tall and physical player, but god was he awful. Having two centre halves with two different passing feet means absolutely nothing, at least in my opinion. I want Okore to utilize his pace and aggression, which are two things I have seen in the little playing time he has gotten here, but let's hope he's not the type who rashes into tackles and continually make stupid free-kicks on the edge of the box. As for how his passing is, I reckon he will do just fine with both feet when he makes those 10 ft passes to the full-back.

Yeah the results against Arsenal and Man City were lucky as hell, but they did happen. Beating Southampton away was also fortunate, but we all know Soton aren't good enough to be consistent at home like Manchester City. Saying that, no-one can take away our results in these games - and remember that both Cardiff and Sunderland have posted big wins this season. Cardiff beat Man City on the second day of the season, and my theory has always been that it's great to play the best teams early on. I don't think we would have stood a chance against Arsenal at Emirates when the season is set, but on the first day you have a much bigger shot. Cardiff also drew Everton and Man Utd at home. Sunderland have beaten both Man City at home and Everton away, the only two games they won in 11 games. What about Stoke? They drew Man City at home, won against Chelsea at home, held Everton and won against Man Utd last week. Hull beat Liverpool 3-1 out of the blue at home, and I guess all these games can be deemed lucky as the best teams squandered chances just like they did against us. You get points you don't really deserve and and lose some you really deserve. Beating Arsenal was great, but we only took one point on Tuesday when we could/should have beaten Cardiff in the second half. Over 38 games it always equals out, very few teams have rode their luck and gotten something more than deserved over so many games. I view myself as a realist, probably looked at as a pessimist on here, but that's how a forum works when everybody support the same team. I am the kind of guy who don't get behind people like Alex McLeish when we sign him on and expect him to do something he has never done before, aka blind faith. And for that reason, people should take it as a good sign when I don't think we will go down this season

Lampard makes sense do to his age and lack of contribution this season, but he still has a decent 1309 minutes on the pitch as well as four goals and three assists. But it must be tough to not make those classic runs anymore or hit those sweet strikes like he used to. Gerrard will carry on for at least a season, especially if they qualify for the Champions League. He still holds a pretty high level and has six goals and nine assist in the league. He will retire without a Premier League-throphy though, which is a nice conciliation.

I did kind of the same thing in the game thread for Cardiff, and even I had us at 41 points I think it was. The thing is, all the teams under us will look at their fixtures and dread the same things as we are doing. There are a lot of crappy teams below us, some of them will reach form and suddenly win three out of five, but then there's statistically impossible for all of them to do it at the same time. For every winner there's a loser, and I bet you a few of those teams will go on a shitty run. A lot of teams meet each other, some have incredibly tough games coming up and the clock is ticking. Many are looking at Sunderland at the moment, because they have reached some form and gotten out of the dreaded pit at 17th with 24 points. They have three wins in the last five, which is exactly what every team in that bracket wants right now, but those wins came against Fulham, Stoke and Newcastle. Then when everyone was counting on them to win against Hull at home, they lost 2-0. Now they are playing: Man City (a), Arsenal (a) and Liverpool (a) on the trot. Anyone care to give them much hope for those fixtures? And guess what, out of their remaining games they still have to play: Tottenham (a), Chelsea (a) and Manchester United (a). They also have to play Everton at home. Sure every team has to play everyone twice and surprises come out of nothing, they probably won't lose all of those games (although I wouldn't be too surprised!), but they are in big trouble. We for example are done with both Chelsea and Arsenal, luckily. We have a lot of games that can put some distance between us and the ones we are playing (and at the same time they can catch us) - but the only thing certain is that we have just the same chance of winning that game, and over time we will get something out of those games. We might lose at home to Fulham and Hull, but at the same time we can suddenly win away to Newcastle and Swansea. Last season I had a really bad feeling, right after Christmas I was kind of bracing myself for the worst. Then we went on a really good spell and clicked into gear, because we have some players capable of doing well on the pitch. This season I am gladly admitting we are still in the fight for relegation in terms of points, but I don't have that dark cloud in my head when I think about it. We are in front, it's always good to be in front. We have Benteke and he is gradually playing much better and finding the net again.

Everton for me, during Moyes' tenure consisted of a lot of players I really wanted to have at the Villa. Loyal servants of high quality as well as a lot of grifters every club has easier access to, but they didn't necessarily make them fight for top 6. Tim Cahill was picked up for 1.5M, Tim Howard cost 3M, Phil Neville 3.5M, Steven Pienaar 2M, Phil Jagielka 4M, of course Leighton Baines at 6M, Joleon Lescott 5M, Mikel Arteta 2M and so on. Marouane Fellaini was expensive at 15M, but he was always feared and coveted by most clubs when he was at Everton. Looks totally lost at United, but let's not forget he has played a total of eight games in the league for them. I guess it was Moyes who also brought in Seamus Coleman to Everton. He was basically working on the same type of budget Paul Lambert has now, and we see what kind of players a better manager can get into his team if the kit is spent properly. It also shows how huge of a step it is from managing a mid-table club with little pressure, as opposed to a top club demanding the trophy every season.

I can see the logic, but Moyes was very highly regarded before taking the Man United job. That was my idea when we hired Alex McLeish before anyone really knew we couldn't cope financially anymore, at least that was the only plausible explanation. Brainfuck with every Villa-fan on the planet, then there's always these naive bunch of superfans who gets behind the manager even though it goes against every logic, perform badly (of course) and lower expectations for the future. The next guy, in our case Paul Lambert, has gotten a lot of support even though his results would have gotten the sack at every other club. American management consultancy 101, probably had a team from BCG or McKinsey & Co. structure the whole thing I don't think United hired Moyes as the man between Ferguson and the next guy. However, I think this exact topic was up for discussion, you just don't replace someone like that in one season. The ideal person for such a game would be Jose Mourinho though. Everyone fears he is always going to be at a club for three years tops, which could have been the case at United and that's why he didn't get the job, but you could bet your ass he would have done a better job than Moyes thus far. Ferguson created a romantic legacy, something every club wants like with Wenger at Arsenal for example, but statistics show very few managers sustain the years and it was stupid from them to think the same club could do it twice in a row.

Away game against a very poor team, but one that can play some decent football out of the blue and they have lots of pressure to get a result. Without Ron Vlaar we have to play Nathan Baker and Ciaran Clark, who in my opinion are the weakest pairing in the entire league. Never get any confidence when I see them in the line-up If we lose this game we are only three points ahead of Cardiff, but if we win we will comfortably put them behind us with nine points which is a lot for a team like that. We are firmly in the relegation mix alongside all the other teams behind Southampton, so let's not think we are out of this thing. We have lots of winnable games left and then some very difficult ones, but I guess that goes for every single team down there. A run with Cardiff (1), Newcastle (0), Norwich (3), Man City (0), Chelsea (0), Stoke (1), Man Utd (0), Fulham (3), Crystal Palace (1), Southampton (1), Swansea (1), Hull (3) and Tottenham (0) will see us with 14 points and 41 points total, which I guess is more than enough this season. We can also get results from all of Cardiff, Newcastle, Stoke, Palace and Swansea (and lose points from the ones I have given us a win) so it will probably be enough no matter what. 13 games, 14 points. We have 1,08 points pr. game already so it all makes sense.

Of course, United have a manager that is employing the wrong tactical setup most games - but out of all the managers in the league, we have one that is doing the same each weekend and often even worse than Moyes IMO. We win some games when the other team are playing woefully or have failed to do their homework on us, but what I despise about Lambert and our team is our ability to look decent or miserable on any given day. No consistency, play a good game away to a decent side - then play atrociously against a crap side at home the next.