Isn't it nice

[LondonLax]

Next season will still have frustrations but I think we could at least have a season similar to West Ham's from last season.

The main thing is we finally have a settled summer with no manager change to worry about.

[BOF]

We might not have our best player from last year - and I don't think all are really acknowledging how important he was. 

 

The end of season was good, but the whole season points to another struggle. 9/10 your going to have at least one good run in a season (unless your woefully poor like Derby). Ours came at exactly the right moment and I do not underestimate (and I kept saying it at the time) how important it was we weren't actually cut a drift during that awful period when some of the clubs worst defeats were inflicted upon us. We deserved to be well adrift imo, but luckily there were some other equally poor teams that helped us out.

 

I think people are getting carried away with the run. Bar the Sunderland game, the wins (whilst they were wins) were pretty smash and grab as Stoke and Norwich as well as QPR looked like draws at best for long periods.

 

If we had spent most of the season mid-table and ended the season with a poor run, finishing 15th with 41 points would you be as optimistic?

 

Yes you could say we have a bit of momentum as the run came at the end, but 3 months of no football has to pass and as we are well aware, our good runs dont last for prolonged periods.

 

That's not me saying we will go down - I think we will improve, but I really do think the last couple of months have covered up a very very poor team over 38 games. Very poor. Forward steps are being made but there is an awful awful long way to go and those forward steps are not guaranteed to continue. Especially with the risks we seem intent on making in the transfer market (Though as I have said before - i am not necessarily against that).

Is that really your POV? I find it amazing that someone's posts could be that negative tbh.

We might not have our best player from last year - and I don't think all are really acknowledging how important he was.

Firstly and most importantly, he hasn't actually gone anywhere yet. And he might not. And even if he does, we get a shed load of dosh to go back into the side. He will leave on our terms if he leaves at all.

 

The end of season was good, but the whole season points to another struggle.

You really don't see the significance of the players improving towards the end of the season? It wasn't a co-incidence that they improved towards the end. It was them getting better together. That's not something that goes backwards. It wasn't just 'form'. That team are growing in front of us and some of us refuse to see it.

I think people are getting carried away with the run.

Again, it would be my opinion that some can't see what is happening.

 

If we had spent most of the season mid-table and ended the season with a poor run, finishing 15th with 41 points would you be as optimistic?

Auntie, stones, uncle. Your scenario didn't happen and it further shows how you aren't getting the significance of what did happen and why.

 

Forward steps are being made but there is an awful awful long way to go and those forward steps are not guaranteed to continue. Especially with the risks we seem intent on making in the transfer market (Though as I have said before - i am not necessarily against that).

This is the only bit I agree with. Yes there's a long way to go but we're getting there. There might be no guarantee in football but if you trust the man in charge then why not just enjoy the ride. I'm just genuinely baffled that people can be that pessimistic in what was, to me, a season which may have been difficult but which will stand us in good stead hopefully for years to come.

[Woodytom]

Yes that is really my POV BOF. Why would I post something that is not my opinion?

 

As I said with regards to Benteke - We 'MIGHT' not have our best player. 

 

I did see the team improving towards the end of the season. I also saw them improve in patches before becoming abysmal again. Once you have begun to improve it does not mean you are immune to playing poorly again. It is not as if it all clicked and became perfect. They played well and they beat some very poor teams in the process. There were still a lot of mistakes and in my mind, bar the Sunderland game it was far from convincing.

 

On the point of the team improving, it was largely based around the form of Benteke. We all saw how important is to us v Chelsea because we were lost without him. If he goes (IF) then he is going to be very hard to replace.

 

I do not understand why you think my view is negative? I said i think we will improve. And where you accused me of not seeing the team growing together, I put it out there that people are forgetting just how bad it was before it began to improve. It could not really get any worse.

 

But if you want to join the brigade of people who accuse me of being negative then thats fine. You are very much mistaken. I have not once called for Paul Lamberts head when many did. I have not once said I am not behind the plan. But I am not going to pretend that we are in a fine and dandy position where everything is positive yet if it is ok with you.

 

There is a bigger picture to the run at the end of the season in both ways. I see your point with regards the team growing but I am also aware of the fact that the team couldnt have been any less together before they began to improve.

[BOF]

Yes that is really my POV BOF. Why would I post something that is not my opinion?

It was just a rhetorical question. I wasn't questioning the integrity of the post. Call it incredulity. 

I did see the team improving towards the end of the season. I also saw them improve in patches before becoming abysmal again. Once you have begun to improve it does not mean you are immune to playing poorly again. It is not as if it all clicked and became perfect. They played well and they beat some very poor teams in the process. There were still a lot of mistakes and in my mind, bar the Sunderland game it was far from convincing.

Yes there'll be good games and bad games. But the trend of a young and improving team will be towards more consistently good performances, which is precisely what we saw from basically January onwards. Yes there was shite interspersed with that as they learned, but it gradually became less frequent as they learned from their mistakes.

 

On the point of the team improving, it was largely based around the form of Benteke. We all saw how important is to us v Chelsea because we were lost without him. If he goes (IF) then he is going to be very hard to replace.

I don't disagree, but he won't be impossible to replace. Lambert mightn't even choose to replace like with like. He'll have a lot of money to make that decision with though. As much as some might be underestimating the effect of losing Benteke, I think you are equally as guilty of not being able to see that it wouldn't be the end of the world either.

 

I do not understand why you think my view is negative? I said i think we will improve. And where you accused me of not seeing the team growing together, I put it out there that people are forgetting just how bad it was before it began to improve. It could not really get any worse.

Nah come on. You can't make a very negative post and sprinkle it with the odd nod towards positivity and then claim those nods are the main thrust of the post. If you can't see why some might see your post as negative then I can't help you there, only to say that it really is.

 

But if you want to join the brigade of people who accuse me of being negative then thats fine. You are very much mistaken. I have not once called for Paul Lamberts head when many did. I have not once said I am not behind the plan. But I am not going to pretend that we are in a fine and dandy position where everything is positive yet if it is ok with you.

No need to be like that. I'm not part of a brigade and if you'll note, I called your POST negative, not the poster. I will comment on a post and I'll do it honestly. This is a discussion that I ain't making personal. You're now trying to put me in a 'brigade'

 

There is a bigger picture to the run at the end of the season in both ways. I see your point with regards the team growing but I am also aware of the fact that the team couldnt have been any less together before they began to improve.

Why does it matter how shite they were in September? Were you a good driver when you were 4 years old? It's an exaggeration maybe, but the logic is the same. "Oh they might be good now, but but once upon a time they weren't, and I choose to remember the past, not the present." That's the logic (and you're not the only one btw) that just tires me out.

[Woodytom]

Ok BOF, your post came across as a bit of an attack. I obviously read it wrong and I was quite surprised because I did think it was a bit out of character. 

 

With regards the negativity of my post - I genuinely don't see it as that. I am looking forward to the season as much as the next guy but like always with Villa - I have my fears. Over the past 20 years I have learn't not too expect too much. That's not a negative stance just merely a realistic observation.

 

That brings me nicely onto thinking about the past - as you quite fairly ask - Why? Simply because that is the way I think I suppose. I had a similar discussion with Rob182 with regards Benteke. I am now at a position where its only good news with regards to Benteke, because I am that prepared for his sale - based on past best player sales and not thinking too much about the present/future. There will be a lot of disappointed and angry people should he go with them seemingly fallen for the same PR rubbish that they have done in the PAST.

 

And that's how I go through life when I think about it. I tend to think of the worst case scenario and anything else (usually the outcome FWIW) is a bonus. Quite an odd way to live your life I suppose and I have no doubt it holds me back in some areas - but its just the way I am. 

[BOF]

Good repsonse. All fair enough

[StefanAVFC]

 

 

Im more positive than the last few seasons but supporting Villa seems to be a cycle. A few years decent, A few years awful. We are due a few good years but I have little confidence we can maintain it for a prolonged period of time.

 

Question -

 

Were people more optimistic when Lerner first joined than they are now?

 

It really is easy to get carried away with a few decent results. Im a fan of the plan. I think its commendable. But I fear another struggle next season.

That's the way it works for pretty much most teams.

 

What makes you fear another "struggle" next season? I certainly don't think we'll be competing for the top 4 or anything but on the evidence of the end of last season I don't see any reason the next season will be a struggle.

 

 

 

I think people are getting carried away with the run. Bar the Sunderland game, the wins (whilst they were wins) were pretty smash and grab as Stoke and Norwich as well as QPR looked like draws at best for long periods.

 

 

 

What? We destroyed Stoke. It looked like a draw for around 10 minutes after we'd missed chance after chance.

QPR? First half, we were poor but fully deserved the win after the 2nd half.

Norwich? Very even game.

 

Absolutely scandalous to say we smashed and grabbed those 3 wins and I agree with BOF that your POST was extremely negative, summed up by the sentence I have quoted.

Edited June 7, 2013 by StefanAVFC

[briny_ear]

This is a discussion that won't have many meaningful reference points until we see how premier league squads are shaping up in August and, more realistically, have reached around the end of November next season so we see how the squads have hit the ground. 

 

Certainly don't see many grounds at the moment for believing we will do any better than comfortably occupy the lower half of the table.

 

But, as I say, it is absurdly early to start making predictions.

[Woodytom]

 

 

 

Im more positive than the last few seasons but supporting Villa seems to be a cycle. A few years decent, A few years awful. We are due a few good years but I have little confidence we can maintain it for a prolonged period of time.

 

Question -

 

Were people more optimistic when Lerner first joined than they are now?

 

It really is easy to get carried away with a few decent results. Im a fan of the plan. I think its commendable. But I fear another struggle next season.

That's the way it works for pretty much most teams.

 

What makes you fear another "struggle" next season? I certainly don't think we'll be competing for the top 4 or anything but on the evidence of the end of last season I don't see any reason the next season will be a struggle.

 

 

 

I think people are getting carried away with the run. Bar the Sunderland game, the wins (whilst they were wins) were pretty smash and grab as Stoke and Norwich as well as QPR looked like draws at best for long periods.

 

 

 

What? We destroyed Stoke. It looked like a draw for around 10 minutes after we'd missed chance after chance.

QPR? First half, we were poor but fully deserved the win after the 2nd half.

Norwich? Very even game.

 

Absolutely scandalous to say we smashed and grabbed those 3 wins and I agree with BOF that your POST was extremely negative, summed up by the sentence I have quoted.

 

 

 

I was at the Stoke game. We were by far the better team until the hour make and then looked as lost as Stoke. it looked like we needed a miracle to win after they scored - We got it.

 

QPR could have been 4 up by the time we scored.

 

Norwich was a last minute winner and we were lucky to to concede right at the death.

 

All ifs and buts and Im obv pleased it went our way but I am just illustrating how close it was to a different end of season, and why it is dangerous to get over positive.

[StefanAVFC]

 

 

 

 

Im more positive than the last few seasons but supporting Villa seems to be a cycle. A few years decent, A few years awful. We are due a few good years but I have little confidence we can maintain it for a prolonged period of time.

 

Question -

 

Were people more optimistic when Lerner first joined than they are now?

 

It really is easy to get carried away with a few decent results. Im a fan of the plan. I think its commendable. But I fear another struggle next season.

That's the way it works for pretty much most teams.

 

What makes you fear another "struggle" next season? I certainly don't think we'll be competing for the top 4 or anything but on the evidence of the end of last season I don't see any reason the next season will be a struggle.

 

 

 

I think people are getting carried away with the run. Bar the Sunderland game, the wins (whilst they were wins) were pretty smash and grab as Stoke and Norwich as well as QPR looked like draws at best for long periods.

 

 

 

What? We destroyed Stoke. It looked like a draw for around 10 minutes after we'd missed chance after chance.

QPR? First half, we were poor but fully deserved the win after the 2nd half.

Norwich? Very even game.

 

Absolutely scandalous to say we smashed and grabbed those 3 wins and I agree with BOF that your POST was extremely negative, summed up by the sentence I have quoted.

 

 

 

I was at the Stoke game. We were by far the better team until the hour make and then looked as lost as Stoke. it looked like we needed a miracle to win after they scored - We got it.

 

QPR could have been 4 up by the time we scored.

 

Norwich was a last minute winner and we were lucky to to concede right at the death.

 

All ifs and buts and Im obv pleased it went our way but I am just illustrating how close it was to a different end of season, and why it is dangerous to get over positive.

 

As was I. Why does that make your point any more valid? If we were the better team for 60 minutes, how in any way, shape or form was it a smash and grab?

 

Yes, but they weren't. And we were comfortably the better team in the 2nd half, which is far more important than being the better team in the 1st. Again, to suggest it was a smash and grab is silly.

 

And Norwich was an even game. Not a smash and grab.

 

That was my only point, and nothing you have said in response leads me to believe you actually can't honestly think we smashed and grabbed those 3 wins. So why the bigging up of other teams and the putting down of us? It makes no sense.

[Woodytom]

By smash and grab I mean games that could have quite easily gone the other way. Probably not the best term to use - in fact probably the wrong one. 

 

Me being at the Stoke game has no meaning - I was just saying.

 

I dont see me bigging up any team?

[Rob182]

I am now at a position where its only good news with regards to Benteke, because I am that prepared for his sale - based on past best player sales and not thinking too much about the present/future. There will be a lot of disappointed and angry people should he go with them seemingly fallen for the same PR rubbish that they have done in the PAST.

In your opinion, Tom. Personally, if Benteke is sold, I won't be angry or disappointed. I'll be positive about where the Benteke-money is spent. I imagine others will be similarly positive.

[AvfcTheObsession]

I think we need to be very cautious with this optimism for next season.

 

This time last year people thought Lambert was the saviour. The fact is we still have a very mediocre (at best) squad, and are likely to be losing our best player.

 

We will only have limited transfer funds and wages available to spend on replacing our best player should he go and to improve our squad which lacks quality in the majority of areas.

[StefanAVFC]

By smash and grab I mean games that could have quite easily gone the other way. Probably not the best term to use - in fact probably the wrong one. 

 

Me being at the Stoke game has no meaning - I was just saying.

 

I dont see me bigging up any team?

 

It is completely the wrong term. And that isn't me being pedantic.

 

Why say it though? It has no bearing on an argument either way and better fan rhetoric is frowned upon so I see no reason for it to be mentioned.

 

Well, now we've cleared up you don't mean 'smash and grab' then it reads differently.

Edited June 7, 2013 by StefanAVFC