Ghost_of_Pongo_Waring Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Norwich made 6 changes for the cup game I believe? Norwich made three changes from the side that had won a swansea, we made four changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 No I can quite clearly argue. Like I said we currently average less points a game than we did for the whole of last season. We score less and concede more. How you can ignore than is beyond me. These comparisons would be fairer at the end of the season. McLeish had 38 league games in charge where as Lambert's only had 19 so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I don't think you can call +3- points an improvement in any way. I do - I call it a 3 point improvement over the same time period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 These comparisons would be fairer at the end of the season. McLeish had 38 league games in charge where as Lambert's only had 19 so far. McL's second half of last season returned .78pts per game with the average return getting worse PL's first half of the season returned .94pts per game with the average return trending upwards Two comparable periods directly following one another - one in which the trend of points return was getting worse and one where the trend for points return is getting better No one is saying that we are great - it is obvious from the last two performances that we are not, but we have started this season better than we finished last season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 It just shows how poor we are when those that keep banging on about how much better things are have to select certain periods to suit their argument. Quite funny really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 It just shows how poor we are when those that keep banging on about how much better things are have to select certain periods to suit their argument. Quite funny really. Yes what a idiot I am choosing a continuous 12 month period to make a comparision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KjParton Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 When you put 4 past our B side (in effect it was!) in the LC game I was not surprised one bit, You do chat some shite. Your B side? If that was your B side and you missed important players, so did we. We had no Guzan, No Vlaar, No westwood. We effectively sided as much a B team as you did. In fairness we spanked you that night. You got hammered fair and square. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Yes what a idiot I am choosing a continuous 12 month period to make a comparision VillaCas (Clutching at straws???), It's not a continuous period, though, is it!? It's TWO periods straddling a summer transfer window/pre-season. The first part of the season is never the same as the last: teams either fight or give up in their battle for relegation; others approach the season end already on their summer holidays; others have one last push for Europe/the title. Injuries set in/suspension take their toll/legs become more weary. If we were Wigan fans, and let's say that Martinez had moved on, would it be fair to compare his last 19 games with a new managers first 19!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 The first part of the season is never the same as the last: teams either fight or give up in their battle for relegation; others approach the season end already on their summer holidays; others have one last push for Europe/the title. Injuries set in/suspension take their toll/legs become more weary. Exactly. And if the first 19 games under Mcleish were worse they'd be using that. It's quite pathetic the lengths some go to try and blindly stick to something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Yes what a idiot I am choosing a continuous 12 month period to make a comparision Based on your theory of it being acceptable to compare games from 2 different seasons as a benchmark for progress can this be equally applied to the fans of Bolton, Blackburn and Wolves to see if their respective teams have made progress in the first 19 games of this season compared to the last 19 games of last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Exactly. And if the first 19 games under Mcleish were worse they'd be using that. It's quite pathetic the lengths some go to try and blindly stick to something. And if McLeish's last 19 games were better than Lambert's first 19 games it would suddenly be ok to compare them. See, I can do this too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Well no because I'm not trying to select a certain period am I. Keep trying though. Does it not speak volumes that there is a grand total of two of you who are actually trying to use those facts? Not surprised though given you've argued the facts suggest we shouldn't worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 (edited) I tend to go on what i see in front of me and at the moment i do not see any real improvement. In fact i never felt under the ginger one that we'd concede eight. However, under Lambert i can see us being hammered time and time again when we play against the top teams. I do not see us scoring many either in the Premiership under Lambert. Offensively we are worse than when the ginger one brought in Keane. We don't play with wingers who could be the supply line to Benteke or Bent, or indeed both. Instead Lambert has us trying to play through the middle with players who simply aren't good enough to play that way and consequently we are in a kind of 'no mans land' not being able to do one thing or the other well enough. We have Bent and Benteke who i still believe would thrive on crosses. Lambert needs to change it and he needs to do it soon. Either bring in two wingers to supply the crosses i have spoken of and the DM to give our defence protection, or, if he wants to persist with playing through the middle, then we must find the creative midfielder to do that. We simply aren't playing to our strengths. What other manager in the Premiership who had the embarrassment of riches that we have up front would deny the correct means of service for both to score more? Lambert needs to admit to himself first that his formation and tactics aren't working and then set about putting those mistakes right! Edited December 28, 2012 by Morpheus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Lambert needs to admit to himself first that his formation and tactics aren't working and then set about putting those mistakes right! What odds that Lambert makes an admission of mistake before certain posters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Dont feed Wiz he is just posting for a bite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KjParton Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 (edited) I just think there are those that are trying to get behind the manager and the team, and those that just aren't at the moment. I fall under the first category. I can bet there are many others also falling under the first category. Those like Mantis and VillaCas are doing this. Trying to get some support into the club, trying to stop all the negative talk because its not good for the club or the fans. Edited December 28, 2012 by KjParton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I just think there are those that are trying to get behind the manager and the team, and those that just aren't at the moment. I fall under the first category. I can bet there are many others also falling under the first category. Those like Mantis and VillaCas are doing this. Trying to get some support into the club, trying to stop all the negative talk because its not good for the club or the fans. Everyone wants to support the club. Some do it through their season ticket and others who are unable to get to the games pay their cable subscription or go to the pub whenever our games are televised. One does not make a better supporter than the other and this is how we support our team. That however should not get in the way of objective criticism. Fans have as much right to criticize as they do to support their team. Bias can however infiltrate both critique and support and it is a fine line for both. I criticize more than most because my patience is on the wane due to where we have been in the last two and a half seasons and have been accused of posting for effect. While i have never consciously posted for effect i may have sub consciously over stepped the line and shown bias towards my current position. By the same token both posters you mention have shown bias towards their position even though the facts may suggest otherwise and consequently both sides of the debate have become frustrated at each other's blind faith if you will. Whether that is good for the club or not is open to question but it is however part of being a fan of any club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onje_villa Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I'm definitely firmly behind Lambert but Morpheus and Papillon before him make a lot of good points. I must admit, Lambert's idea of setting the ball rolling on a new forward-thinking way of playing the game had me very excited. Even when we were successful under MON I just hated watching us mindlessly hoof the ball up the pitch. However you could argue that the short-term needs to be mixed effectively with the long-term else we may drop. Maybe Lambert's just got more balls than us though and he's not going to change his outlook despite the pressure cranking up. If that's the case, good on him and it would be great if at the end of the season, we all realize he knew what he was doing all along. Something about the man gives me huge confidence in him. All that said, the short-term is pretty bleak and you don't just worry about relegation when you're in it, you worry about it when you're hovering near it consistently. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbr600rr Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 PL v AMC! point here or their.. the common trend is the players on the pitch,they are simply not good enough, villa have relied to much on the development/youth set up, the players that have come through are good but just not good enough,the teams need big investment & fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 VillaCas (Clutching at straws???), It's not a continuous period, though, is it!? It's TWO periods straddling a summer transfer window/pre-season. Hilarious Why use statistics when you can just spout emotive, unsubstantiated rubbish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts