Houllier: Back him or sack him?

[snowychap]

Or people who don't fly off the handle after a game didn't go their way and take time to calm down and think things through before making their decision.

Just because people have a different opinion to you doesn't mean they don't support the Villa Fran, don't be so small minded.

And just because people have a different opinion to you does not necessarily mean that they flew 'off the handle after a game didn't go their way' or didn't think things through, does it?

[fran_villa]

Yes obv visiting fans who find our predicament amusing.

yep, thats what i think. i people want him here thats fair enough, i think there is fans coming on the site to boost his numbers though,may not even be sha fans.

Well Pires was voted man of the match against Man City on here so polls are not always 100% accurate!!

No they aren't, im not having a cheap dig at the fans that like GH or for whatever reason they think he should be here, i'm just saying that i thin there is fans coming on and messing with the results.

[Ginko]

Or people who don't fly off the handle after a game didn't go their way and take time to calm down and think things through before making their decision.

Just because people have a different opinion to you doesn't mean they don't support the Villa Fran, don't be so small minded.

And just because people have a different opinion to you does not necessarily mean that they flew 'off the handle after a game didn't go their way' or didn't think things through, does it?

Nope quite right, tell me where I said the words 'all people who voted to sack Houllier haven't thought things through', please?

After teh Sunderland game I came to VT (which was understandably ram-packed), and saw this poll. I personally didn't know how I felt, and honestly now I still don't. I'm in two minds, I can see why people want him out, I can see why people want him to stay.

I voted in the end to back him primarily because I think our squad is seriously lacking in quality and if we kick him out now we will have gone another transfer window without any business. Whether or not Houllier gets any quality in is another thing altogether but at the moment I personally would rather we took the risk of letting him get some new blood in than firing him, not getting anyone in apart from a new manager from a list of candidates in which I don't see any particularly outstanding individuals at the moment.

If people took time to think things through and still decided to vote sack him, I have no qualms with that, I was just making the point that just because people are backing Houllier doesn't mean we don't support the team.

[fran_villa]

Back him. I can't help but blame the players - whoever caused trouble and difficulty resisting any hope of Houllier having a positive influence on the club are a disgrace to me. They get paid an enormous amount of money and are employed by the club, to be run by this manager. It is too easy to blame the manager. I have very little respect for footballers and to look at them at Villa now, and those that play for England, and all the other clearing in the woods footballers around the world causing disgraces with their ego's, it is not hard for me to side with a manager who has the track record and experience that Houllier has.

I think it's a shame how much negativity exists at Villa, and especially all the disgraceful things that get said about the manager - because the abuse is shameful too, and a sad reflection on us. It's not a good situation, granted, and Houllier has to sort this out and get it right but the players do too. Sacking him now feels like a risk just as much as backing him. The problems existed before Houllier came, they are not from Houllier - he just hasn't managed to sort them out, which is admittedly worrying. We might have lost that Sunderland game last season, I think it was rather hopeful for everyone to expect things to suddenly become rosy after the Chelsea result (which admittedly looks less impressive now Wolves beat them). I don't know. It's bad that Heskey is going to be suspended. The team were ok against Sunderland, who are a decent team now, and full of confidence. I don't like this situation but I think this is a 'we're all in it together' situation now and we are going to have to trust the manager and get behind the team.

People didnt think things would be rosy after that Chelsea game, but they thought that there would have been a bit more fight, and the tactics from GH would have been a little bit better. GH hasn't helped himself at all since he's got here. from the time he walked into this club he said we are a top 8 to 12 club when we had infact finished 6th for the last three seasons. he's bashed his players, has bigged up Liverpool to the press. has managed to turn the club on its head sucking evey bit of confidance out of the playng staff and right down to the fans. we all here that its the playing staffs fault, that it was hapening under MON also, i think thats the biggest load of BS tbh.

[snowychap]

Nope quite right, tell me where I said the words 'all people who voted to sack Houllier haven't thought things through', please?

Well if you genuinely weren't trying to imply that those who took a different view to you were not flying off the handle, reacting to one result and not thinking things through then you ought to be more careful about how you word things.

[fran_villa]

Or people who don't fly off the handle after a game didn't go their way and take time to calm down and think things through before making their decision.

Just because people have a different opinion to you doesn't mean they don't support the Villa Fran, don't be so small minded.

And just because people have a different opinion to you does not necessarily mean that they flew 'off the handle after a game didn't go their way' or didn't think things through, does it?

Nope quite right, tell me where I said the words 'all people who voted to sack Houllier haven't thought things through', please?

After teh Sunderland game I came to VT (which was understandably ram-packed), and saw this poll. I personally didn't know how I felt, and honestly now I still don't. I'm in two minds, I can see why people want him out, I can see why people want him to stay.

I voted in the end to back him primarily because I think our squad is seriously lacking in quality

this same sqaud that got us to 6th last season and to a cup final, alright we lost Milner but this squad is still good enough to be top half. this situation is down to the owner and the manager imo, another manager right now would be better than signing players.if he we sacked him and a new manager was appointed straight away we still could bring in one or two faces that the new man would want but i honestly think the best thing to do is appoint a new man, if GH was such a good manager anyway how come players arent jumping to his defence all the time, its because he's a poor man manager and they dont want to play for him..

[praisedmambo]

Back him. I can't help but blame the players - whoever caused trouble and difficulty resisting any hope of Houllier having a positive influence on the club are a disgrace to me. They get paid an enormous amount of money and are employed by the club, to be run by this manager. It is too easy to blame the manager. I have very little respect for footballers and to look at them at Villa now, and those that play for England, and all the other clearing in the woods footballers around the world causing disgraces with their ego's, it is not hard for me to side with a manager who has the track record and experience that Houllier has.

I think it's a shame how much negativity exists at Villa, and especially all the disgraceful things that get said about the manager - because the abuse is shameful too, and a sad reflection on us. It's not a good situation, granted, and Houllier has to sort this out and get it right but the players do too. Sacking him now feels like a risk just as much as backing him. The problems existed before Houllier came, they are not from Houllier - he just hasn't managed to sort them out, which is admittedly worrying. We might have lost that Sunderland game last season, I think it was rather hopeful for everyone to expect things to suddenly become rosy after the Chelsea result (which admittedly looks less impressive now Wolves beat them). I don't know. It's bad that Heskey is going to be suspended. The team were ok against Sunderland, who are a decent team now, and full of confidence. I don't like this situation but I think this is a 'we're all in it together' situation now and we are going to have to trust the manager and get behind the team.

People didnt think things would be rosy after that Chelsea game, but they thought that there would have been a bit more fight, and the tactics from GH would have been a little bit better. GH hasn't helped himself at all since he's got here. from the time he walked into this club he said we are a top 8 to 12 club when we had infact finished 6th for the last three seasons. he's bashed his players, has bigged up Liverpool to the press. has managed to turn the club on its head sucking evey bit of confidance out of the playng staff and right down to the fans. we all here that its the playing staffs fault, that it was hapening under MON also, i think thats the biggest load of BS tbh.

I honestly think that some of your problems with him are a bit sensational. I think you are over-reacting but I'm not trying to rile you and respect that it is your opinion. I suppose that just highlights the two different sides of the argument. I'm not as convinced as I have been, I'm more wary of the situation anyway but I agree with what Ginko said about the transfer window. I don't think the squad is good enough, especially now that we are in trouble and I don't want to risk losing another window. Plus, the thought of Big Sam coming in makes me feel sad, although I'm sure he would have a good chance of getting us out of trouble - it's life afterwards with no hope of good football that bothers me. Having said that I clearly still believe that Houllier can do it right here and if that happens with this manager then the future can be exciting once more, because once his changes start to kick in then I think we have real potential.

[fran_villa]

Back him. I can't help but blame the players - whoever caused trouble and difficulty resisting any hope of Houllier having a positive influence on the club are a disgrace to me. They get paid an enormous amount of money and are employed by the club, to be run by this manager. It is too easy to blame the manager. I have very little respect for footballers and to look at them at Villa now, and those that play for England, and all the other clearing in the woods footballers around the world causing disgraces with their ego's, it is not hard for me to side with a manager who has the track record and experience that Houllier has.

I think it's a shame how much negativity exists at Villa, and especially all the disgraceful things that get said about the manager - because the abuse is shameful too, and a sad reflection on us. It's not a good situation, granted, and Houllier has to sort this out and get it right but the players do too. Sacking him now feels like a risk just as much as backing him. The problems existed before Houllier came, they are not from Houllier - he just hasn't managed to sort them out, which is admittedly worrying. We might have lost that Sunderland game last season, I think it was rather hopeful for everyone to expect things to suddenly become rosy after the Chelsea result (which admittedly looks less impressive now Wolves beat them). I don't know. It's bad that Heskey is going to be suspended. The team were ok against Sunderland, who are a decent team now, and full of confidence. I don't like this situation but I think this is a 'we're all in it together' situation now and we are going to have to trust the manager and get behind the team.

People didnt think things would be rosy after that Chelsea game, but they thought that there would have been a bit more fight, and the tactics from GH would have been a little bit better. GH hasn't helped himself at all since he's got here. from the time he walked into this club he said we are a top 8 to 12 club when we had infact finished 6th for the last three seasons. he's bashed his players, has bigged up Liverpool to the press. has managed to turn the club on its head sucking evey bit of confidance out of the playng staff and right down to the fans. we all here that its the playing staffs fault, that it was hapening under MON also, i think thats the biggest load of BS tbh.

I honestly think that some of your problems with him are a bit sensational. I think you are over-reacting but I'm not trying to rile you and respect that it is your opinion. I suppose that just highlights the two different sides of the argument. I'm not as convinced as I have been, I'm more wary of the situation anyway but I agree with what Ginko said about the transfer window. I don't think the squad is good enough, especially now that we are in trouble and I don't want to risk losing another window. Plus, the thought of Big Sam coming in makes me feel sad, although I'm sure he would have a good chance of getting us out of trouble - it's life afterwards with no hope of good football that bothers me. Having said that I clearly still believe that Houllier can do it right here and if that happens with this manager then the future can be exciting once more, because once his changes start to kick in then I think we have real potential.

thats your opinion and i respect that, i honestly think there is enough quality in this squad to get us out of this mess, i just dont think we have the right man in charge to get the best out of the squad that he has. eve ngoing by the players that he has so far tried to bring in, they really aren't the type to be in a relegation fight imo, they are young and inexperienced, even the man himself is inexperienced when it comes to being this far down..

[Ginko]

Nope quite right, tell me where I said the words 'all people who voted to sack Houllier haven't thought things through', please?

Well if you genuinely weren't trying to imply that those who took a different view to you were not flying off the handle, reacting to one result and not thinking things through then you ought to be more careful about how you word things.

The original quote that was commented on was about how there has been an increase in support for Houllier recently, i.e a day or two after the Sunderland game so it was in direct reference to those people who had voted late and had voted pro-Houllier.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Houllier got most of his 'sack him' votes directly after the Sunderland game since I'm sure most of us were seething with the result.

Perhaps the way I worded my response wasn't perfect. I certainly didn't mean to imply that EVERY person who voted against Houllier hadn't thought things through. People think differently and therefore have different opinions, I respect that, but at the same time whereas I'm far from convinced about Houllier, I am leaning more towards backing him, so naturally when someone accuses me of being a 'Sty fan', I'm not happy.

And in response to you Fran, I personally think we over-achieved with MON and the squad he built. I also think we are under-achieving now, I think with our squad we should be good enough to stay up, but I didn't ever have much confidence in it to get a top 4 spot. That's just my opinion though.

[snowychap]

Perhaps the way I worded my response wasn't perfect. I certainly didn't mean to imply that EVERY person who voted against Houllier hadn't thought things through.

Fair enough. Even if you didn't mean every, it would still appear that you thought it was an important factor for more than just one or two.

... at the same time whereas I'm far from convinced about Houllier, I am leaning more towards backing him, so naturally when someone accuses me of being a 'Sty fan', I'm not happy.

I think it's more than understandable for you to feel that way.

I think Gringo's original point about a change in voting pattern was interesting and I'm not convinced it is answered just by talking about people who had calmed down and reflected.

[praisedmambo]

Back him. I can't help but blame the players - whoever caused trouble and difficulty resisting any hope of Houllier having a positive influence on the club are a disgrace to me. They get paid an enormous amount of money and are employed by the club, to be run by this manager. It is too easy to blame the manager. I have very little respect for footballers and to look at them at Villa now, and those that play for England, and all the other clearing in the woods footballers around the world causing disgraces with their ego's, it is not hard for me to side with a manager who has the track record and experience that Houllier has.

I think it's a shame how much negativity exists at Villa, and especially all the disgraceful things that get said about the manager - because the abuse is shameful too, and a sad reflection on us. It's not a good situation, granted, and Houllier has to sort this out and get it right but the players do too. Sacking him now feels like a risk just as much as backing him. The problems existed before Houllier came, they are not from Houllier - he just hasn't managed to sort them out, which is admittedly worrying. We might have lost that Sunderland game last season, I think it was rather hopeful for everyone to expect things to suddenly become rosy after the Chelsea result (which admittedly looks less impressive now Wolves beat them). I don't know. It's bad that Heskey is going to be suspended. The team were ok against Sunderland, who are a decent team now, and full of confidence. I don't like this situation but I think this is a 'we're all in it together' situation now and we are going to have to trust the manager and get behind the team.

People didnt think things would be rosy after that Chelsea game, but they thought that there would have been a bit more fight, and the tactics from GH would have been a little bit better. GH hasn't helped himself at all since he's got here. from the time he walked into this club he said we are a top 8 to 12 club when we had infact finished 6th for the last three seasons. he's bashed his players, has bigged up Liverpool to the press. has managed to turn the club on its head sucking evey bit of confidance out of the playng staff and right down to the fans. we all here that its the playing staffs fault, that it was hapening under MON also, i think thats the biggest load of BS tbh.

I honestly think that some of your problems with him are a bit sensational. I think you are over-reacting but I'm not trying to rile you and respect that it is your opinion. I suppose that just highlights the two different sides of the argument. I'm not as convinced as I have been, I'm more wary of the situation anyway but I agree with what Ginko said about the transfer window. I don't think the squad is good enough, especially now that we are in trouble and I don't want to risk losing another window. Plus, the thought of Big Sam coming in makes me feel sad, although I'm sure he would have a good chance of getting us out of trouble - it's life afterwards with no hope of good football that bothers me. Having said that I clearly still believe that Houllier can do it right here and if that happens with this manager then the future can be exciting once more, because once his changes start to kick in then I think we have real potential.

thats your opinion and i respect that, i honestly think there is enough quality in this squad to get us out of this mess, i just dont think we have the right man in charge to get the best out of the squad that he has. eve ngoing by the players that he has so far tried to bring in, they really aren't the type to be in a relegation fight imo, they are young and inexperienced, even the man himself is inexperienced when it comes to being this far down..

If I have a concern, then that is it: that Houllier is inexperienced with a relegation battle. Most of the other managers around us are the exact opposite. I still have faith in Houllier but I admit my faith involves the desperate hope that we sort this situation out and that once we are on steady ground we would really kick on, which I think would have been the case if he had come to Villa early last summer. MON is famous for making the most out of what he had and not many managers have that magic touch he had at Villa and at Leicester, so I think the actually quality of the squad he assembled was a bit suspect, and that is what is getting found out now. The timing of his departure was devastating. So, I do think Houllier was/is the right man but the situation is...intimidating. I know it is impossible and stupid but I would give Houllier a holiday and have big Sam in to keep us up, and then bring Houllier back to do the good he should be doing when there is no relegation battle and a full summer to implement his plans. That is clearly ludicrous but it sums up Houllier's pro's and con's for me in him being at the club - I think he could ultimately really make us progress with his contacts and in the development of a better style of football.

So I hold out for that future, but it would clearly be devastating to my vision if we began next season in the championship. I still back Houllier because, despite the contrasting opinions of others, I think he is no fool. Who am I to criticize the more dubious elements of his style? Just a supporter. I believe he knows how to run a football club much better than me. Hence I side with him before any player. I've heard the argument against him over and over and, in my opinion, there is a lot said against him that doesn't really stand up under scrutiny - once the heresay is out of the way

[fran_villa]

Nope quite right, tell me where I said the words 'all people who voted to sack Houllier haven't thought things through', please?

Well if you genuinely weren't trying to imply that those who took a different view to you were not flying off the handle, reacting to one result and not thinking things through then you ought to be more careful about how you word things.

The original quote that was commented on was about how there has been an increase in support for Houllier recently, i.e a day or two after the Sunderland game so it was in direct reference to those people who had voted late and had voted pro-Houllier.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Houllier got most of his 'sack him' votes directly after the Sunderland game since I'm sure most of us were seething with the result.

Perhaps the way I worded my response wasn't perfect. I certainly didn't mean to imply that EVERY person who voted against Houllier hadn't thought things through. People think differently and therefore have different opinions, I respect that, but at the same time whereas I'm far from convinced about Houllier, I am leaning more towards backing him, so naturally when someone accuses me of being a 'Sty fan', I'm not happy.

And in response to you Fran, I personally think we over-achieved with MON and the squad he built. I also think we are under-achieving now, I think with our squad we should be good enough to stay up, but I didn't ever have much confidence in it to get a top 4 spot. That's just my opinion though.

I wasn't calling you or any other Villa fans Sty fans.i was just saying that i think some Sha fans come on this site to poke fun. i have been called the same on this site for having a differant opinion and it pissed me off.

As for the squad, im with that i nver thought it was good enough to be top 4, i honestly think we should be around 10th to 6th with this team. ok with a change in manager you could well expect to be lower as slight changes are made. but GH has came in and mixed it up to much imo. he has tried to turn the whole way of thinking and playing on its head. to much to soon for these players.

[David-Copenhagen]

this same sqaud that got us to 6th last season and to a cup final, alright we lost Milner but this squad is still good enough to be top half. ...........

That is true based on the fact that we did come in 6 place last year - but how did the team play in the last half of the season? We played some of the worst football and barely scrapped home 6 place.

We have taken that form with us into this year and then had a lot of injuries. Maybe the squad is just not so good after all??

[LondonLax]

Am I still on Villa talk?

It seems some reasonable and level headed debate has broken out amidst all the chaos.

:confused:

[fran_villa]

Back him. I can't help but blame the players - whoever caused trouble and difficulty resisting any hope of Houllier having a positive influence on the club are a disgrace to me. They get paid an enormous amount of money and are employed by the club, to be run by this manager. It is too easy to blame the manager. I have very little respect for footballers and to look at them at Villa now, and those that play for England, and all the other clearing in the woods footballers around the world causing disgraces with their ego's, it is not hard for me to side with a manager who has the track record and experience that Houllier has.

I think it's a shame how much negativity exists at Villa, and especially all the disgraceful things that get said about the manager - because the abuse is shameful too, and a sad reflection on us. It's not a good situation, granted, and Houllier has to sort this out and get it right but the players do too. Sacking him now feels like a risk just as much as backing him. The problems existed before Houllier came, they are not from Houllier - he just hasn't managed to sort them out, which is admittedly worrying. We might have lost that Sunderland game last season, I think it was rather hopeful for everyone to expect things to suddenly become rosy after the Chelsea result (which admittedly looks less impressive now Wolves beat them). I don't know. It's bad that Heskey is going to be suspended. The team were ok against Sunderland, who are a decent team now, and full of confidence. I don't like this situation but I think this is a 'we're all in it together' situation now and we are going to have to trust the manager and get behind the team.

People didnt think things would be rosy after that Chelsea game, but they thought that there would have been a bit more fight, and the tactics from GH would have been a little bit better. GH hasn't helped himself at all since he's got here. from the time he walked into this club he said we are a top 8 to 12 club when we had infact finished 6th for the last three seasons. he's bashed his players, has bigged up Liverpool to the press. has managed to turn the club on its head sucking evey bit of confidance out of the playng staff and right down to the fans. we all here that its the playing staffs fault, that it was hapening under MON also, i think thats the biggest load of BS tbh.

I honestly think that some of your problems with him are a bit sensational. I think you are over-reacting but I'm not trying to rile you and respect that it is your opinion. I suppose that just highlights the two different sides of the argument. I'm not as convinced as I have been, I'm more wary of the situation anyway but I agree with what Ginko said about the transfer window. I don't think the squad is good enough, especially now that we are in trouble and I don't want to risk losing another window. Plus, the thought of Big Sam coming in makes me feel sad, although I'm sure he would have a good chance of getting us out of trouble - it's life afterwards with no hope of good football that bothers me. Having said that I clearly still believe that Houllier can do it right here and if that happens with this manager then the future can be exciting once more, because once his changes start to kick in then I think we have real potential.

thats your opinion and i respect that, i honestly think there is enough quality in this squad to get us out of this mess, i just dont think we have the right man in charge to get the best out of the squad that he has. eve ngoing by the players that he has so far tried to bring in, they really aren't the type to be in a relegation fight imo, they are young and inexperienced, even the man himself is inexperienced when it comes to being this far down..

If I have a concern, then that is it: that Houllier is inexperienced with a relegation battle. Most of the other managers around us are the exact opposite. I still have faith in Houllier but I admit my faith involves the desperate hope that we sort this situation out and that once we are on steady ground we would really kick on, which I think would have been the case if he had come to Villa early last summer. MON is famous for making the most out of what he had and not many managers have that magic touch he had at Villa and at Leicester, so I think the actually quality of the squad he assembled was a bit suspect, and that is what is getting found out now. The timing of his departure was devastating. So, I do think Houllier was/is the right man but the situation is...intimidating. I know it is impossible and stupid but I would give Houllier a holiday and have big Sam in to keep us up, and then bring Houllier back to do the good he should be doing when there is no relegation battle and a full summer to implement his plans. That is clearly ludicrous but it sums up Houllier's pro's and con's for me in him being at the club - I think he could ultimately really make us progress with his contacts and in the development of a better style of football.

So I hold out for that future, but it would clearly be devastating to my vision if we began next season in the championship. I still back Houllier because, despite the contrasting opinions of others, I think he is no fool. Who am I to criticize the more dubious elements of his style? Just a supporter. I believe he knows how to run a football club much better than me. Hence I side with him before any player. I've heard the argument against him over and over and, in my opinion, there is a lot said against him that doesn't really stand up under scrutiny - once the heresay is out of the way

Good post, and in a perfect world what your saying could happend, but in order for us to be a prem force next season i think the Fat Sam road is the only way to surviving. the players we have here dont seem to want to respond to GH so how far do we let this go before we take action?. we cant just keep hoping that GH turns things around, we need to be in a decent postion to give someone else a chance.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

Am I still on Villa talk?

It seems some reasonable and level headed debate has broken out amidst all the chaos.

:confused:

fuk u, u empty hed fool!!!!!!!

:winkold:

[GaztonVilla]

That is true based on the fact that we did come in 6 place last year - but how did the team play in the last half of the season? We played some of the worst football and barely scrapped home 6 place.

We have taken that form with us into this year and then had a lot of injuries. Maybe the squad is just not so good after all??

I don't think it's fair to say we scraped 6th place.

Wasn't it only in game 37 (of 38) that we lost out on 4th spot?

I think it would be more accurate to say that we were pipped at the post for a CL spot.

[LondonLax]

I don't think we will sack Houllier and I don't think we really should. It will kill another transfer window and then the new manager will take time to get his style implemented etc.

My main hope is that a few new signings (loans or permanent) will be a bit of fresh air in the dressing room.

New players who are willing to play for the manager and will not grumble about the extra training sessions compared with MONs style might inspire a few of the other established players to get focused again and start getting the results on the pitch that they are capable of.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

To be fair, CL spot chances vanished when we lost to Chelsea 7-1. Probably even before that with the draws at home to Sunderland and Wolves. From that moment, 4th was quite a way off.

We didn't scrape into 6th though, we deserved to finish there after a good season.

[Gringo]

I voted in the end to back him primarily because I think our squad is seriously lacking in quality

this same sqaud that got us to 6th last season and to a cup final, alright we lost Milner but this squad is still good enough to be top half. ...........

That is true based on the fact that we did come in 6 place last year - but how did the team play in the last half of the season? We played some of the worst football and barely scrapped home 6 place.

We have taken that form with us into this year and then had a lot of injuries. Maybe the squad is just not so good after all??

35 points from first half of the season, 29 from the second half. Hardly falling off a cliff was it