Bolitics The New Condem Government

[Demitri_C]

just seen ed miliband's speech, man the guy is boring. he was sending me to sleep, brown mark II

[snowychap]

Oh, like the new avatar, Grings.

[drat01]

that is just your attempt at spin.

Oh Jon - always with that ridiculous statement. There is no "spin", and thinking a bit more what the **** do you mean or are you just borrowing phrases to make trouble?

On the whole Clegg / Cameron marriage / merge / unity / love-in whatever it is, how the heck can you trust either of them or the others who have been "political whores" - to borrow a phrase from AWOL?

Lets "borrow" this from the media today

CAMERON ON THE LIB DEMS

August 2008: "The Liberal Democrats spend every waking hour dreaming of a hung Parliament and their moment of power when they can finally foist themselves on a grateful nation."

April 15, 2010: Let me just make one point after all that Nick said. I thought there was a slight danger of a sort of holier than thou.

April 17: Choose the Liberal Democrats - and you're choosing people who'll never win and can never change things.

April 26: It's now all becoming clear - the great plan of Nick Clegg's is becoming clear- he's only interested in one thing and that is changing our electoral system so that we have a permanent hung Parliament, we have a permanent coalition, we never have strong and decisive government."

CLEGG ON THE TORIES

Sept 18, 2008: (On David Cameron's masterplan for the UK): "We know it's blue. So are the Smurfs. And Toilet Duck."

Sept 19, 2009: "They'll promise whatever they think it takes to get elected. David Cameron is the conman of British politics... just telling people what they want to hear."

April 13: "Cameron seems to think it is just his turn to govern. You can't trust Conservatives."

April 15: "Why is it that when Liberal Democrats put forward a law which would give everyone the right to sack their MP if their MP is corrupt... Conservative MPs didn't even bother to vote. It's not good enough to keep talking about how we need to change politics, if when you've an opportunity to change, you block it."

April 22: "How on earth does it help anyone, David Cameron, to join together in the European Union with a bunch of nutters, anti-Semites, people who deny climate change, homophobes..."

May 3: "Don't let David Cameron or anyone else tell you what you've got to do."

HUHNE ON TORY STANCE ON EUROPE

September 22, 2009: "DAVE'S dumped the Tories' long-term allies to jump into bed with the wackos and the weirdos. He says he cares about human rights, but then cuddles up to a Latvian party that celebrates Adolf Hitler's Waffen SS."

OSBORNE ON THE LIB DEMS

March 29: "There is not going to be a Liberal Democrat government".

CABLE ON THE TORIES

April 1: "Labour and the Tories are as bad as each other. Their plans would drive public finances into the ground."

March 29: "Tory policy on NICs is schoolboy economics.

"The Tories presided over two big recessions in office, they wasted most of the North Sea oil revenue, they sold off the family silver on the cheap."

"Who can you trust? A plague on both their houses."

February 24: "Osborne is out of his depth."

January 2: "Tories are confused about cuts" following it up three days later with: "Third change in Tory economic policy in as many weeks."

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Feb 1: "Labour and Tories are accusing each other of being confused and contradictory on the economy, and they're both right."

Speaking on Mr Osborne's Mais lecture on February 24: "Osborne's latest economic commentary shows just how out of his depth he is when it comes to the important economic issues."

March 13, Lib Dem conference: "People are desperate to see the back of this Labour government. But they don't want the same old Tories.

"And make no mistake they are exactly the same."

April 9, On the Tory National Insurance business letter: "Utterly nauseating."

U-TURNS

VINCE CABLE

November 2004: "Our proposal to abolish the DTI is not just about saving money but because we understand the frustration business has with a meddling, centralising, over-regulating government. Its abolition is the largest act of deregulation."

Now (to his staff at the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills): "I think I've threatened to abolish you, but I've learned the error of my ways."

NICK CLEGG

April 29: "There is just a gulf between what David Cameron stands for and what I stand for, in terms of values, in terms of internationalism, in terms of fairness, in terms of progressive tax reform, in terms of political reform, in terms of simply living in denial, as does Labour, about a major problem of their creation in the immigration system."

Now: "We are united by a common purpose for the job we want to do together in the next five years."

DAVID CAMERON

April 15: "We say stop that National Insurance rise, and instead spend the money on a cancer drugs fund, so people can get the drugs they need."

April 29: "The risk to the recovery is putting up National Insurance on every job in the country, which is what Labour propose."

GEORGE OSBORNE

March 24: "Labour's NI increase is a tax rise on working people."

Now: Coalition statement reveals no reverse in 1% National Insurance rates rise for workers.

DAVID CAMERON

April 15: "I would love to take everyone out of their first £10,000 of income tax, Nick. It's a beautiful idea, a lovely idea. We cannot afford it."

Now: Coalition statement: Long term objective to raise allowance to £10,000, which could cost £17bn.

March 30: "The great thing about being Vince Cable is that no one asks you tough questions."

Now: "Vince Cable is an absolute star in terms of economic policy and thinking."

VINCE CABLE

Asked if he would take the Chancellor's job if offered it by Labour: "I'm not going to be bought by them or the Tories. It's a team game and I'm a Lib Dem."

May 13: "Arranged marriages often work better than ones born out of love."

DANNY ALEXANDER

Lib Dem manifesto: Scrap the Scotland Office.

May 13: Appointed Secretary of State for Scotland at the, er, Scotland Office.

KEN CLARKE

May 3: "The idea of the Liberals playing a role in Government is laughable when you look at their frivolous plans."

April 21: "A hung parliament fills me with horror. The idea that I would welcome working with Nick... I can assure you I would hope to avoid it."

So obviously from the massive U turns they have now done they are somewhat dizzy and unsure of who is what and what is who.

A bit more looking and you find a quote a plenty from Clegg and the other LibDems regarding parliamentary voting and the sanctity of the constitution. Likewise Cameron et al the same. Another massive U turn.

OK it's early days of the joint ConDem party, but what do they actually stand for, because whatever they say going on past records means nothing in terms of them meaning it. Opportunism rules Westminster it seems, what a gamble they are making on the future of the UK

[drat01]

just seen ed miliband's speech, man the guy is boring. he was sending me to sleep, brown mark II

Pop Idol politics lives

[drat01]

That is why I'm more than happy with Cameron and Clegg because the alternative is proven to be far far worse. Besides as you liked to say when Brown was in the hotseat, it's not about personality but what they can deliver in Government. Perhaps take your own advice and wait for the ink to dry on the agreement before deciding it won't work?

Jon - what ink? Going on past records either of them could say the Sky was blue but tomorrow they would say it was green. Not so long back you were calling using the "Clegg is a Nazi" story as some stick to beat Clegg with. Also you have been against many of their policies, again how can you reconcile this immediate change in policy?

Yes we do have to wait, but so far we have one bit of legislation they are pushing, something that is against so many things in our (just for Pete) unwritten constitution. I maintain that you would have been shouting very loudly of Labour had tried to install this. I sort of expect teh Cons to be double dealing and opportunist, that is what Cameron has been like since the day he took over. The LibDems were never like that, but obviously now they are showing themselves to have let down their own party and ultimately all of the people that voted for them.

Going to enjoy(ish) showing their hypocrisy up and watching them gradually show how they are one and the same.

[snowychap]

Lets "borrow" this article from The Mirror today...

Fixed.

[leviramsey]

Yes we do have to wait, but so far we have one bit of legislation they are pushing, something that is against so many things in our (just for Pete) unwritten constitution. I maintain that you would have been shouting very loudly of Labour had tried to install this.

Labour wouldn't have had a reason to push it. Throughout the New Labour period they've had majorities in excess of the threshold & weren't in coalition.

If you're going to have a fixed-term parliament (a major constitutional change, to be sure, but IIRC, one that was proposed by the Lib Dems in their manifesto), then you need to have greater safeguards against the government calling a snap election; if you're going to pretend to have fixed-term parliaments without such safeguards, then you may as well say that the system up to now has been fixed-term.

The 50%+1 requirement for no confidence remains.

[Gringo]

Lets "borrow" this article from The Mirror today...

Fixed.

Thanks for that. I was under the impression that people were supposed to post a link to the articles they were quoting.

[thetrees]

Lets "borrow" this article from The Mirror today...

Fixed.

I read the Mirror in the barbers this morning.

What a completely irrational and vitriolic rag. That geordie Kevin bloke that the BBC wheel out from there for comment, who I have always seen as a radical nutjob, looks tame by the side of what his colleagues are writing.

The Mirror content makes the Daily Mail look balanced :shock:

[snowychap]

That geordie Kevin bloke that the BBC wheel out from there for comment, who I have always seen as a radical nutjob

I enjoy Kevin Maguire whenever he's on the Beeb.

[thetrees]

That geordie Kevin bloke that the BBC wheel out from there for comment, who I have always seen as a radical nutjob

I enjoy Kevin Maguire whenever he's on the Beeb.

I know that socialism and politeness don't go hand in hand, but I find him excessively rude and completely unwilling to listen to anybody elses point of view.

[snowychap]

I know that socialism and politeness don't go hand in hand

Well, you 'know' no such thing. You have that opinion and it would be relatively easy to find that kind of comment (or at least the inference that one might draw from the comment) excessively rude if one didn't know that it came from a biased source.

...but I find him excessively rude and completely unwilling to listen to anybody elses point of view.

Have you not seen Melanie Phillips, Janet Daly et al.?

p.s. Missed out Douglas Murray.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

I know that socialism and politeness don't go hand in hand

That's not very nice.

I agree about the Mirror though, as bad as the Mail when it comes to blatant bias. Then again I think all media should be independent and should provide knowledge and information, not opinions and bias.

And Kevin Maguirre isn't too bad, I certainly find him less irritable than some of the people the bbc employ.

[Gringo]

I know that socialism and politeness don't go hand in hand

That's not very nice.

I wouldn't take any offence if I was you, thetrees thinks everyone left of tebbit is a socialist, so the judgement suffers in value somewhat.

[thetrees]

I know that socialism and politeness don't go hand in hand

Well, you 'know' no such thing. You have that opinion and it would be relatively easy to find that kind of comment (or at least the inference that one might draw from the comment) excessively rude if one didn't know that it came from a biased source.

Sorry, I should have stated 'don't necessarily go hand in hand'

If I am biased how do you explain the fact that there are a collection of (presumably) left and centre-left correspondents on this forum whose input that I enjoy and respect, and whose point of view I always accept, even if I only rarely agree with them?

[thetrees]

I know that socialism and politeness don't go hand in hand

That's not very nice.

I wouldn't take any offence if I was you, thetrees thinks everyone left of tebbit is a socialist, so the judgement suffers in value somewhat.

Extremely harsh

You're on my list :winkold:

[snowychap]

Sorry, I should have stated 'don't necessarily go hand in hand'

That would have made a bit of difference.

If I am biased how do you explain the fact that there are a collection of (presumably) left and centre-left correspondents on this forum whose input that I enjoy and respect, and whose point of view I always accept, even if I only rarely agree with them?

What would that have to do with bias? :?

One can still enjoy and respect other people's input whilst mainaining one's bias(es).

[Awol]

that is just your attempt at spin.

Oh Jon - always with that ridiculous statement. There is no "spin", and thinking a bit more what the **** do you mean or are you just borrowing phrases to make trouble?

Ok then, I apologise if your use of the word "joint party" is not spin, if it isn't then it is clearly just a lack of comprehension on your part. So with that in mind, what part of the phrase "coalition government" are you failing to understand?

When there was a Lib/Lab coalition 30 years ago did they become the same party? When there was a cross party coalition during WW2 did the seperate parties cease to exist?

Can you see now why talking about a new "joint party" is factually incorrect?

As I understand it the word coalition in this context would mean a temporary alliance of people, factions or parties. A coalition is generally entered into to achieve a shared goal, which in this cass is trying to un-f*ck the mess Labour have made of the country.

Jon - what ink? Going on past records either of them could say the Sky was blue but tomorrow they would say it was green. Not so long back you were calling using the "Clegg is a Nazi" story as some stick to beat Clegg with.

No no, your getting confused with Ed Balls.

[Awol]

Oops

[Gringo]

Ok then, I apologise if your use of the word "joint party" is not spin, if it isn't then it is clearly just a lack of comprehension on your part. So with that in mind, what part of the phrase "coalition government" are you failing to understand?

When there was a Lib/Lab coalition 30 years ago did they become the same party? When there was a cross party coalition during WW2 did the seperate parties cease to exist?

Can you see now why talking about a new "joint party" is factually incorrect?

I just think labour hq haven't decided if they're supposed to be attacking tories for being tories or abstainers for selling out so at the moment they're taking the broadbrush approach.