Bolitics The New Condem Government

[tonyh29]

It's the one way to guarantee a cheer on Question Time if you're of the left wing persuasion. Say something about poor nurses and nasty bankers, and there you go, you too can be an annoying twit like Owen Jones.

So in your mind it's poor bankers and nasty nurses? ... That actually sounds about right for a Tory. Point taken.

Presumably you didn't read Blandy's post earlier ?

It wasn't what he said , but then you already knew that didn't you

[tonyh29]

The bickering on QT tonight made this thread look like sophisticated debate

To quote comic book guy "Worse episode ever"

[villaajax]

The bickering on QT tonight made this thread look like sophisticated debate

To quote comic book guy "Worse episode ever"

 

I believe it's 'Worst'

[PaulC]

UKIP dunce in QT audience can't string a sentence together ...

 

 

 yep, Quentin Letts  was very annoying and Dimbleby gave him more time than he deserved. Blaming the economy on Welfare. what utter crap. Most of the welfare is pensions anyway.

[tonyh29]

Think it's £1 in ever £8 the government spend is on pensions ? I guess the idea behind this new(ish) pension law is that at some point in the future a government can cut state pensions Its a bloody nightmare to administer and should have been collected through NI as its a mechanism already in place but This new workplace pension scheme means by 2014 you'll make a 4% contribution plus 3% by your employer .... Run that for 40 years of working life and it's quite a tidy sum The average pension pot at present is 40k which gives about £2k a year pension after you take your lump sum

Edited October 3, 2013 by tonyh29

[peterms]

 

 

I think that tweet is a little misleading! Whilst it may be true that Crosby uses an offshore company the link quite clearly shows that it is a UK tax registered company based in London that made the donation to the Tory party. Besides i'm not sure that Malta qualifies as a mysterious tax haven...it's a fully paid up member of the EU.

 

http://www.qwealthreport.com/malta-little-known-tax-haven-within-eu/

 

 

 

Malta isn't a 'tax haven', and nothing in that link you posted supports the idea that is.

 

 

 

Pffft.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/expat-money/8137076/Tax-havens-at-the-heart-of-the-EU.html

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/01/business/global/as-banks-in-cyprus-falter-other-tax-havens-step-in.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

http://www.dw.de/the-whos-who-of-european-tax-havens/a-16753202

 

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/cd1e589a-c7e1-11df-8683-00144feab49a.html

[tonyh29]

The bickering on QT tonight made this thread look like sophisticated debate

To quote comic book guy "Worse episode ever"

I believe it's 'Worst'

Only if your a Marxist and hate Britain

[peterms]

 

 

The bickering on QT tonight made this thread look like sophisticated debate

To quote comic book guy "Worse episode ever"

I believe it's 'Worst'

 

Only if your a Marxist and hate Britain

 

 

It would have been Wurst all the way if Lord Rothermere had had his way.

[peterms]

Unhidden your post to answer that Peter.

 

From research I have done,  from answers to questions I have had when discussing with people.  Not sure if they have quoted any "briefing note" or CTF (and I may be a bad Tory but not even sure what CTF is to be honest)

 

Peter I do wish you'd focus less on a conspiracy and take things for what they are.  I dont spend my time getting briefing notes or emails telling me I have to say this or another.  There is not that control on my thoughts.

 

Maybe you think there is because of other parties behaviour.?

 

Snowy's response is a good answer.  Perhaps if you unhide that one, you might decide if you wish to answer it.  Though I'm still wondering how, if something was hidden from you, you would realise that you wished to unhide it.  And is this hidden from you?  Am I talking to myself?  If Schrodinger's cat falls out of a tree in the forest, with no-one there to fill in the tax exemption forms, what's the official line on animal cruelty?

 

It's all such a puzzle.

[tonyh29]

You didn't say if Schrödinger was a benefit scrounging immigrant or not and if his cat was legally entitled to be in the forest but I'm guessing the answer is Kate Middleton

[peterms]

I think his name clearly makes him an object of suspicion.  Also his failure to give a clear and unequivocal answer as to the state of his cat.

[drat01]

It's the one way to guarantee a cheer on Question Time if you're of the left wing persuasion. Say something about poor nurses and nasty bankers, and there you go, you too can be an annoying twit like Owen Jones.

What a strange comment. Was Owen Jones on the panel last night?

[drat01]

Not sure if this story fits into this thread but it was in the BBC politics section

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24387578

 

GCHQ Belgium hacking claim 'has to be probed'

GCHQ in Cheltenham has been accused of eavesdropping on a Belgian firm

Continue reading the main story Related Stories

• Profile: Edward Snowden
• No 10 contacted paper over secrets
• Obama defends mass surveillance

The European Parliament is right to probe claims that UK spy agency GCHQ launched a cyber attack on a Belgian telecom firm, a British MEP says.

Allegations GCHQ attempted to hack into Belgacom - whose customers include the EU offices in Brussels - were revealed in documents leaked by Edward Snowden.

Labour's Claude Moraes said it was "only natural" there was an inquiry.

Britain said the EU did not have the power to investigate. GCHQ says it works within a strict legal framework.

The head of GCHQ, Sir Iain Lobban, did not turn up to give evidence at Thursday's European Parliamentary Inquiry, which is tasked with investigating the extent of the alleged electronic mass surveillance of EU citizens.

'Unusual allegation'

Representatives from Belgacom, which provides internet services and telecommunications across Belgium including to the EU and its institutions, did attend Thursday's inquiry.

Geert Stadaert, vice president of the firm, told the inquiry its experts "sounded the alarm about anomalies in Belgacom's networks" in June.

The company said it had discovered malicious software in its systems.

Mr Stadaert said Belgacom had no information about the perpetrator or the motive.

But German magazine Der Spiegel reported that documents provided by former US defence contractor Edward Snowden contained details of "Operation Socialist" - GCHQ's alleged code name for an attack on Belgacom's systems.

Der Spiegel said the aim of the alleged operation was to enable Cheltenham-based GCHQ to launch "Man in the Middle" attacks.

These could have enabled it to intercept communications between two parties, read and potentially change them without either side realising.

A spokesperson for the intelligence agency said it would not comment on media stories about leaks or on intelligence matters.

Mr Moraeas, MEP for London, said: "In every member state, including the United Kingdom, MPs and representatives are being asked to investigate these allegations and it's only natural that in the European Parliament that happens as well.

"You have allegations of the UK spying on Belgian telephone systems which were part of infrastructure for the European Union.

"I think that's quite an unusual allegation and of course it can't just stand, it has to be investigated."

Belgacom has passed its information onto the Belgian prosecutor who is investigating.

Mr Snowden sought asylum in Russia after disclosing classified documents to the Guardian newspaper revealing details of US surveillance activities.

 

First reaction was blimey

[Awol]

Not sure if this story fits into this thread but it was in the BBC politics section

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24387578

 

 

GCHQ Belgium hacking claim 'has to be probed'

GCHQ in Cheltenham has been accused of eavesdropping on a Belgian firm

Continue reading the main story Related Stories

• Profile: Edward Snowden
• No 10 contacted paper over secrets
• Obama defends mass surveillance

The European Parliament is right to probe claims that UK spy agency GCHQ launched a cyber attack on a Belgian telecom firm, a British MEP says.

Allegations GCHQ attempted to hack into Belgacom - whose customers include the EU offices in Brussels - were revealed in documents leaked by Edward Snowden.

Labour's Claude Moraes said it was "only natural" there was an inquiry.

Britain said the EU did not have the power to investigate. GCHQ says it works within a strict legal framework.

The head of GCHQ, Sir Iain Lobban, did not turn up to give evidence at Thursday's European Parliamentary Inquiry, which is tasked with investigating the extent of the alleged electronic mass surveillance of EU citizens.

'Unusual allegation'

Representatives from Belgacom, which provides internet services and telecommunications across Belgium including to the EU and its institutions, did attend Thursday's inquiry.

Geert Stadaert, vice president of the firm, told the inquiry its experts "sounded the alarm about anomalies in Belgacom's networks" in June.

The company said it had discovered malicious software in its systems.

Mr Stadaert said Belgacom had no information about the perpetrator or the motive.

But German magazine Der Spiegel reported that documents provided by former US defence contractor Edward Snowden contained details of "Operation Socialist" - GCHQ's alleged code name for an attack on Belgacom's systems.

Der Spiegel said the aim of the alleged operation was to enable Cheltenham-based GCHQ to launch "Man in the Middle" attacks.

These could have enabled it to intercept communications between two parties, read and potentially change them without either side realising.

A spokesperson for the intelligence agency said it would not comment on media stories about leaks or on intelligence matters.

Mr Moraeas, MEP for London, said: "In every member state, including the United Kingdom, MPs and representatives are being asked to investigate these allegations and it's only natural that in the European Parliament that happens as well.

"You have allegations of the UK spying on Belgian telephone systems which were part of infrastructure for the European Union.

"I think that's quite an unusual allegation and of course it can't just stand, it has to be investigated."

Belgacom has passed its information onto the Belgian prosecutor who is investigating.

Mr Snowden sought asylum in Russia after disclosing classified documents to the Guardian newspaper revealing details of US surveillance activities.

 

First reaction was blimey

Why blimey?  GCHQ are spies, their job is to gather information covertly.

 

The headline should read: "GCHQ does its job, weasel American runt shafts them".

 

Sadly it isn't the last betrayal of a close ally this little ***********er has up his sleeve.

[drat01]

So spying on Belgian Telecom's firms that cover the EU is OK? - then for the second time the word Blimey springs to mind. AWOL I remember very well your outrage at Civil Liberties etc, I am surprised you do not follow that consistent line here.

 

If this story has any legs then it will be interesting to see how much the Gvmt knew (both this and previous ones) about such activities and what the end game is

 

Note: Operation Socialist? - really?

[colhint]

drat you need to watch spooks  

[drat01]

drat you need to watch spooks  

:-) - I have seen it, it scared me

[Awol]

So spying on Belgian Telecom's firms that cover the EU is OK? - then for the second time the word Blimey springs to mind. AWOL I remember very well your outrage at Civil Liberties etc, I am surprised you do not follow that consistent line here.

 

If this story has any legs then it will be interesting to see how much the Gvmt knew (both this and previous ones) about such activities and what the end game is

 

Note: Operation Socialist? - really?

Spying on anyone and everyone beyond Dover is okay, indeed it is essential. As old Palmerston said, "We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow."  Nothing has changed since. However trying to conflate that issue with domestic civil liberties is complete nonsense. Knowing what foreign governments are saying to each other behind closed doors has nothing at all to do with a government wanting to bang people up for 90 days without charge, for example.

 

As for operational name those used by the military are created by a random word generator. I don't know if the security services use the same model or just have a good sense of humour.

[drat01]

You see AWOL that is one of the very many things that you and I differ on. As you know the EU is not about just old "Johnny Foreigner" there are a lot of UK based people working out of and for there, so basically this is spying on them. What about UK organisations based out of Belgium, were they / are they spying on them too? Also, it would be interesting to see what the remit and what the result was for such spying, I suspect we would never see that.

 

I am actually laughing again at you trying to pass off the name as just a random act of chance

[Awol]

The EU is exactly "Jonny Foreigner", whether UK citizens are living there or not is utterly irrelevant and such an absurd argument I can't believe you are trying to make it. I'm pretty sure there are quite a few Brits living in Moscow and Beijing. Should we therefore not spy on Russia and China! Come on, it's ridiculous.

 

European nations all spy on each other, whether that's for diplomatic secrets, economic information or IP. Believing that membership of the EU makes everyone in it fraternal brothers is a nice line for politicians to spin to the gullible, but it isn't actually true.