trimandson Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 the deal went through because Lloyds saw a great chance o the cheap to get a market share that they could not have been allowed under 'normal' circumstances it had to be done quick otherwie HBOS was going down, it appears Lloyds never knew the full extent, they have not blamed anyoe, it was their descion, they could have walked away How could they have not known about 10bn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 Trim it is not the government who got you into the mess but the bosses and traders in all the big banks Ian, you and I both don't know the full details of the Lloyds takeover, but it wouldn't surprise me if in future years it is investigated somewhat seriously. The losses of 10bn are, IMO, somewhat massively over-exaggerated. I would suggest that before the takeover that figure would be nowhere near (I may be wrong obviously, I'm not at a level to know this). There are a lot of people in this whole takeover who will do seriously well while I suffer on my <20k wage. I have a theory that the banks are doing this to force the government to wipe out their debts that would naturally occur in a recession anyway what has to happen is that the government in the good times gets all the money back plus interest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 RBS is a different company Drat, I'm talking strictly HBoS and Lloyds here. Sorry Trim - I misread your post there - apologies As for the bonus thing, this goes back to a previous thread in the way that people are paid now. A Bonus should never be guaranteed. I agree from what you are saying that in a typical world you should be rewarded for what seems to be a very good job, but unfortunately the world at the moment is crazy. I work for a company that made record profits and what do they do? cut wages and lay off people, it's ridiculous and people are afraid to stand up against it because it's not the wisest thing at the moment to start shouting. The killing off of the major union powers has somewhat given nearly all the power back to the employer rather than any for the employee. Don't forget also, the "other lot" may well have let the company go to the wall, which would have been a lot worse than what has happened to date Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 There are a lot of people in this whole takeover who will do seriously well while I suffer on my <20k wage. I agree with that comment 100% Trim. There are a lot of city people still making money out of all of this. Some still contribute heavily to a certain party too but that is another subject Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 the deal went through because Lloyds saw a great chance o the cheap to get a market share that they could not have been allowed under 'normal' circumstances it had to be done quick otherwie HBOS was going down, it appears Lloyds never knew the full extent, they have not blamed anyoe, it was their descion, they could have walked away How could they have not known about 10bn? as I said in my last post easier to ignore it the government will bail you out ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimandson Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 RBS is a different company Drat, I'm talking strictly HBoS and Lloyds here. Sorry Trim - I misread your post there - apologies As for the bonus thing, this goes back to a previous thread in the way that people are paid now. A Bonus should never be guaranteed. I agree from what you are saying that in a typical world you should be rewarded for what seems to be a very good job, but unfortunately the world at the moment is crazy. I work for a company that made record profits and what do they do? cut wages and lay off people, it's ridiculous and people are afraid to stand up against it because it's not the wisest thing at the moment to start shouting. The killing off of the major union powers has somewhat given nearly all the power back to the employer rather than any for the employee. Don't forget also, the "other lot" may well have let the company go to the wall, which would have been a lot worse than what has happened to date I agree with that tenfold, and echoed the exact same statement last year when people didn't get their 20% etc of what they expected (ultimately it's called a BONUS, people forget this). But my sector broke 1.4bn in profit. Not bad. Why shouldn't I get a payout? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimandson Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 There are a lot of people in this whole takeover who will do seriously well while I suffer on my <20k wage. I agree with that comment 100% Trim. There are a lot of city people still making money out of all of this. Some still contribute heavily to a certain party too but that is another subject Very true, and more then anything I point at Mr Hornby as an example. He's being paid A LOT of money for his consultancy role. Haven't Lloyds been thru a takeover before, it can't be that hard surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 But my sector broke 1.4bn in profit. Not bad. Why shouldn't I get a payout? I agree - At the start of each year I sign an agreement that means I get a certain pay based on certain targets being met. Now mngmt try, but often fail to move the goal posts each year especially if it means we exceed targets as we are on certain accelerators when we go above targets - it's the old "hockey stick" graph. A lot of that is dept / section / group based so if our part do well we all prosper. That's how it used to work, but as said it's gone crazy now and many are scared to do anything about it. One thing I did read today was interesting though Info - I do like this web site about your legal rights. It all depends on what's in the contract really - again power to the employers at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimandson Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Very good read Drat that, and concludes with something someone told me a few years ago about working practice. You know, going slightly OT on the whole subject, one of the most disappointing things in this whole scenario has been the Union. Massively so. They seem to be playing strictly for new members and nothing else. No interest in what's going on. I also thought a lot more of them before this situation, now I'm actually quite angry with them. They've offered nothing. That's a big **** up for a union to a 70k workforce (obviously not all members like). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Very true, and more then anything I point at Mr Hornby as an example. He's being paid A LOT of money for his consultancy role. And he also has a pension pot of around £8m, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Trim I wish the unions had more power but they seemingly don't now and I agree they can appear to and often do let themselves down. How many are members say in your office mate? I expected a growth in union membership but I am not sure that is happening. It seems now that most people expect the Gvmt to be their union and their employer at the same time (and their insurance policy). I hope you get your bonus, it sounds like you and your team are deserving of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimandson Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Very true, and more then anything I point at Mr Hornby as an example. He's being paid A LOT of money for his consultancy role. And he also has a pension pot of around £8m, I believe. I don't think it's quite that much, and he's also lost some serious money in shares. He took his last bonus in shares, which subsequently dropped about 85-90% I believe. I double check though figures mind, it was a few months ago now. Again, I might be wrong, I'm a mere worker after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I don't think it's quite that much Yes, you're right - sorry I was getting my thieving ex-CEOs mixed up. :winkold: His pension pot is a mere £2.4 million. and he's also lost some serious money in shares. Good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimandson Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Trim I wish the unions had more power but they seemingly don't now and I agree they can appear to and often do let themselves down. How many are members say in your office mate? I expected a growth in union membership but I am not sure that is happening. It seems now that most people expect the Gvmt to be their union and their employer at the same time (and their insurance policy). I hope you get your bonus, it sounds like you and your team are deserving of it. Well, my team, 4/5 (one off having a baby, weak). The team we're in, 25ish, maybe 30. In the whole company (BM, part of HBoS, building society) there's around, and I say this loosely because of PT/FT FTE and all, 1.5-2k over two sites. (Only BM) The unions have been nothing but horrible irritations in the whole thing personally so far. They've done my fruit. And I hope I get my bonus mate, I've spent 12 months reporting on the business (being a Business Analyst and all), and less money because of the business and the change freeze, I feel as though I deserve it mate. It's definitely been the busiest 12 months of my life. But, what can you do eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimandson Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I don't think it's quite that much Yes, you're right - sorry I was getting my thieving ex-CEOs mixed up. :winkold: His pension pot is a mere £2.4 million. and he's also lost some serious money in shares. Good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B6 to E6 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 edit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 28, 2009 Moderator Share Posted February 28, 2009 From the BBC article above it shows that someone in RBS lied. How is that the Gvmts fault again? The PM has said that now they are going after Goodwin with as much legal force as there is out there. I bet the RBS board room shredder will be busy Woah there!. The article relates a "he said, then he said" tale of events. It may of course be deliberately brief and abbreviated, BUT, imagine if it was a police station... The Sergeant urged that Godwin be charged, but was told by Godwin's boss, that action would be taken in-house "In the presence of a lawyer he said "I ain't done nuffink copper, you ain't got nothing on me, I know my rights" The Sergeant felt he couldn't challenge an arrangement that therefore seemed obligatory. The man would be fired for his alleged misdemeanours" And then it turned out that nothing was written down. In other words, in a multi million pound issue, it seems that no-one actually checked any written paperwork. It seems that people just took each others word on it. Maybe not the wisest course of action when investigating and trying to resolve the loos of, ohh, 20 odd billion quid. I think I'd have wanted to have everything in writing and verified it. Mind you the folks involved are not exactly without previous, are they? Chaps together and all that...."Seems like a good egg, chaps don't deliberately make a mess and walk away with millions, do they - Chaps are decent. Otherwise, well, they'd be no better than thieves and fraudsters, and chaps simply aren't like that. No need to look any closer I say. Pimms anyone? - I'll be at the Garrick later, first bottle of Bolly on me, what, Chin chin" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted February 28, 2009 VT Supporter Share Posted February 28, 2009 The losses of 10bn are, IMO, somewhat massively over-exaggerated. Pretty much every mark-to-market loss is. The market prices on debt are far below what a hold-to-maturity buyer would realize. Unfortunately, most of the market participants with the ability to buy the shit have such short-term liquidity issues due to over-leverage that they can't buy it to hold to maturity... If you're inclined to be a vulture, this environment is a once-in-a-lifetime (it will probably be another 80-100 years before you get a chance to see a few decades of excess swing the other way) opportunity. My family is actively moving into vulture mode now; on a more personal level, I'm deferring the expedition to Birmingham to save up cash to start buying distressed assets in the second half of the year (I'm not going to wait a few decades for my dad to croak). The S&P is more-or-less fairly valued long term now, but I think it will move substantially lower by autumn, thus providing a better entry point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted February 28, 2009 VT Supporter Share Posted February 28, 2009 You know, going slightly OT on the whole subject, one of the most disappointing things in this whole scenario has been the Union. Massively so. They seem to be playing strictly for new members and nothing else. No interest in what's going on. I also thought a lot more of them before this situation, now I'm actually quite angry with them. They've offered nothing. That's a big **** up for a union to a 70k workforce (obviously not all members like). Not really surprising. By and large all union leadership cares about is having dues to skim. They care about as much about the workers as do the employers. At least the employers are more honest about not giving two shits about the workers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted February 28, 2009 VT Supporter Share Posted February 28, 2009 I don't think it's quite that much, and he's also lost some serious money in shares. He took his last bonus in shares, which subsequently dropped about 85-90% I believe. I double check though figures mind, it was a few months ago now. Again, I might be wrong, I'm a mere worker after all Don't worry about him... odds are his options will quietly be repriced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts