drat01 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 would this be the minimum wage that many experts are now saying was good intentions , bad results ? So you would be happy for the minimum wage to be scrapped (along with most of the Tory party it would seem). The "true" Tory party is starting to emerge from under the glossy marketing. How did it go again ........"There is no such thing as society" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Tory MP's who opposed the Minimum wage and the source for this is ......... ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Tory MP's who opposed the Minimum wage Lovely list of names from the 1990's Ian, the Bill you linked had eleven supporters. Remember how many Labour MP's were opposed to tuition fees on principle back then? They were allowed to change their minds and financially fist the students of this country, does it not therefore follow that Tories who opposed the minimum wage ten years ago may also have also changed their minds? If they hadn't then that Bill would have had considerably more support, non? I think it's a fair bet that the minimum wage will be under sever attack and probable killing off under any Tory party rule. I think it's a fair bet that isn't correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 would this be the minimum wage that many experts are now saying was good intentions , bad results ? i.e You cannot make a man worth a given amount by making it illegal for anyone to offer him less. You merely deprive him of the right to earn the amount that his abilities and situation would permit him to earn, while you deprive the community even of the moderate services that he is capable of rendering. In brief, for a low wage you substitute unemployment. You do harm all around, with no comparable compensationThe economic aspect was laid out at the time, and the result of the minimum wage was that businesses would fall, economies collapse and unemployment rocket. Didn't really turn out like that, did it. It would be rather unscrupulous of the tories to use the failure of the nulabour economy to also sideswipe at one of the more popular, effective and succesful policies that tony implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Tory MP's who opposed the Minimum wage and the source for this is ......... ??old and out of date? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 would this be the minimum wage that many experts are now saying was good intentions , bad results ? Tony, who are these experts who are 'now' saying these things? Are they not the same experts who have always been saying these things? i.e You cannot make a man worth a given amount by making it illegal for anyone to offer him less. You merely deprive him of the right to earn the amount that his abilities and situation would permit him to earn, while you deprive the community even of the moderate services that he is capable of rendering. In brief, for a low wage you substitute unemployment. You do harm all around, with no comparable compensation I think that is pretty much the argument put forward by opponents of the minimum wage since the word go. If you want one failing of the minimum wage - a few people were discussing it a few days ago in this thread and one of the failings put forward by someone (maybe thetrees) was that the minimum wage had become a benchmark and that some people's wages had been reduced to that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 It would be rather unscrupulous of the tories to use the failure of the nulabour economy to also sideswipe at one of the more popular, effective and succesful policies that tony implemented Gringo, do not fall for the scaremongering that is being peddled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 would this be the minimum wage that many experts are now saying was good intentions , bad results ? So you would be happy for the minimum wage to be scrapped (along with most of the Tory party it would seem). The "true" Tory party is starting to emerge from under the glossy marketing. How did it go again ........"There is no such thing as society" I try to keep out of this thread, but i did make the observation that the minimum wage, as well intentioned that it was, has become *the* wage in this country. We are now a consumer led, service orientated economy. Since the introduction of the minimum wage all unskilled jobs have become 'minimum wage' positions. If perhaps 5% of the work force were being exploited prior to its introduction, anything up to 40% of the workforce may now be paid the 'minimum' (personal guesstimates, I have no source) The minimum wage is probably enough for people to survive on, pay rent, eat, heat, put shoes on their kids' feet etc., but it doesn't leave any extra to spend, and if the 'extra' isn't being spent then the economy cannot recover. The idea of a minimum wage is fantastic but in practise, given the economic woe that we are now under, it could just become a millstone around the neck of economic recovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 It would be rather unscrupulous of the tories to use the failure of the nulabour economy to also sideswipe at one of the more popular, effective and succesful policies that tony implemented Gringo, do not fall for the scaremongering that is being peddled. really Richard so the bill Christopher Cope introduced to alow opts out and supported by 9 MP is ot reflective of what I believe the majority of Tory memebers believe do you support the min wage ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 It would be rather unscrupulous of the tories to use the failure of the nulabour economy to also sideswipe at one of the more popular, effective and succesful policies that tony implementedGringo, do not fall for the scaremongering that is being peddled.Replying to tony's point, obviously against the min wage - nothing more, nothing less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 If you want one failing of the minimum wage - a few people were discussing it a few days ago in this thread and one of the failings put forward by someone (maybe thetrees) was that the minimum wage had become a benchmark and that some people's wages had been reduced to that level. that is another one of many arguements ..thing is times they change Granting B of E independnece was deemed a good idea at the time ..then years later it is deemed a folly of the highest order ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 would this be the minimum wage that many experts are now saying was good intentions , bad results ?So you would be happy for the minimum wage to be scrapped (along with most of the Tory party it would seem). The "true" Tory party is starting to emerge from under the glossy marketing. How did it go again ........"There is no such thing as society"I try to keep out of this thread, but i did make the observation that the minimum wage, as well intentioned that it was, has become *the* wage in this country.I do disagree with that - the idea that a min wage sucks people don't to a certain level. In a prosperous economy, the only thing pushing wages down was the influx of cheaper foreign labour. In a struggling economy, the min wage will act as an effective floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 In a struggling economy, the min wage will act as an effective floor. One which the Tory party want to remove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 If you want one failing of the minimum wage - a few people were discussing it a few days ago in this thread and one of the failings put forward by someone (maybe thetrees) was that the minimum wage had become a benchmark and that some people's wages had been reduced to that level.that is another one of many arguements ..thing is times they change Granting B of E independnece was deemed a good idea at the time ..then years later it is deemed a folly of the highest order ...For one case there may appear to be some evidence of failure of policy, ie this thread. For the other case their is no evidence the policy is wrong. the only evidence offered against the minimum wage is hypotheticals and unless you're trying to sell us 42 days, hypotheticals don't cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 really Richard so the bill Christopher Cope introduced to alow opts out and supported by 9 MP is ot reflective of what I believe the majority of Tory memebers believe If it were reflective of what the majority of Tory members believe then surely it would have been supported by more than 9 people, unless of course there has been a load of by-elections recently and the Tory party only have 16 MP's left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Granting B of E independnece was deemed a good idea at the time ..then years later it is deemed a folly of the highest order ... The same BOE independence that Cameron said of And also Bank of England independence - in fact we'd enhance it. It is about the only decision Gordon Brown has taken to reduce interference from ministers in the economy, and it's not a coincidence that it's the decision that's worked the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 what would happen the day firm were allowed to opt out ... wages would fall, directors get bigger bonuses and hey ho the captialist system shits on the weak again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 well Cameron is o R5 now, of course no real policies but with statements he just uttered like 'opening up the market for education' oh dear nothing learnt eh ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 what would happen the day firm were allowed to opt out ... wages would fall, directors get bigger bonuses and hey ho the captialist system shits on the weak againWhich is about as a big an over reaction as the one before the minimum wage was introduced which said that the economy couldn't sustain it and would lead to unemployment, has proven to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 ... i did make the observation that the minimum wage, as well intentioned that it was, has become *the* wage in this country. Ah, glad I got the right person in my reference earlier. I do disagree with that - the idea that a min wage sucks people don't to a certain level. In a prosperous economy, the only thing pushing wages down was the influx of cheaper foreign labour. In a struggling economy, the min wage will act as an effective floor. I think it has become a benchmark for what lower end workers are paid. It is also sometimes used as a stick with which to beat people who might complain about their level of pay - 'well you're getting more than the minimum wage'. It is the minimum wage not the acceptable wage. what I believe the majority of Tory memebers believe Have I stumbled back into the God thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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