economic situation is dire

[leviramsey]

Warning level: Yellow

Your FBF has probably begrudgingly admitted that the hundreds of pretty graphs he labored over for his i-banking pitch books did not actually warrant $2-300K per year. He nonetheless clung to the dream of surviving this nightmare on Wall Street to see the day when he actually earns an even bigger pay check by closing the behemoth mulit-billion dollar transaction in the distant bull market of the future. Unfortunately, it now appears Obama is determined to put the smack down on Wall Street compensation. This is going to present a significant impediment to your FBF owning the 2013 Maserati. All, however, is not lost. High profile FGF, Meredith Whitney, is looking out for DABA Girls, publicly stating, “No one goes into Wall Street to save the world, compensation is the motivating factor.”

I think that Obama's approach of limiting base salaries to $500k and requiring that bonus plans be approved by shareholders (meaning the government, effectively) is a lot more apt to work than restricting bonuses.

[snowychap]

I do think a tax exemption for savings income may help a bit, make it more attractive to savers, increase the banks coffers, improve lqiuidity, loosen the lending policies.

I think I have spotted the flaw in your proposition. :winkold:

[HolteExile]

my company made 200m profit last year, I got no bounus's, I see no justification for them in any business at all, they do not encourage hard work but just greed

That is utter nonsense Ian. I work damn hard in work and nothing makes me prouder than when my boss does my anual review and puts my contribution down for the year as exceeds expectations. I'm rewarded for my hardwork for that year, I'm happy and I try to maintain that level of hard work, because I know I'll be rewarded for it. People work hard to get promotions, but they don't come ever year, bonuses are there to reward you every year for your work.

I think capping them at 20% is necessary though. That is enough to incentivise people to work hard. Anything more would be excess and are only paid to traders based on "profits" for that year. Incentivising them to take risks for short term profits. It's wrong and this mess has proved it wrong.

But hammering all bankers and all people who recieve bonuses because of this abuse is just plain wrong

I work in finance.

Part of my package is commision/ bonuses/ benefits.

All of these will take a hit.

The target to qualify for commision has been raised three fold. Effectively making it damn near impossible to achieve in the current climate.

The profit sharing scheme- whereby employees see a blanket payout in March/ April based on revenue generated last year- has been suspended.

And there is to be no annual pay review this year, regardless of performace.

All of this is tough.

But venting my spleen and putting the boot into teachers, Gardai and others in the public sector would be just plain wrong.

I save my wrath for the gangters in government, the shysters who effectively ran the country like their own personal fiefdom. The natural succesors to CJH in many respects. And Seán FitzPatrick and his ilk, who either by accident or design have helped to portray the nation as a banana republic to the wider financial community.

Ultimately we will all share the burden, but targeting lower- middle income earners- as is the intention of the current government isn't any real solution. It's a vaguely right-wing approach thats next logical step will be to target or blame single mothers.

IIRC, it was a HOD at Anglo Irish that had the audacity to go on national radio back in December (it might have even been Fitzpatrick himself) and actually offered the above as a solution. Before the full extent of the collapse of Anglo hit home of course.

A brave government, a decisive government would go after these parasites, and at the very least put forward a program of tax increases aimed at those in the higher bracket. Be that pay/ assets. Property developers and the like, who bloated the price of houses in this country to unrealisticly outlandish levels and who - for the most part- are still enjoying the fruits of their ill-gotten gains. But that won't happen.

It would be like turkeys voting for Christmas.

[CVByrne]

The big mproblem is low to mid income earners are the ones who contribute the most tax to the exomomy because Ireland has a huge middle class. They can't tackle the public finances without hitting them.

I found out yesterday that incriments will still be paid this year in the Public Sector so there is no promotion freeze on, incriments are usually over 1000 euro. Considering we are in a deflationary environment and that the levy is tax deductable most public servants spending power will not be eroded. But all of this is very hard to explain to people.

So a teacher on 38,000 will get their 1,200 incriment this year and a levy of 2250 on their pension, 48% of which is taken back in tax deduction, which results in that teacher paying 1170 in after tax levy and getting 624 after tax incriment. Leaving net reduction in pay this year of 546 or 45 euro per month.

Considering the reduction in Gas and Electricity bills, plus lower mortgage repayments and general deflation that teacher will have more spending power this year than last. But I know this because I work in Finance, but it's very hard to explain to the entire public sector.

But I think they levy is fair and they are being asked to make a small sacrafice in the grand scheme of things. We had to do something because Moodys will review our AAA rating today I think. If we maintain that rating that saves us approx 600mil in interest payments this year alone.

[snowychap]

Are these the kind of energy price cuts that people were expecting?

Scottish and Southern cuts prices

Scottish and Southern Energy (SSE) has said it will cut prices for electricity and gas customers from 30 March.

It said average prices for electricity customers would fall by 9% and average gas bills would be trimmed by 4% - the first price cut since March 2007.

The firm also supplies energy under the brand names Southern Electric, Swalec, Scottish Hydro Electric and Atlantic.

The announcement followed the decision by British Gas to cut gas bills by 10% from 19 February.

"Dual fuel" customers would see an average annual saving of £66, the company said.

SSE said that the falls in energy prices on wholesale markets had been maintained, allowing it to deliver a price cut.

However, the firm warned that prices remain at relatively high levels.

Electricity and gas prices are still 46% and 51% higher than two years ago, it said.

"The UK now relies on energy imports and wholesale prices for electricity and gas are still at historically high levels," said Alistair Phillips-Davies, SSE's energy supply director.

At the end of last year the "big six" energy companies were urged by the government to pass on lower wholesale gas prices.

[ianrobo1]

ah nothing like the free market to give you large drops in prices when the supplier cost has havled is it by 50 %?

there again when all the companies act like a monopoly it is not a free market

[snowychap]

when the supplier cost has havled is it by 50 %?

When it does fall by 50%, be sure to let me know, please.

[ianrobo1]

thats why I put the question mark has it ?

has the cost fell by just 10% when gas we were told becaiuse of the massibve price rises was link to oil at $150 a barrell, oil is now a third of that ...

or could I say it is a plain rip off

[snowychap]

Wholesale gas costs are linked to oil prices but with a lag and have come down a lot. However, companies purchase their gas long term on a portfolio of contracts (and timescales) so today's wholesale gas price does not represent how much today's gas costs.

Spot prices are a different market and react much more closely to current events (weather/Russia and Ukraine disputes, etc.).

The overheads of the companies will not have come down, though, and neither will the transportation costs of the gas.

EDIT: From a National Grid paper in 2006 - For a typical domestic consumer, distribution transportation costs currently represent approximately 17% of the gas supply price.

Obviously that proportion would change when the actual product cost changes but it is still a significant part of the cost of supplying gas.

[Clarry]

Cutting energy prices from 30th March. Very good. Should be nice and warm by then.

[ianrobo1]

Wholesale gas costs are linked to oil prices but with a lag and have come down a lot. However, companies purchase their gas long term on a portfolio of contracts (and timescales) so today's wholesale gas price does not represent how much today's gas costs.

Spot prices are a different market and react much more closely to current events (weather/Russia and Ukraine disputes, etc.).

The overheads of the companies will not have come down, though, and neither will the transportation costs of the gas.

EDIT: From a National Grid paper in 2006 - For a typical domestic consumer, distribution transportation costs currently represent approximately 17% of the gas supply price.

Obviously that proportion would change when the actual product cost changes but it is still a significant part of the cost of supplying gas.

I know that they buy the gas in advance so how come when the prices went up sharply the gas companies straightaway almost put their prices up ?

they have it both ways never mind the point Clarry made, doesn't the first energy company release their results soon ....

cheap poltical points win would be to pledge to impose a windfall tax on them to pay pensioners and the poor

[snowychap]

I know that they buy the gas in advance so how come when the prices went up sharply the gas companies straightaway almost put their prices up ?

Because they didn't. They increased their prices twice last year. First time between Feb and the beginning of April and the second tme was towards the end of August (something which people were predicting would happen before oil price increases and way before they actually happened).

I was watching a select committe questioning of some big cheeses from the leading energy suppliers early last year and at that time, for gas, most of the companies were actually losing money for each therm they supplied to domestic customers.

One of the smaller suppliers (Bizz Energy) was complaining about the barriers to entry into the market because of what they claimed was a lot of cross subsidy for the existing big boys.

cheap poltical points win would be to pledge to impose a windfall tax on them

It might well be but as the prices aren't regulated properly any more cost will filter through to the end user and it won't get paid by the big users either - it will get paid by domestic users and SMEs.

A better idea would be to tell Offgem to return to pre 2002 and regulate the prices.

[snowychap]

doesn't the first energy company release their results soon

Centrica are due 26th Feb. Expect their profits to be pretty healthy.

[Qwpzxjor1]

My mate this morning spent 20 minutes digging his car out of the snow, got 20 metres down the road before skidding off the side of the road and into a bank of snow. He then couldn't move it out again so left his car there and walked back home. He called in to work to tell them what happened and that he couldn't make it, and was told that his work couldn't support people who made no effort to get to work, so he was sacked.

Harsh or what? Is this due to the current climate maybe? I kinda got the feeling that his work was looking for an excuse to get rid of some staff for a while, because I find it very hard to believe that any boss could be that much of a bastard.

[tonyh29]

I was watching a select committe questioning

geek :-)

I heard something similar on the radio from a Gas big cheese saying they didn't pass on the price increases and were taking the hit .... can't say I felt particularly sorry for them though ....

[snowychap]

He called in to work to tell them what happened and that he couldn't make it, and was told that his work couldn't support people who made no effort to get to work, so he was sacked.

Harsh or what?

Harsh? Probably unfair, too.

I can't see that would constitute gross misconduct.

And they'd still have to go through proper disciplinary procedures (unless he was a temp or on some probationary period?).

If your mate allows himself to be treated that way then he is foolish.

[snowychap]

I was watching a select committe questioning

geek :-)

[ianrobo1]

He called in to work to tell them what happened and that he couldn't make it, and was told that his work couldn't support people who made no effort to get to work, so he was sacked.

Harsh or what?

Harsh? Probably unfair, too.

I can't see that would constitute gross misconduct.

And they'd still have to go through proper disciplinary procedures (unless he was a temp or on some probationary period?).

If your mate allows himself to be treated that way then he is foolish.

yep, it is a scare tactic a lot of companies will use

however was he only on a probabtion ?

[snowychap]

No surrender from this monkey. :winkold:

No 10 angered as Nicolas Sarkozy hits out at Gordon Brown's economic 'mistakes'

The French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, has sparked a diplomatic row after disparaging Gordon Brown's response to the economic crisis on French TV.

In a 90-minute interview last night – watched by more than 15 million viewers – the French president said he would not repeat Britain's economic "mistakes".

He added that the prime minister's VAT cut had "absolutely not worked".

The comments will embarrass Brown, who has been at pains to insist that other countries were adopting his "fiscal stimulus" plans.

Today, the shadow chancellor, George Osborne, said: "President Sarkozy is the latest international leader to condemn Gordon Brown's main policy for tackling the recession.

"We said at the time that Brown's flagship VAT cut would only make things worse and would be an expensive failure.

"That view is now echoed not just by British retailers, but by foreign governments, including France, Germany and Holland.

"Gordon Brown claims to have saved the world. It would appear that world leaders increasingly disagree."

The Élysée Palace today attempted to smooth over the incident, assuring Downing Street that Sarkozy's comments were not intended as an attack on British economic policy.

However, a Downing Street spokesman left little doubt about the irritation the criticism had caused at No 10, telling reporters: "The Élysée have been in contact this morning to assure us that these remarks were not meant as a critique of UK economic policy – which is nice."

The spokesman declined to say whether the telephone conversation between officialshad been initiated by London or Paris.

The French president is under pressure over his domestic handling of the financial crisis, with hundreds of thousands of French employees taking part in a general strike last week – the first to hit an industrialised nation since the start of the financial crisis.

Public and private sector workers have been protesting over concerns that Sarkozy is putting business before ordinary workers and failing to do enough to protect jobs and boost workers' low wages.

Challenged last night over his plans to boost the French economy by infrastructure spending rather than tax cuts, Sarkozy said: "Britain is cutting taxes. That will bring them nothing. Consumption continues to decrease in Britain."

Downing Street defended the VAT cut, pointing to a recent report by the independent Institute for Fiscal Studies which described it as a "reasonably effective stimulus".

The report said the measure had prevented sales from falling as far as they would otherwise have done and could be expected to increase purchases by 1.2% over the course of 2009.

"The point about VAT, as we have said all along, is that [the cut] will run for a year, so it is too early to judge the effect it has had.

"We have set out quite clearly the case for the VAT cut, and all along we have said that other countries must take what measures are appropriate for their own economic circumstances ... but the important thing is that we coordinate our response."

Sarkozy's remarks were not the first time that one of Britain's EU partners has questioned the UK's fiscal stimulus package.

Earlier this week, the Dutch finance minister, Wouter Bos, told the FT that the VAT cut was "not a very wise thing to do", adding: "I don't believe it will contribute to a recovery of the economy, whereas it does put pressure on other countries to do the same.

"It's that type of policy response where I would have liked to see a bit more coordination."

[tonyh29]

Harsh or what?

I'd say probably illegal so you mate needs to get on to a solicitor asap

Employers have a duty of care to their employees and a potential liability may exist if employees were pressurised into travelling by car or foot when conditions were dangerous.Employers should take a balanced approach between encouraging employees to make all reasonable efforts to get to work and forcing them into a situation where they feel they have no alternative but to travel to work or risk facing possible disciplinary action.