Team shape, tactics and personnel

[DJBOB]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

I am only being devils advocate, thats all.....but Mings and Buendia was not everyones cup of tea, not long ago.

I am less concerned about personnel and more about collective attitude and set up......if as I have suggested " we don't go after players and just wait for players to make a mistake, if we don't force errors from the opponent and just wait for them to mis place a pass.......what are really expecting to achieve?...........benevolence, a teams off day, a bunch of off form opponents.....what exactly.

If we are to pursue improvement, we have to compete, and that means marking, pressing, and winning the ball in turn overs......it's as clear as daylight to me.......UE has to get them competing, without the ball, not JUST with the ball.

We can all come up with theories as to why these things are not happening, and some could be right.....but that why we are being bullied, because we are failing to bully back...or engaging in it.

Look, if we compete, and lose......who's going to criticise that, better teams are entitled to win....but when discerning fans see quite obvious shortfalls, we're entitled to say so.

He has 2 weeks to address it, and for us to come out fighting....fighting for that ball.

 

They might not have been everyone's cup of tea but now that they're gone, I think people are seeing the giant holes in our team without Mings and Buendia.

I agree to an extent that we need to not let the opposition take initiative, but think you, in particular, will be disappointed if you keep trying to see us as a team that will press and hound like Liverpool and Newcastle - eagerly going man for man to try and create turnovers high up the pitch.

That is - and has not ever been - Unai's style. 

He likes to control the tempo and bait the opponents both out of possession and in possession. This was a complaint from his time at Arsenal and for some when he was hired, that he is a 'reactive' manager. He does not - and has not - gone out for blood and to take the game to the opponent.

[TRO]

On 04/09/2023 at 18:16, Marka Ragnos said:

Respectfully, I think any Villa supporter who believes Unai is going to change his basic approach will find out that's not going to happen, and personally, that's fine with me. He doesn't change tactics due to injuries or fan complaints. End of story. He would be more inclined to coach a younger player into a role and re-constitute his system after an injury, if that makes sense? 

I feel like one has to look at the man's career very closely. That means listening to his interviews in Spanish, where you get a far more complete picture of just who Unai is. I think, in English, Unai can come across as a kind of gentlemanly genius who likes to talk about the Villa "family," etc, but in Spanish, you really get the force of his ambition and self-belief and also the highly structured way he thinks of every inch of the pitch. He's so unlike Gerrard! He never uses "vibes" or "belief" or "playing freely" as substitutes for meticulously detailed planning -- and that perhaps is his Achilles heel, too, but I'll take it. Even if he didn't use a high line, he will still be thinking through how every tooth on every cogwheel matches up with every tooth of every other cogwheel on the pitch. I like it. It's a challenging approach, but with where we're at as a club, overall, I think it's a perfect fit for us.

 

If you think the comments as to why we lost so comprehensively, are aimed at getting rid of our manager.....you are totally wide of the mark.....I am sure you are not suggesting that.

My guess is....he would agree with much of the constructive analysis, many fans/ podcasters have reported, it is fairly unanimous.......all the extreme views have their own place.

These views are not a character assasination, far from it.....they are meant to be observations.

I feel we couldn't have a better man in charge, to put this right.....but put it right he must, and I would wager, he thinks that himself.

He has a career win ratio of 53% and a Villa win ratio of nearly 58% class leading.....He hasn't done that, by playing in to the hands of Newcastle or Liverpool......He knows somethings not right, and he will fix it....how long, who knows.

No one is suggesting, he doesn't know what to do......and that wouldn't be a first among previous managers.

 

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

They might not have been everyone's cup of tea but now that they're gone, I think people are seeing the giant holes in our team without Mings and Buendia.

I agree to an extent that we need to not let the opposition take initiative, but think you, in particular, will be disappointed if you keep trying to see us as a team that will press and hound like Liverpool and Newcastle - eagerly going man for man to try and create turnovers high up the pitch.

That is - and has not ever been - Unai's style. 

He likes to control the tempo and bait the opponents both out of possession and in possession. This was a complaint from his time at Arsenal and for some when he was hired, that he is a 'reactive' manager. He does not - and has not - gone out for blood and to take the game to the opponent.

I am not sure, I entirely agree with that, against Newcastle at home, we did go aggressively after them.....I think we did against Brighton.

I was always under the impression, Unai would morph to suit the opposition and no predictable style was sought....kinda horses for courses....He has been praised for his tactical switches in game, and his ability, spot shifts in impetus and respond. My impression of Unai is a man who can spot faults and deal with them mid game.....Personally, I don't think we are quite the same this season as we was in the later stages of Last season.

I will say this about any manager, not just UE.....if you fail to stop, opposing players from threatening your goal, and see it as an option, to exploit an alternative style to defending with belligerence....disappointment will inevitably court you. It doesn't matter what style you choose, what set up you adopt or what philosophy you decide to employ......if you ship sloppy goals, your team will fall apart.

All the top teams, all the winning teams find a way of nullifying and opponents threat.....thats why generally speaking the best defenders play for the best teams.

Controlling the tempo and baiting players out of possession, will work with the lesser players, but the better ones will scoff at that.....it will require a bit more aggression and ingenuity, than that.

You are almost alluding to a passive approach, to winning games,( mindful of not putting words in to your mouth) that is liable to render a limited success rate, it won't work against the elite.

[DJBOB]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

I am not sure, I entirely agree with that, against Newcastle at home, we did go aggressively after them.....I think we did against Brighton.

I was always under the impression, Unai would morph to suit the opposition and no predictable style was sought....kinda horses for courses....He has been praised for his tactical switches in game, and his ability, spot shifts in impetus and respond. My impression of Unai is a man who can spot faults and deal with them mid game.....Personally, I don't think we are quite the same this season as we was in the later stages of Last season.

I will say this about any manager, not just UE.....if you fail to stop, opposing players from threatening your goal, and see it as an option, to exploit an alternative style to defending with belligerence....disappointment will inevitably court you. It doesn't matter what style you choose, what set up you adopt or what philosophy you decide to employ......if you ship sloppy goals, your team will fall apart.

All the top teams, all the winning teams find a way of nullifying and opponents threat.....thats why generally speaking the best defenders play for the best teams.

Controlling the tempo and baiting players out of possession, will work with the lesser players, but the better ones will scoff at that.....it will require a bit more aggression and ingenuity, than that.

You are almost alluding to a passive approach, to winning games,( mindful of not putting words in to your mouth) that is liable to render a limited success rate, it won't work against the elite.

UE does make tactical changes, but as a philosophy, he is not the gung ho press that you seek.

Yes - against Newcastle and a bit against Brighton last season - we came at them well but part of that is having the right personnel to do so. This is where UE has to swallow his pride and look at the players we have and utilize them accordingly. I'm sure what we all saw against Liverpool is not what UE envisioned on the tactics board that day.

But traditionally - UE aims to stifle the opponents instead of forcing the issue up the field. He was the same way at Valencia, Sevilla, PSG, Arssenal, Villareal, and at Villa last season.

Is this a weakness? Perhaps. Our record when going a goal down is not impressive (though it never is for any coach). We have, with intent, scored early and then frustrated opponents into mistakes with a mid block/high line or with a very effective low block.

For me - Liverpool and Klopp, in particular, are a very specific poison to Unai's system. A team that is happily content in launching long balls and then also content with an unsustainable press as long as they win in the opening stages. But Pep's worst nemesis is also Klopp - who has a coaching philosophy and team specifically suited to tearing apart teams like Unai's and Pep's.

[TRO]

42 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

UE does make tactical changes, but as a philosophy, he is not the gung ho press that you seek.

Yes - against Newcastle and a bit against Brighton last season - we came at them well but part of that is having the right personnel to do so. This is where UE has to swallow his pride and look at the players we have and utilize them accordingly. I'm sure what we all saw against Liverpool is not what UE envisioned on the tactics board that day.

But traditionally - UE aims to stifle the opponents instead of forcing the issue up the field. He was the same way at Valencia, Sevilla, PSG, Arssenal, Villareal, and at Villa last season.

Is this a weakness? Perhaps. Our record when going a goal down is not impressive (though it never is for any coach). We have, with intent, scored early and then frustrated opponents into mistakes with a mid block/high line or with a very effective low block.

For me - Liverpool and Klopp, in particular, are a very specific poison to Unai's system. A team that is happily content in launching long balls and then also content with an unsustainable press as long as they win in the opening stages. But Pep's worst nemesis is also Klopp - who has a coaching philosophy and team specifically suited to tearing apart teams like Unai's and Pep's.

That might not be a good interpretation of my intended view....more a group strategic Press, was in my thoughts.....and I also appreciate, you can't do it ( energy wise) for the whole game....just enough to steal the initiative and score the necessary goals to win the game.

I am not suggesting at all....Unai got exactly what he expected from the team.....I think Ollie thought the Liverpool team had Covid, I am sure Unai was not expecting that lacklustre offering, from his front man. ...I thought he was doing one of those, courting dances the birds do, in front of their centre backs, idly running to and fro between,  them shadow pressing for effect.

My limited knowledge of European football from a concise point of view.....kinda expected UE to have teams miserly in conceding goals, as was eloquently displayed with us last season.

However, how  a manager chooses to do it, is not my beef....but do it we must....The defeat was not a major issue, to me,  I didn't expect to win, but the manner of the defeat, is a whole different ball game, pardon the pun.

your line about our record of going a goal down, throws up another bunch of questions....but I think back to his( UE) observation of only 10 % of the work is done.....it is starting to become clearer, and that is not meant to be smug.

I accept Klopp is a top class coach, but even he has some rocky moments in the past struggling to explain some of Liverpools darker games....he couldn't quite explain the 7-2 could he, accept in my view his disrespect of not closing us down that day, reared its ugly head against him....he put that right on sunday, by respecting us to the point, they stopped us playing.....then went on to play a very unsophisticated method of winning a game, by a fundamental style, that should theoretically be negated.

I sometimes get confused with football opinions....I was not long ago folk were pouring scorn on the long ball, and suggesting it was dim mangers way of winning a game....and here we are on the end of it. We was against Man U in the cup last season, we was against Newcastle in both away games....its not a case of being caught in the head lights, its more a case of not dealing with the obvious.

Many folk, you included, have candidly said, when you seen the team sheet, line up, you immediately had reservations of our ability to get anything....I was the same, I just stayed shtum, in fear of peeing anyone off....but it worrying when some of us can see it in advance.

right now, I am just waiting for the next game ( Crystal Palace) but unless we have players who are going to MAKE things happen as opposed to witing for something to happen, i envisage a similar conversation.

Edited September 5, 2023 by TRO

[DJBOB]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

That might not be a good interpretation of my intended view....more a strategic Press, was in my thoughts.....and I also appreciate, you can't do it ( energy wise) for the whole game....just enough to steal the initiative and score the necessary goals to win the game.

I am not suggesting at all....Unai got exactly what he expected from the team.....I think Ollie thought the Liverpool team had Covid, I am sure Unai was not expecting that lacklustre offering, from his front man.

My limited knowledge of European football from a concise point of view.....kinda expected UE to have teams miserly in conceding goals, as was eloquently displayed last season.

However, how  a manager chooses to do it, is not my beef....but do it we must....The defeat was not a major issue, to me,  I didn't expect to win, but the manner of the defeat, is a whole different ball game, pardon the pun.

your line about our record of going a goal down, throws up another bunch of questions....but I think back to his( UE) observation of only 10 % of the work is done.....it is starting to become clearer, and that is not meant to be smug.

I accept Klopp is a top class coach, but even he has some rocky moments in the past struggling to explain some of Liverpools darker games....he couldn't quite explain the 7-2 could he, accept in my view his disrespect of not closing us down that day, reared its ugly head against him....he put that right on sunday, by respecting us to the point, they stopped us playing.....then went on to play a very unsophisticated method of winning a game, by a fundamental style, that should theoretically be negated.

I sometimes get confused with football opinions....I was not long ago folk were pouring scorn on the long ball, and suggesting it was dim mangers way of winning a game....and here we are on the end of it. We was against Man U in the cup last season, we was against Newcastle in both away games....its not a case of being caught in the head lights, its more a case of not dealing with the obvious.

Many folk, you included, have candidly said, when you seen the team sheet, line up, you immediately had reservations of our ability to get anything....I was the same, I just stayed shtum, in fear of peeing anyone off....but it worrying when some of us can see it in advance.

right now, I am just waiting for the next game ( Crystal Palace) but unless we have players who are going to MAKE things happen as opposed to witing for something to happen, i envisage a similar conversation.

Yes it's unfortunate but that is how managers like Klopp and Unai are. Their belief in their philosophy is strong, to the point of stubbornness when the personnel doesn't quite fit what they want to do. Liverpool's dark days are exemplified by Nat Philips, who has the pace of a tortoise, trying to play Liverpool's high line. When we went away last year - Liverpool's midfield was Fabinho, Henderson, and Jones - two of which now play in the Saudi league. The difference in midfield was stark on Sunday. Unai is experiencing similar problems now that he is without his key players as well. He will adapt and figure it out - but like you - I am queasy right now when waiting for the team sheet - as it is still a mystery as to which XI and where they play is our best unit.

[CVByrne]

I think we should try Diaby in RM and McGinn off Watkins with Konsa at RB. I think against the top sides McGinn centrally like that offers more off the ball and Diaby has an easier job in terms of oof the ball workrate from RM. I think he's played as the second striker the most so far due to injuries. IT feels the more natural place for Zaniolo who is very good off the ball and is used to working there as he did under Mourinho.

It'll be interesting how we adapt to different opposition when we've players back to fitness.

[TRO]

13 hours ago, DJBOB said:

Yes it's unfortunate but that is how managers like Klopp and Unai are. Their belief in their philosophy is strong, to the point of stubbornness when the personnel doesn't quite fit what they want to do. Liverpool's dark days are exemplified by Nat Philips, who has the pace of a tortoise, trying to play Liverpool's high line. When we went away last year - Liverpool's midfield was Fabinho, Henderson, and Jones - two of which now play in the Saudi league. The difference in midfield was stark on Sunday. Unai is experiencing similar problems now that he is without his key players as well. He will adapt and figure it out - but like you - I am queasy right now when waiting for the team sheet - as it is still a mystery as to which XI and where they play is our best unit.

for me, I would consider using Dendoncker in the midfield holding role, to steady the ship.....He is not the best ball player, but could give us an opportunity to stop runners a bit better. We have have some players who can nullify the initiative of the opposing team.

However, I was always of the opinion, that UE would select a team designed to maximise our performance, based on the opposition....so in effect, its likely to change accordingly.

I don't really understand the thinking, last Sunday, unless he was caught in 2 minds, it can happen....I was surprised by the perceived naivety....I dont think we adopted/considered enough protection to the new players settling in.

Edited September 6, 2023 by TRO

[sheepyvillian]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

for me, I would consider using Dendoncker in the midfield holding role, to steady the ship.....He is not the best ball player, but could give us an opportunity to stop runners a bit better. We have have some players who can nullify the initiative of the opposing team.

Even today, I am still at a complete loss at why we would give a player as talented as Trent Alexander so much time and space. You didn't need to be tactically adept to realise the danger that possessed, it was glaringly obvious. 

[TRO]

39 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

Even today, I am still at a complete loss at why we would give a player as talented as Trent Alexander so much time and space. You didn't need to be tactically adept to realise the danger that possessed, it was glaringly obvious. 

Me too sheepy......I don't want to labour the point, and I don't want zoom in on the manager......but I am staggered at the approach....That performance for me was NOT representative of the Unai Emery, I have got to rever.

The set up last season made complete sense to me....The away strategy at Spurs and Chelsea, seems abandoned to me, in the 2 away games against Newcastle and Liverpool.

We can only sit back and watch to see what he does to combat, this open football, that has us dismantled against the better sides.

I have many thoughts and opinions and one is are we getting a bit too carried away, with our ability to score goals against the lesser sides, and think we can take that approach in to games against the stronger sides.....I don't know, but there seems to be a significant disparity with us playing lesser sides to stronger sides.....The big teams particularly away have to be given respect, and that means, trying to resist them playing their "A" game....I didn't see any signs of that on Sunday, it was just open season.

I will go as far as to say, Liverpool need to be careful, they don't fall in to a false sense of security, of thinking that all teams will be so benevolent as us.

[gwi1890]

17 minutes ago, TRO said:

Me too sheepy......I don't want to labour the point, and I don't want zoom in on the manager......but I am staggered at the approach....That performance for me was NOT representative of the Unai Emery, I have got to rever.

The set up last season made complete sense to me....The away strategy at Spurs and Chelsea, seems abandoned to me, in the 2 away games against Newcastle and Liverpool.

We can only sit back and watch to see what he does to combat, this open football, that has us dismantled against the better sides.

I have many thoughts and opinions and one is are we getting a bit too carried away, with our ability to score goals against the lesser sides, and think we can take that approach in to games against the stronger sides.....I don't know, but there seems to be a significant disparity with us playing lesser sides to stronger sides.....The big teams particularly away have to be given respect, and that means, trying to resist them playing their "A" game....I didn't see any signs of that on Sunday, it was just open season.

I will go as far as to say, Liverpool need to be careful, they don't fall in to a false sense of security, of thinking that all teams will be so benevolent as us.

I think he’s brought in players with the idea of dominating possession which is 100% they way to go at home especially against lesser opponents. But any of the tougher teams away from home we should be shi*housing our way to victory with a solid defensive base.

[DJBOB]

1 hour ago, sheepyvillian said:

Even today, I am still at a complete loss at why we would give a player as talented as Trent Alexander so much time and space. You didn't need to be tactically adept to realise the danger that possessed, it was glaringly obvious. 

The simple answer is that Unai got outdone tactically. My opinion is that he doesn’t trust his team yet. 
 
Both Liverpool and Newcastle relied on the same blueprint - vacate the middle where we are strongest. They often had only one player in the middle third vertically of the field in our half.

Build with 4 or 5 at the back so that they have numbers against our counter.

Force our fullbacks into foot races. 
 
Look at the image below. We have 4 vs 2 in the midfield when it’s unneeded. It is a conundrum he has to solve because I suspect teams with elite runners (like Brighton and to a lesser extent Chelsea) will continue this tactic of vacating the middle. 

Edited September 6, 2023 by DJBOB

[TRO]

31 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

I think he’s brought in players with the idea of dominating possession which is 100% they way to go at home especially against lesser opponents. But any of the tougher teams away from home we should be shi*housing our way to victory with a solid defensive base.

.....and absolutely no beef with that.

As you may well glean from my comments, so much of what UE has done has been marvellous....but we are talking about 2 particular recent away games.....which has not been representative of our managers style, and that is the issue, puzzling us.

I ask you the question?.....How many players in the squad, do you think are comfortable, with that emboldened suggestion?.....How many do you think, are able to shut up shop, and work the counter attack, with stealth and savvy?

I think its very noble to go about our business, with a focus on ability on the ball, and it has been needed....but to have any lofty aspirations, the squad need players who can cover all eventualities...thats what balance is.

For sure, we have a long way to go and these 2 games have shown our shortfalls.....on a happier note, its probably 2 of the worst away fixtures out of the way, and probably the predictable results most us would have selected.

If we didn't have any problems to solve.....we wouldn't need Unai Emery....this is what he gets a hefty salary for, and this is what has him as the man we have come to rely on to fix stuff.

Edited September 6, 2023 by TRO

[TRO]

23 hours ago, DJBOB said:

The simple answer is that Unai got outdone tactically. My opinion is that he doesn’t trust his team yet. 
 
Both Liverpool and Newcastle relied on the same blueprint - vacate the middle where we are strongest. They often had only one player in the middle third vertically of the field in our half.

Build with 4 or 5 at the back so that they have numbers against our counter.

Force our fullbacks into foot races. 
 
Look at the image below. We have 4 vs 2 in the midfield when it’s unneeded. It is a conundrum he has to solve because I suspect teams with elite runners (like Brighton and to a lesser extent Chelsea) will continue this tactic of vacating the middle. 

I agree.

Many teams will have looked at our ability to capitulate against such basic tactics.....and plan to do the same, that is a new challenge we face.

There is a couple of things that go through my head.

• I refuse to believe that UE can be so naive, as the game suggested....I choose to think something went awry he did not envisage.
• when the intellects of the game, choose to wallow in complexity, where does the fundaments of this plan sit....you don't need to be an elite coach, to exploit this..... This is the tactics of a Parks team.
• In that image.....why did Ollie seem to think standing off was so acceptable....he had time to give TAA  a round of applause....I would love to know his response to that claim....I have seen him isolated a lot just lately, is it partly his own doing and not looking to make something happen....He seems a bit sorry for himself, needs to find some internal motivation/aggression with himself.
• why is Diaz goal side of Matty Cash, when a ball is about to be launched down the wing, he is leaving himself a lot to do in a foot race....Maybe we are not sharp enough at the offside trap.
• Is Nunez Offside?

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by TRO

[TRO]

I think with Mings out....many teams will look at the profile of our centre Backs and Full Backs and adopt a long ball strategy.

In years of old, such a plan would be deemed as unsophisticated and basic....many would say, our CBs will just gobble up the ball, if they do that.

sadly, this modern approach/set up seems to favour the ball playing centre back, with little or scant consideration for the above.....opposing teams will always look for weakness or Vulnerability, that's why the top teams eliminate as many as them as possible.

We are work in progress, so my opinion moving forward is we need to look at this with prudence and careful thought.

We can't keep thinking we can play our way out of trouble, particularly against the better teams.

 

 

[DJBOB]

50 minutes ago, TRO said:

I agree.

Many teams will have looked at our ability to capitulate against such basic tactics.....and plan to do the same, that is a new challenge we face.

There is a couple of things that go through my head.

• I refuse to believe that UE can be so naive, as the game suggested....I choose to think something went awry he did not envisage.
• when the intellects of the game, choose to wallow in complexity, where does the fundaments of this plan sit....you don't need to be an elite coach, it exploit this..... This is the tactics of a Parks team.
• In that image.....why did Ollie seem to think standing off was so acceptable....he had time to give TAA  a round of applause....I would love to know his response to that claim....I have seen him isolated a lot just lately, is it partly his own doing and not looking to make something happen....He seems a bit sorry for himself, needs to find some internal motivation/aggression with himself.
• why is Diaz goal side of Matty Cash, when a ball is about to be launched down the wing, he is leaving himself a lot to do in a foot race....Maybe we are not sharp enough at the offside trap.
• Is Nunez Offside?

 

- Not even UE is immune to the struggles of adapting a new XI - but as I have alluded to before - Villa have struggled as a whole when we go behind early. It is a rarity as we have often scored first under UE but the gameplan can easily be shake with a goal in the second minute 

- Pressing is a team game. Ollie could press TAA but to what point - TAA can easily pass to any of the options next to him and receive the ball back. In the Ollie thread, I mentioned that he looks frustrated with his teammates when pressing. Last year, he was pressing alongside McGinn, JJ, and Buendia. It is not the same without the quartet in their specific places

- Diaz in that position is okay. He is central and can be handled by either Konsa/Cash/Martinez coming out. This is the sort of “long ball” that is derided because it is easy to mark

- Nunez is offside but the ball is played to Salah first who is onside

I remember I had conversations with you around the time of the Leicester/City/Arsenal mini-run of losses where you had the same concerns you’re voicing now and I would echo the same thing I said. 

While the manner of defeat is discouraging, I would encourage everyone to not get bogged down by individual games. The Newcastle score line was not reflective of the game as a whole. We performed much worse against Liverpool even though it was only a 3-0 loss. 
 
Tip our hats to Liverpool. They lack an elite finisher otherwise this team, healthy, would be title contenders. 

We will have many games this season and especially in the conference league, we will be the better team for most of them. I believe that is what UE has constructed this squad for. Our litmus test will not be beating Liverpool away - it will be to break down these low blocks in whatever country we are playing in Europe where we are coming in as the favorites. 

[DJBOB]

Interesting to see some of the underlyings gradually improving even though it's the dreaded xG stat that divides opinion.

Also puts kind of a focus that Unai seeks to improve our attacking output because our defensive statistics have remained largely the same (we have not become that much harder to beat). And poor Deano - had it all going right until the team imploded without Grealish in early 2022.

[MWARLEY2]

Just a thought. Since he came in Emery has bought and loaned 7 players in. And of those 7 only Tielemans isn't left footed  . Whats the obsession with left footers or is he trying to level up to have more of an equal number of left and right footedl options in the squad.  

[eholm]

Like others I am trying to figure out Unai’s reasons for the approach he took on Sunday. After listening to his pre and post match, he regularly stated his ‘excitement’ at facing Liverpool with our ‘style and structure’.

Could it be that he really wanted to see exactly how we would perform playing in the same way as we had in the previous 2 games…..a benchmark test as it were to see where we are right now? It’s early in the season so plenty of time to recover if it didn’t work out. I get the feeling that Unai would prefer not to be low block ultra defensive in any away game (particularly vs the top teams) as it diffuses his raison d’etre….control. Ideally he wants us to have fairly similar styles irrespective of opponent/venue etc. 

Clearly it didn’t work so he now knows we have to return to a more pragmatic approach when the opponent dictates. 

[DJBOB]

37 minutes ago, eholm said:

Like others I am trying to figure out Unai’s reasons for the approach he took on Sunday. After listening to his pre and post match, he regularly stated his ‘excitement’ at facing Liverpool with our ‘style and structure’.

Could it be that he really wanted to see exactly how we would perform playing in the same way as we had in the previous 2 games…..a benchmark test as it were to see where we are right now? It’s early in the season so plenty of time to recover if it didn’t work out. I get the feeling that Unai would prefer not to be low block ultra defensive in any away game (particularly vs the top teams) as it diffuses his raison d’etre….control. Ideally he wants us to have fairly similar styles irrespective of opponent/venue etc. 

Clearly it didn’t work so he now knows we have to return to a more pragmatic approach when the opponent dictates. 

I don't think so. We have played Liverpool in a fairly similar way each time we have faced them and I don't think Unai will adjust his approach.

Nor do I think he really should.

But sometimes the game just has different ideas. Facing Liverpool on even ground 0-0 even 15 minutes in will dictate a different approach than down 0-1 after 2 minutes. That's just the nature of playing from behind. With Liverpool up 1-0, they could afford to sit back and let Villa try to come and get it - opening us up with their speedsters. Conversely, they could do what they did - waited patiently behind with a numerical advantage at the back and let Trent try to pick ball after ball because we were caught in two minds between pressing and dropping.

This - in combination with Diego's injury - forcing us to adjust our shape (which Unai specifically commented on) caused us to be slow in figuring out how to break their press. We did it a few times and were not clinical enough with our few chances (Bailey/Watkins fluffing it is the major one).

The team that scores first wins 65% - even harder when you're facing a team like Liverpool.