Team shape, tactics and personnel

[DJBOB]

1 hour ago, villan95 said:

So it looks like plan B is a sort of 3-4-3 then? The last 2 matches we seem to have gone to 3 central defenders and wingbacks for the last 20-30 minutes.

I don’t think that was the intention against Newcastle. Matter of circumstance gone awry. 
 
But in possession, it allows for a lot of control with 3 ball confident center backs, 2 holding mids (I think Chambers was coming on for Kamara), and then two wingbacks. Spreads the width of the formation and allows striker isolation if the opponent presses. 
 
Out of possession, you have 3 CB’s, two fullbacks, two center mids that can form a myriad of back line shapes as well as two or one strikers. 
  

Cash - Konsa - Diego - Pau - LB

Kamara - Luiz

McGinn - Watkins

That’s going to be a tough nut to break.

[villan95]

41 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

I don’t think that was the intention against Newcastle. Matter of circumstance gone awry. 
 
But in possession, it allows for a lot of control with 3 ball confident center backs, 2 holding mids (I think Chambers was coming on for Kamara), and then two wingbacks. Spreads the width of the formation and allows striker isolation if the opponent presses. 
 
Out of possession, you have 3 CB’s, two fullbacks, two center mids that can form a myriad of back line shapes as well as two or one strikers. 
  

Cash - Konsa - Diego - Pau - LB

Kamara - Luiz

McGinn - Watkins

That’s going to be a tough nut to break.

I think at Newcastle we did go something like this for the last half hour:

       Konsa - Carlos - Pau

Cash   Kamara   Luiz   Digne

It looks like it's something Unai is going to change to in certain situations considering we have seen it already in both matches. I wonder if he decided to do it v Everton once the game was won just to try and build some confidence and understanding with the shape rather than it being specifically for that situation.

[Anything11]

cash stepped into midfield as inverted fullback and digne came back into the backline when defending toward the end

[CVByrne]

Konsa moved to RB and Cash moved up to RM. I think we had a flat back 4 in build up for the first part of the game. I also felt both full backs were given licence to attack to get the overloads. So had more a 2 3 5 / 2 2 6 feel in attack. 

Away at Burnley will be interesting to see how we set up. I also feel Ramsey/Moreno back in left will see us improve a lot over Digne and an out of position McGinn. 

[Mark Albrighton]

Not sure where to ask, but as it’s ultimately personnel I guess it could go here.

Philogene, Archer and A.Ramsey possibly all going, who does that leave us with for the homegrown quota for Europe - Ramsey, Iroegbunam and Kellyman?

Or are we just not going to have a full squad for Europe?

[DJBOB]

6 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said:

Not sure where to ask, but as it’s ultimately personnel I guess it could go here.

Philogene, Archer and A.Ramsey possibly all going, who does that leave us with for the homegrown quota for Europe - Ramsey, Iroegbunam and Kellyman?

Or are we just not going to have a full squad for Europe?

Forget the qualifications for homegrown abut possibly Konsa or Chambers?

[Mark Albrighton]

9 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

Forget the qualifications for homegrown abut possibly Konsa or Chambers?

I am assuming the below is correct 

On 09/08/2023 at 22:11, ferguson1 said:

In the Europa Conference League, eight squad places in list A are reserved for "locally trained players" or homegrown players, which are either: club-trained players on a club’s books for three years between the ages of 15 and 21, or association-trained players, who are on another club’s books in the same association for three years between the ages of 15 and 21.

No club can have more than four association-trained players among their eight locally trained players, meaning there must be at least four club-trained players. 

Amongst Villa's homegrown players, who have made appearances since last season, only Jacob Ramsey and Cameron Archer are club-trained players. While Jacob Ramsey is certain to be included in the squad, Emery must select another three club-trained players to use in his play-off and group stage squads.

If so, then neither Konsa or Chambers count towards the club trained players, but they would for association trained players.

Maybe the idea is not to utilise the full 25. It would surprise me, it’s a lot of fixtures, we already have a few injuries. 

Unless I’m forgetting an obvious club trained player(s) who will be used.
 

[CVByrne]

27 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said:

Not sure where to ask, but as it’s ultimately personnel I guess it could go here.

Philogene, Archer and A.Ramsey possibly all going, who does that leave us with for the homegrown quota for Europe - Ramsey, Iroegbunam and Kellyman?

Or are we just not going to have a full squad for Europe?

The quota thing is not a quota. We don't have to have x amount of players to be home grown etc..

Any 17 players can be registered. Then 4 additional can be registered if they're home association players and then 4 additional players can be registered if they're home grown. This is for senior players only. 

Any player under 21 who has been at Villa for at least 2 years doesn't need to be registered. They can play in any games. 

So our youth players don't take any places they are automatically able to play. 

[Jas10]

 

[Monkeypuzzle]

10 hours ago, DJBOB said:

I don’t think that was the intention against Newcastle. Matter of circumstance gone awry. 
 
But in possession, it allows for a lot of control with 3 ball confident center backs, 2 holding mids (I think Chambers was coming on for Kamara), and then two wingbacks. Spreads the width of the formation and allows striker isolation if the opponent presses. 
 
Out of possession, you have 3 CB’s, two fullbacks, two center mids that can form a myriad of back line shapes as well as two or one strikers. 
  

Cash - Konsa - Diego - Pau - LB

Kamara - Luiz

McGinn - Watkins

That’s going to be a tough nut to break.

Only nine outfield players?

 

[Mark Albrighton]

48 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

The quota thing is not a quota. We don't have to have x amount of players to be home grown etc..

Any 17 players can be registered. Then 4 additional can be registered if they're home association players and then 4 additional players can be registered if they're home grown. This is for senior players only. 

Any player under 21 who has been at Villa for at least 2 years doesn't need to be registered. They can play in any games. 

So our youth players don't take any places they are automatically able to play. 

But if we want 25 players available for Europe, 4 of them have to be from the youth set up. So that’s the likes of Archer.

To my mind, that is a quota. It’s not a compulsory one in the sense we can use fewer players. But I would have thought we would want as many as possible in order to combat the heavy fixture schedule.

If Archer or similar isn’t about, who would be the players from youth set up who would feature for us? I’m assuming if Archer who I personally think could do a job against the weaker opposition in Europe isn’t deemed useful, who is? 

[CVByrne]

4 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said:

But if we want 25 players available for Europe, 4 of them have to be from the youth set up. So that’s the likes of Archer.

To my mind, that is a quota. It’s not a compulsory one in the sense we can use fewer players. But I would have thought we would want as many as possible in order to combat the heavy fixture schedule.

If Archer or similar isn’t about, who would be the players from youth set up who would feature for us? I’m assuming if Archer who I personally think could do a job against the weaker opposition in Europe isn’t deemed useful, who is? 

No, the 4 you are discussing there they need to be older than 21 and home grown. So Archer takes up no space in squad at all as he is 21 and home grown. 

The 25 quota + all under 22yo players who have been with club for 2 years+ 

We only have 1 player at our football club who is older than 21 and home grown. Jacob Ramsey. So our squad for Europe will be 22 players + all our u21 squad who don't go on loan

[Mark Albrighton]

6 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

No, the 4 you are discussing there they need to be older than 21 and home grown. So Archer takes up no space in squad at all as he is 21 and home grown. 

The 25 quota + all under 22yo players who have been with club for 2 years+ 

We only have 1 player at our football club who is older than 21 and home grown. Jacob Ramsey. So our squad for Europe will be 22 players + all our u21 squad who don't go on loan

Right I’m with you now. Thank you.

I suppose my thought is still, Ok you don’t think Archer (say) isn’t up to it in Europe, who is? What’s the rotation going to look like?

[CVByrne]

So squad will have 4 attackers, 8 midfielders, 7 defenders, 2 GKs + the youth players. Duran is not home grown so takes a space

We'll probably add another player to squad before end of window. That takes us to 22. Mings and Buendia won't be in squad. Can be added in Jan if needed

[TRO]

These few games have thrown up an Interesting watch for me....It was great to get back to winning ways, and delighted with the comprehensive way we went about our business, but I am not getting carried away. I am not dismissing Everton either, with such damning,remarks that their fans do,  it was not long ago they was dismantling the new golden boys Brighton with a 5-1win

but, These games threw up a host of different elements to get intereted in for me.....but one aspect stood out for me.

Newcastle v Aston Villa

Man City v Newcastle

Aston Villa v Everton

Newcastle ran riot against us, but failed to do that against Man City a few days later....Contrastingly we ran riot against Everton, after struggling against Newcastle a few days later.

Now I accept folk will have their own take on this, but for me there was a common denominator, in all thos games.....Pressure.

Newcastle put us under Pressure, Man City put Newcastle under pressure and we put Everton Under Pressure.....Now there is clearly a distinction in the ability of all 4 teams....but for me, Pressure is at the centre of it all..and who applied it, had a bearing on the respective results.

We are amongst some of the best teams in the country, when we are not pressed, Newcastle and Man City press most teams.....We do it now and again.....but our game faulters at times, when we are put under.

We still have a way to go, to mix it with these top teams, and pressing is a part of that improvement.....Its not a criticism, far from it, its an observation, and I am not saying its the only thing or only element to consider.....but I think its one thing, worth mentioning.

Edited August 21, 2023 by TRO

[TRO]

I would be interested to know, from fellow posters, why, it seems that the tactic of leaving one player up near the halway line for defensive corners, has died.....Thoughts?

When the ball breaks, surely its a huge advantage to have a player ( like Gabby used to do) to play a forward ball to a quick player in such an advantageous position.....Now we have quick players to capitalise.

There would inevitably be an opposing defender dragged out of the pack, in order to mark him....so the numbers would be the same.

I don't know why this was dropped by most teams, other than fashion.....i.e if one does it, so they all do it.....if One doesn't do it, so they all don't do it....and we know who the one is.

If we are to be trail blazers as opposed to followers, we should bring it back.

[DJBOB]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

I would be interested to know, from fellow posters, why, it seems that the tactic of leaving one player up near the halway line for defensive corners, has died.....Thoughts?

When the ball breaks, surely its a huge advantage to have a player ( like Gabby used to do) to play a forward ball to a quick player in such an advantageous position.....Now we have quick players to capitalise.

There would inevitably be an opposing defender dragged out of the pack, in order to mark him....so the numbers would be the same.

I don't know why this was dropped by most teams, other than fashion.....i.e if one does it, so they all do it.....if One doesn't do it, so they all don't do it....and we know who the one is.

If we are to be trail blazers as opposed to followers, we should bring it back.

Blame the statisticians. 
 
I don’t recall the exact numbers but the chances of scoring from a set piece corner are so high that most teams prioritize defending with everyone available. 

[TRO]

14 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

Blame the statisticians. 
 
I don’t recall the exact numbers but the chances of scoring from a set piece corner are so high that most teams prioritize defending with everyone available. 

Thanks.....Interesting....I'm surprised, but bow to the power of the Stats.

Edited August 21, 2023 by TRO

[Vive_La_Villa]

I think the problem is we are now one of the best of the the rest so whilst we’ll smash teams like Everton we will have tight games against teams around and struggle against teams above us.  It’s why players like Digne and Bailey can look great one day and pants a week later.
 

It’s something fans will need to get to grips with and then won’t be so distraught and attack half our players when we lose games.

[CVByrne]

54 minutes ago, TRO said:

I would be interested to know, from fellow posters, why, it seems that the tactic of leaving one player up near the halway line for defensive corners, has died.....Thoughts?

When the ball breaks, surely its a huge advantage to have a player ( like Gabby used to do) to play a forward ball to a quick player in such an advantageous position.....Now we have quick players to capitalise.

There would inevitably be an opposing defender dragged out of the pack, in order to mark him....so the numbers would be the same.

I don't know why this was dropped by most teams, other than fashion.....i.e if one does it, so they all do it.....if One doesn't do it, so they all don't do it....and we know who the one is.

If we are to be trail blazers as opposed to followers, we should bring it back.

I feel because of how good keepers are at being sweeper. So if you have a lone player near halfway line for a quick long ball the keeper has a good chance of cutting it out by racing off line to get it. Add to that and a defender will be on your player too. It's a low % play from turnover possession. Teams prefer to get ball to creative players and the team break as a unit.