bickster Posted August 21, 2021 Moderator Share Posted August 21, 2021 13 minutes ago, limpid said: Good to hear. However, the typical UK model of pretending PH drivers are not employees is just as dodgy. Thats a whole different debate and one that has only been tested once and Uber lost but currently as the law stands each case has to be treated on its own merits and it the Uber case in the UK will have little bearing on other cases due to the differences in the way other companies operate. The only other case I know of was regarding Deliveroo and Deliveroo won that one, their delivery people were ruled to be self-employed because they were allowed to substitute workers to replace them. That will come into play in some potential future cases. The problem with the UK is, no party in power has the time or inclination to push taxi legislation through parliament. It was even tabled by the Law Commission and it's sunk without a trace. Even that though didn't seek to change the status of workers in the industry because it recognised it would make the playing field uneven between the two sides of the industry. Given the current situation (nationwide shortage of drivers) I doubt anything will happen any time soon because those currently self-employed drivers are earning a bucketload of money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted August 21, 2021 Administrator Share Posted August 21, 2021 26 minutes ago, bickster said: Thats a whole different debate and one that has only been tested once and Uber lost but currently as the law stands each case has to be treated on its own merits and it the Uber case in the UK will have little bearing on other cases due to the differences in the way other companies operate. The only other case I know of was regarding Deliveroo and Deliveroo won that one, their delivery people were ruled to be self-employed because they were allowed to substitute workers to replace them. That will come into play in some potential future cases. The problem with the UK is, no party in power has the time or inclination to push taxi legislation through parliament. It was even tabled by the Law Commission and it's sunk without a trace. Even that though didn't seek to change the status of workers in the industry because it recognised it would make the playing field uneven between the two sides of the industry. Given the current situation (nationwide shortage of drivers) I doubt anything will happen any time soon because those currently self-employed drivers are earning a bucketload of money No new legislation is needed. it is all be covered by IR35. HMRC are currently working through logistics companies after starting with IT consultants about 20 years ago. I doubt the taxi trade will be far behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 21, 2021 Moderator Share Posted August 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, limpid said: No new legislation is needed. it is all be covered by IR35. HMRC are currently working through logistics companies after starting with IT consultants about 20 years ago. I doubt the taxi trade will be far behind. Not so sure it applies Quote Who is an employment intermediary An employment intermediary is a person or business who arranges for someone to work for a third person. They are also often known as an ‘agency’ or ‘employment business’. You are an employment intermediary if you supply workers to work for a client or another employment intermediary, and the client then pays you or someone connected to you for the worker’s services. The client is who the worker does the work for. .gov That applies to the likes of Uber but not to the traditional PH model. Payments are direct to worker by client. Worker pays operator for access to platform and can work as much or as little as he likes. Traditional PH Operators are not Intermediaries in the government definition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted August 21, 2021 Administrator Share Posted August 21, 2021 14 minutes ago, bickster said: Not so sure it applies .gov That applies to the likes of Uber but not to the traditional PH model. Payments are direct to worker by client. Worker pays operator for access to platform and can work as much or as little as he likes. Traditional PH Operators are not Intermediaries in the government definition They made it apply to IT consultants when those consultants were payrolled employees of their own limited companies. They completely ignored the mountains of precedent confirming that they were entirely separate legal entities. This means it would affect drivers even if they have set up their own limited company. I guess we'll see. It would just be nice if they;d go after the multinationals who legally don't have to pay tax though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 21, 2021 Moderator Share Posted August 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, limpid said: It would just be nice if they;d go after the multinationals who legally don't have to pay tax though. Absolutely agree with that bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 10, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, StanBalaban said: Cameron, Osbourne and Johnson should be in there too. Oops. We're scheduled to be in court against them in November We believe TfL are watching our case closely for some reason. It’s also rumoured that TfL are going after them again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 Quote The leak spans a five-year period when Uber was run by its co-founder Travis Kalanick, who tried to force the cab-hailing service into cities around the world, even if that meant breaching laws and taxi regulations. https://tinyurl.com/3p3ktteb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 11, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 11, 2022 29 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: https://tinyurl.com/3p3ktteb Is there a point you are trying to make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 11, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 11, 2022 From the Guardian article linked above Quote Uber’s spokesperson said that, when it started, “ridesharing regulations did not exist anywhere in the world” and transport laws were outdated for a smartphone era. How very tedious. It's a blatant lie. The UK has had a secondary taxi tier , legally and regulated since the introduction of the Miscellaneous Provisions(Local Government) Act of 1976 The UK is not the only country to have this secondary tier. The Republic of Ireland also does except confusingly a Taxi is a Hackney Carriage and a Hackney Carriage is what we call a Private Hire Vehicle. There are others too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 1 hour ago, bickster said: Is there a point you are trying to make? As a pretty well qualified Lefty, I am always interested in the shenanigans of big Capital, and I just wondered whether the accusations were true or not. If you say not, I'll take your word for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 11, 2022 Moderator Share Posted July 11, 2022 26 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: As a pretty well qualified Lefty, I am always interested in the shenanigans of big Capital, and I just wondered whether the accusations were true or not. If you say not, I'll take your word for it. What on earth are you on about? I've said no such thing. I was wondering why you were posting the story given that it was posted yesterday literally two posts above yours. I thought there may be some point you were making, a new revelation for example. Like George Osbourne being named with 6 other unnamed Tory MPs, which the BBC story conveniently ommitted (because the Osborne meeting was documented but hey the other 6 weren't). You also only have to look at where Uber was getting its money from around this time and where Osborne / Tories were getting donations from to realise it was all a bit iffy If you actually read this topic, I can absolutely guarantee you will never find a post of mine that views them in a positive light. In fact this story just confirms what I was saying around 2016 Hell right now, our company is going head to head with them in a court case in November. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 28, 2023 Moderator Share Posted November 28, 2023 A couple of things... So up here, you can pay cash in an Uber from today, I think it's been in in Brum a few weeks. So if you pay by cash, the driver has no obligation to have change, if the driver doesn't have change he enters the amount given and the change is credited to the users account in Uber credits Also there's someone out there claiming to have proved that Uber is profiling customers and drivers alike to maximise profits. As a customer, they'll have a profile on you based on previous pickup locations and prices paid to work out how much disposable income you have and how much you'll be prepared to pay for a journey. They've also done a similar thing to drivers and are now issuing more jobs to drivers that accept bookings for a lower rate based on previous rejections with upfront pricing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 (edited) My Uber driver missed the J6 exit adding 30 minutes to my journey! Train to London missed so may have to buy another ticket. Let’s see if Uber compensates me. edit: I let him give me cash difference. Edited November 29, 2023 by Vive_La_Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 29, 2023 Moderator Share Posted November 29, 2023 28 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: My Uber driver missed the J6 exit adding 30 minutes to my journey! Train to London missed so may have to buy another ticket. Let’s see if Uber compensates me. edit: I let him give me cash difference. Why would Uber compensate you? Your contract is to get you from A to B. Not to get you from A to B in a given time. Missing the junction shouldn’t have cost you anything with upfront pricing The Uber driver gave you cash? I can only imagine that is because he desperately wants your five stars and he’s personally taken that hit and probably earned zero money in the time he’s been on your booking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 5 minutes ago, bickster said: Why would Uber compensate you? Your contract is to get you from A to B. Not to get you from A to B in a given time. Missing the junction shouldn’t have cost you anything with upfront pricing The Uber driver gave you cash? I can only imagine that is because he desperately wants your five stars and he’s personally taken that hit and probably earned zero money in the time he’s been on your booking. My fare on the app changed from £17 to £43. I assume Uber would have compensated that if I requested it through the app ? I let him give me the cash difference instead as he was adamant and didn’t want me to give him bad rating. I guess they probably wouldn’t compensate me having to buy a new train ticket (if I’m forced to) but I use them a lot and am an Uber one member so I’ll give it a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 29, 2023 Moderator Share Posted November 29, 2023 1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said: My fare on the app changed from £17 to £43. I assume Uber would have compensated that if I requested it through the app ? I let him give me the cash difference instead as he was adamant and didn’t want me to give him bad rating. I guess they probably wouldn’t compensate me having to buy a new train ticket (if I’m forced to) but I use them a lot and am an Uber one member so I’ll give it a go. lol So now they know you'll pay £43 you will end up paying more over time. What Uber will do is adjust the fare back to the agreed £17 and deduct the difference from the driver. So he'll have paid you twice over. You’ve actually cost him about half his mornings work at this rate Uber One is just a way of taking more money from you and paying the drivers even less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, bickster said: lol So now they know you'll pay £43 you will end up paying more over time. What Uber will do is adjust the fare back to the agreed £17 and deduct the difference from the driver. So he'll have paid you twice over. You’ve actually cost him about half his mornings work at this rate Uber One is just a way of taking more money from you and paying the drivers even less I wasn’t going to tell Uber as he settled the difference with me in cash so no point costing him further. So I’m going to get shafted by increases anyway? Then on top of that I may have to shell out £90 for a new train ticket. (Still waiting on that one). Feel like I’m being done over either way for the driver missing the exit. Edited November 29, 2023 by Vive_La_Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 29, 2023 Moderator Share Posted November 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I wasn’t going to tell Uber as he settled the difference with me in cash so no point costing him further. So I’m going to get shafted by increases anyway? Then on top of that I may have to shell out £90 for a new train ticket. (Still waiting on that one). Feel like I’m being done over either way for the driver missing the exit. If your fare was £17 he’ll have been earning say £8-£9.The fare went up to £43, Uber will be giving him about £20.Presumably he’s given you £26 in cash. When you complain to the Uber Support Automaton they won’t understand your issue, They’ll refund the difference (£26) but in Uber credits and obviously revise the drivers money downwards too so he’ll have lost £18 plus his costs and time in doing your job, They absolutely will not refund your train fare. Thats the only way you have of demonstrating to the algo that your price point shouldn’t be raised. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted December 2, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted December 2, 2023 (edited) I've tried and tried to keep with my local taxi firm Crown Cars. But I'm now a full Uber convert. Especially after waiting for hours in Town and Moseley at nights. Last weekend I ordered an Uber in Chinatown and the **** er was actually parked up where I was stood, waiting for an order. I was confused why it was saying he'd arrived the second I hit the order button. Edited December 2, 2023 by sidcow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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