avfc1982am

I can't agree with the bold. Having good players only increases the potential of the team. If the manager doesn't have a clue how to set them up to play then it doesn't matter how good your players are. History is littered with teams that were apparently too good to go down, yet got relegated or never reached the levels they should of. The problem with Lambert is simple, his system doesn't suit the players, it's all square pegs in round holes. If he'd spent as much time finding a system to suit the players instead of the other way around he may have more support instead of still struggling to make things work. He might then just have to improve the players in a system that works, hence increasing the potential. Or as another example, maybe instead of fannying for the last 2 years over a RB, he could've kept Hutton instead and spent time strengthening other areas. I could go on and on... Personally if I believed he had found a system that really works well and we played attractive football even if we lost games due to the quality of players I would support him 100%. The truth is the complete opposite though, he can't get the best with what he's got. I see nothing on the pitch which leads me to believe we are just unlucky. You create your own luck in football. I was lucky enough to watch my lad play academy football for 5 years and can say without any doubt that I have seen kids of 12-17 years old play a better standard of football than Villa currently are. It's never about what you possess, it's about what you do with it. Lambert isn't doing very much with what he has in his possession.

Like your profile pic?! Sorry fella, couldn't resist.

It seems obvious to me that he is saying we expect to be comfortably mid table cus of our history and after the few years we had under Mon but the reality is that we spend like a championship team so realistically it's an achievement to be still in the league. We just need super timmy sherwood on board and everything will be fine ye? I would seriously take anyone now, just to freshen things up. Steve Claridge came up with the perfect answer the other night when asked about the turnaround in Blues fortunes. He said it's simply a manager that has come in, got them enjoying playing football and actually playing the players in their preferred positions'. Not really rocket science. Lambert continually plays Weimann and Gabby out of position along with others. I dont recall any fans saying we should be comfortably midtable, but we do expect improvement from one season to the next and a team thats show fight. So Lambert is meeting your expectations then of lowest scorers, lack of points etc..? He played zogbia plenty aswell as gabby and Weimann. Fact is they are shit but he was stuck with them as he had to sort the defence first. If we sign Gil and another quality attacker then it could transform the team. I'm more than happy to give it more time as it's only now after 2 and a half seasons that Lambert is starting to get his own team on the pitch. Remember he said it wud take 2 or 3 seasons to get things right here? It's almost as if he knows more about what the state of the club is than some of our vt experts but yeah let's just get anyone in, that's bound to work out. Did he also say that "Year one will be shit, year two will be shit and most of year three will be shit. Don't worry though because miraculously by the end of January 2015 I will have my own team in place and things will just click". Come on for heavens sake. The guy has been winging it for the last 12-18 months, at least. There has been no real change for the better on the pitch because the truth is we didn't concede a hefty amount of goals under Mcleish either so the defence imo is only doing now what they should've been doing 2 years ago under Lamebert. Plus we have 3 other defensive midfielders to help the 4 defenders do their job - totally negative. The so called 'style change' is total crap. All we do is pass it a little more around the back and in midfield, basically just hold the ball longer with still no end product. The players and formation is still exactly the same as it has been in the main under Lamebert. Still no width, players in the wrong position, to little movement with no urgency in the final third. With all the negative stats Villa have amassed under Lamebert to say the fans aren't realistic with our expectations is a little f****** cheeky if you ask me. No Villa fan I have spoken to expects european football atm, in fact expectations are the lowest for years. What we do expect is the the manager running the team that represent Aston Villa to have some nuts and except responsibility for the shit football at VP instead of trying to deflect criticism from himself. 11 goals this season in 21. McLeish the much slated manager previously employed by Aston Villa, his team hit 37 goals(still shit). Will we under Lamebert even reach 30 this year?? "Who will replace him", "Be careful what we wish for", "nobody else could do better with the restrictions". I'll take that gamble right now because having this idiot continue as manager is a far greater gamble.

This is the issue. When you're playing non-wingers as wingers, and don't carry any kind of threat from the middle, you're not hard to figure out. Dangerous wide players are needed as much for what they do when the ball isn't near them as what they do when it is Yup Take a player like Robben who often tries to move as close to the touchline as possible to find room for himself to recieve a pass stretch the defence and to have open space to utilize his pace and technique to take on the defenders. Gabby & Andi on the other hand seem to wan't to be as close the goal as possible and thus forcing Cissokho and Hutton to cover the whole flanks making us easy to defend against and forcing our midfielders to stay back and cover the space left behind on the rare occations the fullbacks move across the halfway line. It's fundamentally flawed Now were getting somewhere!!! This is and has been exactly what the issue is with the formation and players in it. The problem is we have no natural width and neither GA or AW stretch the fullbacks to create space in the middle for the 3 to move into, they're too busy drifting into the middle themselves and closing the spaces instead of expanding them. They are the wrong type of players for the system. Width and movement have been the biggest issues in the last 2 and a half years under lambert in my opinion.

I think now is definitely the right time to sack him. We have a good chance of getting no points from our next 3-5 games given current form and the opposition. I think we should use the next few weeks to find a new appointment. Once january is out the way if we are around the relegation zone it will be harder to convince someone to come in and sort out the mess, especially without the opportunity to at least bring in 1 or 2 loan signings or assistants.

In response to your post which certain points are fair comment, especially about the backing recieved. The managers you mentioned all lost their way in some form. The merry-go-round you talk about happens at most clubs up and down the leagues. And of the managers you mentioned which one went on to bigger and better things if indeed they were that great? Managers peak(or not) and then stagnate, fluctuate etc. Some clubs their methods work others they don't. Most of the time though there will come a point when things have gone far enough and it's time for a change or the manager moves on to a better job. All clubs go through this and we are no different what we should be doing as a club is have some clear idea as to the model we want to create, regardless of manager. As far as Villa and Lambert are concered It's time to part ways regardless of the future because if we continue with him as manager it may not be in the premier league. Nobody expects top 4 or 5 currently but what we do expect is to witness decent football befitting the stadium and fans who pay bloody good money to be entertained to a point.Lambert has had more than enough time to at least improve the quality of football yet here we still are. All this talk about changing the style of play is a myth in my opinion, the formation and players are excactly the same the only difference is we are holding the ball more yet still have no idea what to do with it. He needs to go end of imo and the fans need to force his hand to leave or increase the media pressure.

I think you are wrong to be honest. Many managers have gone to clubs who were on the brink of relegation etc, and transformed them. New ideas, fresh approach, positive thinking, can sometimes do wonders for a team in a rut.

I think there are many of us who believe Lambert has assembled a decent squad with the funds he has had. A team that is capable of much more positive football than on display. Therefore for me Randy Lerner isn't to blame for the lack of decent football at VP, Lambert is. Lerner isn't faultless though but currently we have no sway with him staying or going, we do however have a big say over Lambert continuing in his role. Fair enough I just struggle to see any good way out under Lerner and would be more worried about who he would get to replace Lambert than sticking with Lambert. Hopefully the good way out under Lerner will be selling us to an ambitious owner in the future. The time for worrying about who will replace Lambert is gone imo, and the reason for that is because what are we really replacing? Lets be fair here, we aren't excactly lighting up the division with attacking football and just unlucky. We are boring the shit out of anyone who bothers to watch us, we are fast becoming the easy touch for teams, and we are whether people like it or not, sinking under Lambert. We have nothing to lose anymore! And I honestly believe any fresh change of manager will improve us from our current position. With the 3 games we have coming up I would sacrifice the results and use the time to seek out alternative solutions if not done already. I would at this point rather go down fighting than watch on idle not reacting to the situation. I think any decent manager out there would look at the club and the playing staff and believe they could do better than the current shambes and increase their own stock in the process. Even if only for the short to medium term.

I think there are many of us who believe Lambert has assembled a decent squad with the funds he has had. A team that is capable of much more positive football than on display. Therefore for me Randy Lerner isn't to blame for the lack of decent football at VP, Lambert is. Lerner isn't faultless though but currently we have no sway with him staying or going, we do however have a big say over Lambert continuing in his role.

The one hope is that he is still yet to really get the 'McLeish treatment' from the home fans. If that starts happening, then it might even make his position untenable in the eyes of the board. I'd imagine that is not too far away. I said last night that the Liverpool game is the worst possible game Lambert could have at home. This isn't a geat Liverpool side by any stretch of the imagination but one that given our current run of poor form and clueless approach then it is a game we are very unlikely to get anything from. Being Liverpool and a 3pm Saturday kick off it will be a big crowd in VP and I fear come full time or even during the final embers of the game then Lambert will be getting dogs abuse and feel the full wrath of a Villa Park crowd just as McLeish did agaisnt Bolton. Whether that will be enough to put the final nail in his coffin is up for debate but for what it is worth then I believe it could well be. I hope your right Mark. I feel is very much make or break now. Unlike the last 2 years the lack of goals or creativity this season is a real cause for concern. IMO we will be lucky to get 30 goals after 38 games(19 in 17 games) which for any team is poor, no matter what the circumstances. I believe we have got to the stage now where the time for discussing Lamberts failings as our manager has passed. It's all about quick decisive action now in order to steady what is becoming a very rocky situation. Flirting with relegation year after year will lead to only one outcome imo.

I know what viable means and for what it's worth I feel it is the only practical solution to our situation. The only way it wouldn't be feasible for Lerner to sack him would be the cost of the contract nothing else.

I don't think anyone is suggesting he can, they are hoping he can because he is going to be the one attempting to do it. All people are doing is looking for viable solutions to our current situation. I think the most viable solution to improve our situation is to get rid of Lambert sharpish. I have no faith that given more money he will improve our fortunes on the pitch. If he can't find a system after 3 years to get the best out of what we've got I doubt with another 10-20mil things will improve. He's had most of his players available now for quite some time yet he is still failing dramatically to get them playing anything like decent football.

Looking at him today, he looked very sombre on the bench and the fact he didn't make a change until the 70min suggest's to me he is fast running out of ideas of what to do. IMO he is cleary out of his depth, something which was quite evident last season and should've been addressed by the owner. Also I'm not down with the arguement that he hasn't had enough money, because for me money doesn't buy organisation, discipline, formations, tactical knowledge etc. Lambert is failing in all these departments and has done for quite a while. IMO though, and I may get slaughtered for this from some quarters. WE the fans are partially to blame for this mess. We have been far too soft and patient with Lambert regardless of the financial situation and shouldv'e reacted far sooner to the bullshit on the pitch. If thing's do continue like this over the next couple of weeks without the fans turning on mass then unfortunately we deserve everything we get for allowing this to continue without opposing it. I personally don't agree with slaughtering people for no reason but I am a firm believer in standing up and saying enough is enough when what I care about is mistreated/mismanaged. This time is now and should happen against Liverpool next week regardless of the consequences in the game! Lambert out before it is too late!!

You clever lad!

@ dont_do_it_doug. Ok, maybe mirrored was the wrong term. But there are certainly simularities with the lack of ideas and movement in attack. More concerned with stopping the opposition rather than taking the game to them. I think it's very valid to suggest there are comparisons especially as you can't really argue that for the majority of Lambert's time here we haven't attacked very much either. @ DK82. I also said not in formation and players. I never suggested for one minute Mcleish and Lambert were comparable in transfers.

I didn't say he was. I think I suggested he wasn't(IMO) regardless of where he has played. Although it's not completely ridiculous for someone to suggest he is or that he has been used defensively for the majority of his time here. Up to now.

And Given!!! Yes. Yes it is. And do you remember the stick he got for that? Or has that conveniently slipped your mind? No it hasn't but I think the comparison between how Lambert plays and how McLeish played laughable to be honest especially when you try and claim Bacuna as a defensive player. Can't agree with the bold Trent. For the majority of the last 2.5 years under Lambert we have virtually mirrored Mcleish. Not in formation and players obviously but the style hasn't been that different. Both have adopted a style that has been more to stop the opposition rather than take the game to them. Under both the villa have been a defensive counter attacking team with very few ideas in attack. Without looking a the stats(forgive me) I would give a confident guess that since Bacuna joined us he has for the most part played as a fullback(epecially last season) due to the issues at rightback with Lowton?! Is Bacuna really a defensive player? I think we all know the real answer to that though regardless of where he has played, however you could claim he is or has been mainly used in this role.

He's settling quicker and better than some of our home grown players. Looking a proper player now. I would though like to see how he plays in a midfield four, in an attempt to reduce the numbers in the middle for certain games in order to give more width to the formation. We are far too congested in the middle at times and not exploiting the wider areas.

No offence, but kinda sick of the newbie brigade signed up to post Lambert out. We ain't being relegated, he's keeping his job until we get new owners so please. Give it a rest. As Amed has been a member since October 2006 how long do you have to be on VT before you consider someone to be a veteran? 87 posts? There's rakes of the faceless all posting only in here, Lambert out etc.. *yawn* New owners, then new manager. Until then give over on wanting the manager sacked while we sit 12th in the League. I wasn't aware that there was an annual quota of posts. Contribute when times are good, or just turn up to moan. Just saying who's posts I (and tbh probably lots of others) bother reading because you know a bit about the overall views of the poster. Faceless turning up to post Lambert out is *yawn* Maybe the person who has only posted 87 times has more of a life outside of VT than say..someone who has posted over 10,000 times?! I have also not posted as much as some, but still read and post when I have something I want to share or involve myself in. This is one of those occassions. I have read a few of your posts since being a member on VT and quite frankly the majority are a little *Yawn!

Me too. And i think that this is the main reason Keane took the job as assistant in the first place Me too. I think he would have seen the mess the club was in and at the very least thought there may be an opportunity at some point to get a decent club job. R Keane will not be happy being a number 2 to any manager for too long.

We may well be playing in a lower league this time next year with Lambert at the helm.

This is the thing. No real Villa fan wanted to see Lambert fail. Most had high hopes for him, the rest weren't overly happy but again, hoped he would bring back the good times with good attacking football. Most of us understand the restraints of the job however the fact that things haven't really improved for so long for most is why patience is worn or wearing thin- very thin indeed. I dont believe another 5-10 or even 30 games will change the way we play. I think we'll pick up the odd win, a few draws, continue to be inconsistant and be going over the same arguements further down the line. I think Lamberts time is up, it's time to break the mould we've been playing in for the last 2 and a half years and shake up as a club as a whole. Aston Villa is a club we should all be proud of, we should expect and demand more from our manager and players, not less.

Personally I think the more likely outcome if Lambert gets sacked would be Keane taking over as caretaker until the end of the season.

Repeating myself a bit but I don't think a lot of fans know what they want with regards to entertaining football. At a match, if we are playing with a bit of confidence, they're spreading it around nicely, building up and keeping possession, there inevitably comes a time where you have to turn and go backwards. At that exact point half of the stadium starts jeering about 'getting it forward' and '**** hell' because from a promising position we've been forced all the way back to the keeper. So when a defender has the option of either playing a slightly risky pass back into midfield while under pressure, or going 'safe' by just hoofing it up, they're always going to choose the latter when most fans applaud them for doing so. So fans say they want good quality possession, but actually want long ball kick and rush. Or least they reward the players for playing that way. With regards to your point. I understand what your trying to get at but the truth is the fans don't jeer because the ball goes backwards they jeer because we are predictable! We play sideways, sideways some more, pass it back to guzan.. and hoof! No one in all the time I've been going down VP has ever applauded Villa for continually hoofing the ball. That's just nonsense.

Do you honestly believe this to be the case? Most of the players now in our squad have played probably the at least 150+ top flight games each! I haven't looked at the stats so correct me if I'm wrong, however I do not for one minute think that the reason we are where we are is because our expectancy levels are too much for the players, or Lambert has to hold the hands of the players because they can't hack the pressure?! That's crazy, they aren't babies! Lamberts problem is either he isn't giving the players the right information. ie; Tactics, formation, line-up, positioning etc, or the players are not buying into it. Either way it is clear however he sets us up it's not working. Someone else mentioned that we were never going to get anything from the Man City or Chelsea games. I agree in part, not because we couldn't, but currently we don't play to win the majority of the time. We play to contain. This is the thing though, Stoke done City in their own backyard, even QPR nearly beat City. Why can't we expect similar belief from our club or indeed demand it! It's about time we did if you ask me, and maybe by demanding more we will get more, instead of this defeatest mentality which looms over the Villa. The acceptance of failure! I want a manager that can adapt his own ideas/philosophy to get the best out of the players at his disposal. Not a manager that continually does the same thing over and over expecting everyone to follow foolishly while his master plan keeps failing followed by excuse after excuse. It's getting ridiculous. Lambert has had more than enough time to have showed even slight improvements in our playing style yet here we are still.