tomav84

lets face it he could win the league and it wouldnt change some people's opinions of him i was hoping that mcleish actually getting things right for once would stop the moaning for 10 days at least...guess i was wrong!

Please read the first post in the thread

snatch

on the basis that champ standard isnt shit, i disagree...but do agree that he wont progres beyond that standard

Ciaran was getting torn apart at LB (not enough pace and poor at tracking his man), so the priority was solidifying that spot with Warnock, and get more stability back into the team. Then by sticking Ciaran in midfield we could get a bit more of a presence as the game seemed to be passing us by in that area for large parts of the first half. clark had a quality 2nd half...the holding role is definitely his best position. i think mcleish knew he needed to drop warnock and clark is the only player he could replace him with. though warnock actually played pretty well when he came on to be fair

i like many dream of seeing an all standing holte again...unfortunately i cant see it ever happening. even if, and its a big if, the government allow it i don't think villa would convert such a large area. would safe standing improve the atmosphere really? the whole lower north stands but is silent most games

this...clark is better in the holding role

anyone else see any scrapping before the game? saw a bit on the way to the ground...some pikey bristolian kid even asked me for my number to arrange a 'meet' after the game (told him to f off obviously)

Are you telling me only a small minority of fans are against McLeish? i reckon thats actually true. the majority would probably say he hasnt had a chance to build his own team yet and therefore too early to call for his head. heard many anti mcleish songs this season? seen any protests to have him sacked? nor me...

fairly spot on there...apart from taking ireland off and leaving warnock on not much mcleish could have done today. the players were just not up for it

aside from the obvious (fergie, guardiola, mourinho etc) i dont think a manager we could realistically attract would be doing any better with the squad we have IMO.

this...however as most didnt want him as manager to begin with there is no such thing as perspective. with MON he could do no wrong for some people, with mcleish he can do no right. dont rate him as manager but credit where credit's due was a good point tonight which we didnt play for...we had more possesion and chances

the xmas day hangover is a drawback but xmas eve is the best night out of the year IMO...miles better than new years

mullets...missed the meeting where it was decided they were fasionable again

Agreed. Fans knew the team was giving 100% and backed the team. As you say, shame about the result, but if we play like that all season we should be ok. 100% agree...was great atmosphere tonight and deserved all 3 points. wasnt too be but thats football. felt 20 times better walking away from the ground than i did on sunday knowing that we played some great footy tonight and will be fine this season if we continue playing like that

ah in typical villatalk style bent misses glaring chances and its mcleish's fault...

based on how long i had to wait to get through on the phone this morning i reckon these are gonna go quick

anyone been there before and know where to drink?

i agree he made a mistake by appointing him due to the slap in the face to fans, the underestimation of the rivalry, and the fact that there was better out there. im not denying the investment that he has made, but once he suddenly tightened the purse strings to the extent that he has done, alarm bells rang for me. im just saying personally im not calling for mcleish's head YET...ask me again in january once we have played all the top teams and ability has truely been put to the test

That's very odd. Can't understand how you can possibly be no to Randy but only unsure about McLeish? because i question the lack of investment from lerner considering turnover from player sales etc. lerner's intentions are quite obvous as far as im concerned. i dont believe any manager deserves the sack after only 14 games in charge. hence im unsure.

It is partly where he's come from, but it's also his managerial reputation in general & it's hard to separate the two. I think if it was McGrath he would not be getting the same venom, but that is an extreme contrast because McGrath is a player beloved to the fans here, so of course they would be more generous to him. A better question would be if it was a different manager with no links to either Villa or Birmingham. I think it is very possible for a manager with no previous history with the club to quickly become heavily disliked by a fanbase. How about a hypothetical for you: If McLeish had done everything exactly the same this season & all previous seasons, with the sole difference was that instead of it being Birmingham who he managed and relegated twice, it was with a similar sized club with no particular link to Villa (say, Portsmouth) - do you think he would be getting the same venom? I think it would be slightly less, but it wouldn't take long to get to the same point he's at now. He would still have the relegation & bad football reputation, the appointment would still have been met with much skepticism, albeit probably less hatred at the start - but the football would quickly speak for itself. yep i can agree with that, eventually with this style of footy us fans would become unhappy and be looking for a change in management. but i just feel that calling for mcleish to be sacked was always going to happen even if we improved on last season. after a decent (not great, but decent) start to the season considering our squad, people were calling for his head when we went out of league cup to bolton. it was as if people were just waiting for our first defeat so that they could finally say what they wanted to since his appointment. i might be wrong, thats just how i percieved it.

i have voted unsure to mcleish and no to lerner...you cannot lay all the blame for our prediciment on the manager (yes you can send some blame his way) we received around 20m for milner which we spent on bent (fair enough). we received 40m for young and downing and spent it on n'zog hutton and given - 15m roughly? where has the remaining 25m gone? this is without mentioning the annual prem league tv cash plus ST sales, for which they proudly told us were around the 20k mark (£4m for season tickets sound about right?) the guy is cutting his losses and getting ready for a sale...if we get relegated in the process then so be it as far as he's concerned. him and his little sidekick faulkner openly admit they know squat about footy so they bring in 'advisors'. these advisors say prem league experience is a must...despite the fact that the most succesful managers the league has known had no experience of managing in england before they came over (mourinho, ferguson, wenger)

Nope, I said before Lerner will be stubborn and stick with it to prove a point, he see's the fans as the ones who got GH our and stopped the possible appointment of McLaren, he'll want to make sure he doesn't let the fans win again. We are of course, simple men of the terracex. Which means we can only try but force him out. well if attendances being down around 5000 this season hasnt done it then nothing will. just have to say tough shit, we're stuck with him, and if lerner were to sack him then he would prob have bruce lined up as a replacement anyway...

McLeish has previous experience he isn't a novice or learning his trade. His Birmingham side was perhaps the most boring team ever in the Premiership side. His "premiership experience" is of relegations. Completely negative no plan B. You do realise Blues only lost ONE more game than we did last season . Wolves lost FIVE more games than they did but Blues went down. He doesnt know how to win games. We are seeing the same turd football again at Villa. It is carbon copy. 3 wins so far this season? That is unacceptable. Ask any Bluenose fan what the actual football was like under him. They will tell you . He has no record with developing youth , his Premiership experience is rubbish and his sides play god awful antifootball. Have you not been watching us this season? Playing Heskey and Hutton in midfield? Fielding 6 defenders ? Reluctance to use subs ? Isolation of Bent? Winning 3 games?? He is shite. Possibly the worse manager in Premiership and certainly the most negative. yep thanks been to most games including the dire display at spurs...im not defending him, nor our style of play, im just indicating the verocity of the hate towards him would not be as much had we had a villa legend as opposed to our rivals' former manager (ok, mcgrath bad example...platt/dean saunders might have been a better example) look at the protests before his appointment, IMO mclaren would have been a poorer choice but there were no protests outside VP when we thought he was to be our next manager...

said it before and ill say it again now...the root of most people's hate is cause of where he has come from. let give you a for instance: we make the same transfers as we have done, played the same line ups in games, same style of play, and same results...but paul mcgrath is our manager. who on here can HONESTLY say that they would be calling for his head with the same venom that you are calling for mcleish's?