AVFC-Prideofbrum

I think it's just one of those things, I guess people will say it's a mental thing but I mean twice he's just inches away from a goal. The one Cech tipped onto the post was perfectly bottom corner. I can see maybe a point towards the penalty being missed through to pressure, him wanting to well simply 'make sure' by putting it right top bin rather than maybe the more relaxed way he usually takes them but the two chances he had first half, remember, it's barely seconds by the time he see's the opportunity for goal and hits it. I don't see how not scoring vs chelsea before would have entered his mind at any point within those chances. He wasn't at his best from a goalscoring point of view (which inevitably matters most) but having watched game back, he was still the one creating and upping the tempo but there lied Barca's problem, he was one of very few who was trying to do anything but pass the ball sideways across the box without any pace or purpose. He'll be kicking himself for missing so many great chances, an inch here or there and he's launching Barca into the final with another leading display, or what happened, he's lost his form and cost Barcelona a place in the final, fine margains ay! Anyway, he should be given a week off, I think he's played every minute since about September and has carried this team this season. Leave him out next game, 30 from bench after that, then start last couple games before the Copa Del ray final. Although I'm sure Messi will want to just play at the weekend.

I think it's stupid, no one should have to miss a final unless they have been sent off or something stupid like 5 yellows since last 16.

Yes, I reckon there are a few that read but not post, especially younger given they are more likely to be fully aware of what's out there on the internet. Likes of Dunne/Collins, No chance but those that tweet plenty from the Villa players...if they are on the net for so long, then I imagine they get curious and look. About a week ago I wanted to have a look at a Stoke forum for general viewing so I tweeted "anyone know the name of the main Stoke forum".....as well it isn't a normal (StokeTalk) and within a minute, I got a reply from a mate who's at Stoke and out on loan at league 1 (answer being outcake)....given how aware he was and that wasn't even an obvious name then I imagine there must be a few of our players that are similar.

showed too many signs of trying to attack. Disgrace. Warnock will put that mentality right, let's keep it tight. Can't wait to see the quick, interchanging play between Warnock and Heskey through the middle, should be an absolute joy to behold.

Oh and to anyone reading, I had bit to drink before that so I'm sure there are plety mistakes, contradictions but am sure you get the jist. I hope so villarocker! I think maybe it's just time to man up a little and just ride through this bad period. I think the fact it seems almost guaranteed he's staying for at least another season has got to me but hey, hopefully I'll be supporting Villa for the next 70 years, I guess I can manage a couple more shit seasons, older fans have been through worse I guess?

Get one, we could go together. That'd be so totally cool.

I remember a time just a couple years ago, in fact just 12 months ago, Aston Villa's result and performance would be my mood changer for the week, if we got a good result, I'd be happy until the following weekend, if we didn't, I couldn't want until the weekend after to hopefully see Villa put it right. As many seen by my posts and know, I could talk about anything Villa, I love the club, I always will but this season, yeah it started the same, I had thoughts and opinions, Villa was vital, you know during october, we was pushing towards top 8, although maybe it wasn't that likely, there was hope, maybe McLeish could do something, I didn't believe it but I thought get behind him, you never know, a couple wins and we are in the mix. Slowly but surely as the season has gone on, the results, football, comments, attitude, mentality, desire and my care has nearly vanished. He has made me dislike what I love most. People won't understand, I completely get that, I think I questioned the people who said what I'm saying now while we was under Houllier because at the time I didn't understand but how can I be happy, how can I celebrate short term success (i.e a win tomorrow) when I know that win is going to just lead to another year of absolutely horrific football, horrible feelings and a shit season where we finish absolute maximum about 11th. I have no hope. I don't see any future. every time I think about us as a club, I get angry and I'm going to say it, do you know what, I envy Blues supporters season. I have good friends on twitter, regularly tweeting how happy they are with the manager, with the players, the fact they are winning more games than they are losing, they are doing well and although we'll always be a far bigger and greater club than them, I think I'd rather take that feeling, I want to be interested again, I want to just look at our future and see something positive. Anyway I didn't want to post the above bit straight away as it was wrote out of emotion but that does explain exactly how I feel as a whole so don't want to not post it. Having giving myself a bit more time (about an hour anyway!) to think about things, I really hope we stay up, not really from my own view but for the stability of the club, also relegation doesn't exactly guarantee his sacking/resignation! the fact more loyal fans than I don't deserve relegation and who knows, the impossible may just happen and we have a good season next year. Hopefully something in my mind just changes but I just want to love and care for AVFC again. I don't think I can while he is around. :cry: :cry:

I'll be honest, I'm going to watch Barca vs Chelsea with the local Spaniards and me mates at Uni. Good atmosphere, good football, few drinks, good night. Will be checking the score minute by minute via twitter (as probably half of you will be updating your feed with score etc..!) can't go to the game anyway and can't be bothered to watch the shittest football known to man on some shitty stream over a big game in the CL and some may not see it as a big game but I do follow Barca and I also i'm a big fan of football generally so enjoy big games. Oh and also it's predictability, I think other game will be really interesting game and could go either way in terms of qualification so it's interesting. I'm honestly sure about 95% we won't lose the game, and i'm sure 80% sure we'll draw the game 0-0 or 1-1. Oh if the game was basically like us 18th vs Bolton 17th, I'd definitely watch Villa but I'm pretty sure we won't lose and we'll stay up based on what i've seen so far so not hugely worried about tomorrow night. Oh and sorry I'm just being a shit fan (serious, not sarcastic) but seeing McLeish celebrate a victory for us and the thought of the result keeping him in the job actually boils my blood. I;m really happy for some of our players like Weimann, Albrighton etc..but just the thought of him going into next season as our manager is killing me. I hate him. I reckon I may be disliked by many on this site but drawing tomorrow/today and being just about safe for me will be better than beating bolton and being comfortably safe (in fact, i'd rather be in league one with a manager i love and being super interested than what i see now, it's actually horrible). maybe that's why i want to watch barca vs chelsea, i'm actually hoping for a winner. sorry.

Although valid point, it's also a point towards Messi that he's not a player you look down at if he doesn't score. He set up 3 goals in those games (aswell as big part in 3rd goal in league game at bernabou) and well was the main part in the goal for Barca at the weekend (committing 3 defenders) as well as well pass to Xavi which should have been finished. Fact is, Messi doesn't need to score goals to have a major impact on the game, the goals are just a part of his game which in my own opinion separates him from Ronaldo. Not to say if he scored 20, he'd be better because you can't look past what Ronaldo has done but I just think Messi doesn't rely on goals to be the best, it's not a goalscoring contest that is the difference between them. I also believe that real madrid go out to stop messi more than barca stop ronaldo just because i think teams and real know if they can surround messi and try to stop him dictating the attacking play, they have a great chance of unsettling barca, where as barca play all to their own strengths that it's difficult to concentrate on single players when defending on counter attacks. although saturday, his touch just was completely off, he simply had an average game for his standards. the other games though, he's been fine and a key player in the wins.

:yawn: thanks for the response. annoyingly i play saturdays, don't get to see us half the time and with Villa being ridic shit under McLeish, it's hard to watch. only team i can see on weekly basis is barca and i have nowhere else to just write an opinion. previous seasons with villa i had opinions but this year, it's just hard to talk about. although the post may not interest you or even anyone on the forum quite frankly, what was the point in your response? just seems pathetic. it's just an opinion within the spanish la liga. no need to respond for it. :|

Anyway, my honest opinion. Real set up not to differently to 5-0 loss last year, I honestly believe R.Madrid were there for the taking. For starters, the 3-4-3 played right into the hands of Real Madrid. Ronaldo hasn't been at his best when he's played against the likes of Alves, largely ineffective in fact, Ronaldo didn't really have to move back all game as Puyol at RB/CB of the three was never going to support forward which meant Ronaldo could break and get in 1 on 1 situations vs Puyol, only one winner. Ronaldo is a great player, 2nd best in the world IMO but he must have been laughing with how easy the game was made for him. Real Madrid biggest threat counter-attacking out wide and Barca simply played into a system that suited them, far too many numbers down the middle of the pitch without any sort of penetration. I watched the 5-0 game back, the key to that game is how they stretched Barca as a team and how they worked the most important areas, (the madrid back line) tonight, defending Barca is easy. Messi always drop deep, he's the best but he's containable if he has to do it all. Last year, he drops deep but both Pedro and Villa are already starting on the CB's and FB's shoulders, it means they can't step up and move up into Messi, leaving him more space. Barca's midfield runs are easier to track if they haven't already got players they are looking at. for example, Busquets, Thiago, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi were all basically at times across the same lines with Tello and Alves flanks. The Real Madrid CB's had nothing to mark, the Real FB's didn't really have to tuck in a great deal becuse there was no players looking to play on the shoulder which meant Tello/Alves were denied space and firstly, Tello isn't good enough and secondly Alves is far better from deep, not playing high and beating men in tight spaces. Whenver there was runners, even good late runs, although I don't think the passes were of the best quality from Barca, Real Madrid always could react quick enough to stop the threat. Last year for much of the game, Pedro and Villa were constantly playing inside the full back, the full backs were getting dragged inside, the CB's were constantly aware and it also left a lot of space for both Alves and Abidal who in that game shared the duties of going forward, while the other tucked around for the counter attack, Real that game had to tuck in to secure themselves but there was always an out ball out on the flanks because Madrid's wingers, especially Ronaldo didn't track back for parts (tactics not being critical) and the times he did track back, well they've been successful in pushing him back defending his own box not ready for the counter. Along with that, quite simply the touch, passing, finishing and ideas weren't at that clinical level which doesn't help but quite frankly I just don't understand why he don't play a normal back 4 (adriano, alves and then pick two out of masch/puyol/pique) and then busquets, iniesta, xavi middle with sanchez/pedro either flank and Messi dropping deep. People argue that Messi is the product of a brilliant Barca system and passing game which without doubt helps in many occasions but you could argue last night that was the downfall. As soon as Sanchez come on, the game changed a little, his runs were far more central, Messi was able to run with the ball in good areas without facing a line of defenders, the movement of likes of Sanchez allowed Messi the space to drive into areas, (which happened for the goal as Pepe got slightly dragged by Sanchez movement) where was the options he had? we saw the Xavi chance and 1000x times this season, he can find the right pass. in fact, the goal and their best other chance (xaxi) both game from his plays so although he's not at his best, he's still chief creator which is also their biggest problem. 63 goals, 26 assists this season. i dare to even look at the stats of those closest, i'd have a guess at around fabregas with 16-17 goals and similar assists to find closest near him and he hasn't even scored in about 3 months! way over reliant on Messi for both scoring and creating especially recently (scored in 14 in 15 before last two games). Villa and Pedro scored nearly 50 between them last year, they haven't had that this year. at times midfielders got beyond him but given the fact they had no one else to mark it was easy to spot runs and watch dangers, if they have Sanchez like Villa did, playing inside full backs making clever runs suddenly they have to think. It didn't matter if Messi went past anyone tonight because when he did, nothing was in front of him apart Real Madrid shirts apart from Alves/Tello who were stationed very wide which meant little penetration. both full backs and wide forward would have give Real Madrid a real dilemna tonight i think and given the fact they didn't press at all high up the pitch, I really believe they were there for the taking but the Barca game played into their hands. basically i thought Barca played a system which had zero penetration and left them self exposed. I think the three at the back is good (if teams drop deep only) if they play Fabregas and Sanchez and another wide forward like Cuenca/Pedro/Tello whatever. so it's basically like a 3-3-4 with players constantly driving into spaces beyond the defence and pushing them back OR if the other team tries to press really high, then it's dangerous but a similar tactic today could work because in a game where pressure is high, more control in the midfield and naturally because R.M presses higher, it gives Messi more space in dangerous areas so they don't need as many runners off him but today it was too much like; Tello-----X-------X---------X---------X---Alves -----------X--------X-------------- ---Iniesta------X------Messi------------------------- ----X------Thiago, Xavi------------------X- -------------Busq---X------------------------ Adriano------Masch----------Puyol----------- which quite frankly meant there was **** all danger to deal with and everytime they got the ball, they could break really well with great players. anyway, i'm just annoyed and back from a night out so sorry if not much makes great sense but in my own mind I know what i'm thinking (could do with being good with graphic shit to make my point) Anyway real deserve title. Consistent, similar team all year, not over reliance on a single player but quality when it matters, when real needed Ronaldo, he stepped up, when Ronaldo needed Real, others scored the goals. when Barca needed Messi, he scored, when Messi needed Barca...... well yeah. too much rotation (i mean, Tello today, really?), slightly unlucky with injuries as well but not really an excuse given talent. Just hope they bounce back in Champions League and go again next year, they have the potential. edit; also i don't think the system suits Xavi a great deal, it cuts off a lot of passing lanes forcing him simple, also a reason i think he's been taken off a lot more recently, if xavi hasn't got options available to him, he doesn't have THAT much to offer. he was sacraficed vs levante and also tonight but quite frankly if there is not much forward of him or the players forward (alves/tello vs real madrid) there isn't real that much available to him. teams are letting him have the ball at the moment, he might be brilliant but without real options, he's ineffective at what you play him for.

I know, crazy isn't it! how can people dare to believe such things. :shock:

Deserved, Pep got it all wrong. Well done Real!

Yep, Fabregas has to go for the second leg, Iniesta's ability with the ball and going past players in the middle can open up spaces and take players out the game. I hope to see Pedro on the wing next game and Iniesta restored to the middle.

Chelsea were brilliant but Barcelona still opened them up on several occasions and should have scored a couple. A bigger pitch, wider, more one on one battles, more gaps for passes to find it's target, especially those little clever one's to break lines. It's going to be hard to do a repeat job, they will need plenty of luck and definitely an away goal.

both Mascherano and Puyol are on yellows and going with the fact Drogba is a big lad, I'm surprised Pique isn't starting but I reckon at some point they will go 3 at the back and Puyol is better in full back areas than Pique/Mascherano and quite frankly Mascherano has been far better than Pique in that main CB spot this season so deserves the nod. Apart that, nothing to debate really, maybe Pedro/Cuenca in for Fabregas but that's about it. I think it'll be 1-2 Barcelona.

The little man is having a little man himself. congratulations Leo! Edit; oh maybe not. Nothing official but apparently so.

Anyone can have a decent managerial win percentage if they've managed Rangers/Celtic for a number of years. Difference with being O'Neill, he manages to still keep a respectful win percentage when he manages a middle sized club in England rather than bring it down to about 20%

Not many can.

McLeish was unlucky here, had the penalty not been given and then the other 3 not gone in and we scored, we honestly could have won this 1-0.

The one who can't pass or cross a ball? He's the worst crosser of the ball in the league for his position. His distribution is awful, he's clumsy, dives in and is reckless defensively. The sort of attributes that make him so popular with McLeish.

He's also failed to bring the best out of any player all season, It's actually really mind **** when you ask yourself 'Who is our player of the season?' ... honestly, who?

it might be but for me if put them in any team in world Ronaldo would do more damage. If they played for Stoke and WBA respectively id say Ronaldo would do more damage than MEssi I honestly couldn't say, there are so many factors to be taken into consideration. It's impossible, we only see him week in week out working with Barcelona, his whole style of play is based around how Barcelona set up but that then also doesn't mean he couldn't adapt. What makes Ronaldo a player that you know for definite would do more than Messi at Stoke/WBA for example? (well to be fair, I'll give you Stoke!) but for example West Brom. What, because he's scored in the Premiership before? Of course he has, he's a phenomenal goal getter and played for the best team in England and at the time, the world in 2007/08, supplied by Tevez, Rooney, Giggs, Scholes etc.. that's not down playing his achievements but of course someone like Ronaldo is going to score a tremendous amount of goals in a team like that, in his last two seasons in English football he scored 49 league goals in 67 games (Compared to 81 in 67 at Real last two seasons). Down a fair bit so he like Messi is the beneficiary of a team with such dominance. It's easy to just say 'Messi needs more of the ball than Ronaldo' but how do we know that's true? Messi just plays in a team that has lots of the ball so he doesn't have to adapt. (by the way, both Messi/Ronaldo have fairly similar international records so you can't point to that as some sort of evidence for Ronaldo ...) Key point being he's never had to adapt to a team that'd have less of the ball in plenty of games and be backs to the walls rather than constantly playing in the opposition half and to some extent, nor really has Ronaldo. You could even argue with a team that has less of the ball, they can provide more chances on the break. Messi has 10 individual goals to Ronaldo's 1 this season according to stats (I think that goes down to dribbles I.e two goals vs Malaga, Athletico Madrid at home goals...etc..) but point being, we all talk about Messi needing the ball more but what about on the break, I know if an attack is 3 on 3 and I had a player dribbling with the ball from the half way line, I'd want it to be Messi over Ronaldo. Meanwhile of course, a team that can lack creativity and just swing a few crosses in, for those moments you'd want someone like Ronaldo in the box over Messi for his excellent ability in the air. I'm not choosing either play but it's always something that does come up that Ronaldo would be better in a weaker team but quite frankly we will never know and I don't think it's fair to say with ease which one you'd pick based on reasoning which will be used by most I imagine that I think I've highlighted. Simply we'll never know.

If only! Anybody that dares to have a protest gets slated by some people on here as being 'Small Time' and anybody that dares suggest anti McLeish chants at the game gets accused of 'Upsetting the Players' and not being a 'Real Fan'. People protested before he even got the job and what good did it do? You think Lerner cares that you are standing outside the ground in -5c weather? If he gave a shit about our feelings the manager would be sacked long ago. Possibly but do you not see McLeish's comment not too long ago about the 'silent majority' maybe they honestly believe that apart from a minor section, most fans back it. If thousands protest...or we start getting attendances way below 30,000 then at least it does something. we need to do try something.

He's an extra-ordinary talent.