TomC

A strange match in some ways. We had a poor first 20 minutes. We were hoofing long balls off target. Meanwhile, their runs seemed to confuse our back line as our defenders often were ball watching and left men unmarked far too often. Fortunately, Man U was as out of sorts as we were. And fortunately, things turned after that. Dougie was my man of the match…great corner for the goal, some nice passes, influenced the game in so many ways. He’s back to his best this year. I just hope he doesn’t tire in February. Cash was up to his recent standards, i.e. excellent. McGinn’s pass to Cash to set up Targett was outstanding, and he should have had a clear break in the second half if he hadn't been fouled. Good as usual. Emi M. made some good saves. Other than that, I don’t know that anybody stood out for doing anything brilliant. It was just very workmanlike, in a very good way. Everyone pressed and disrupted. Hate to say anything negative after that, but… Watkins is out of sorts. His pressing was excellent and he won’t be dropped because it’s a vital part of the way we play, but I don’t think he’s fully fit. Ramsey didn’t do anything wrong but was mostly quiet. On his first chance to make a major contribution on the pass from Buendia, he tweaked a muscle. I keep saying it again and again…don’t burn the young players out. To play all those minutes at that level and pace is going to require an adjustment for a 20 year old. Give him a rest before he gets hurt. On the goal, you could tell by the way Cavani was jostling Hause before the corner that he was worried about the size disadvantage. Hause took full advantage for the goal so he gets some credit. That said, he ball-watches too much in defense. Despite his other defensive skills, he’s still down the pecking order in my book because of this. Usually, at least one player on the other side impresses me, but Man U looked very mediocre. If they keep playing like that, they will not be competing for the title. Ronaldo was starved for service, Greenwood couldn’t shoot, Fernandes was poor, Maguire was mediocre, Shaw couldn’t handle Cash…it goes on. (Of course, I'd like to think our performance has something to do with that!) Pogba was the only one who was at all dangerous and would be my MOTM for them, but the fact that he couldn’t finish pretty much sums up their day. And the refereeing? I usually don’t pick on referees because I used to be one. But that was awful.

Agreed. He's been caught ball watching several times today. We're lucky they haven't punished us for it.

Has anyone heard anything more about Targett? Last I read, he's doubtful tomorrow. Assuming he doesn't play, I think Deano will play 4-3-3: Martinez Cash-Konsa-Mings-Young Dougie-Ramsey-McGinn Buendia-Ings-Watkins Ideally, I'd rather go 4-2-3-1: Martinez Cash-Konsa-Mings-Young Dougie-McGinn Traore-Buendia-Watkins Ings I think it matches up well against Man U's 4-2-3-1 and I think Ramsey needs a break (don't burn out the young player). But I don't think that's what Deano will do.

I like the general idea...I think it would work as an asymmetrical 4-3-3 with Cash having license to go forward, making it more of a 3-4-3 in attack. Ings seems to operate more on the right so I'd swap him and Watkins. Apologies to Ramsey, who has been very good, but I would probably start Dougie ahead of him if we played this way.

I agree with Jono62...Nakamba wouldn't be in my first five in most circumstances, but you have to wonder if Deano had this summer's England-Italy match in mind, when everyone criticized Southgate for letting youngsters (Saka, age 19 and Sancho, age 21) take penalties, who then missed...

Agreed 100%! It is not intended to be a defensive setup. It's intended to maximize attack and defense.

"When journalists ask me how Barcelona plays, I give them a 3-1-2-2-1-1 formation, so that they have an approximate idea. But that's just for the journalists." --Johann Cruyff "What formation a team is playing, anyway, is often in the eye of the beholder. How deep does the second striker have to be for 4-4-2 to become 4-4-1-1? How advanced do the wide players have to be for that to become 4-2-3-1?" --Jonathan Wilson The quotes say it all. Using numbers is convenient here because we're dealing with text, or when you're talking. If we could, we'd be better off drawing diagrams with arrows showing where each player moves, which could show differences in defense and attack and asymmetries between what players on the left or right might be asked to do. If you're using just numbers, the argument for priortising defense is that the shape means more: the defense tries to funnel the other team into predictable positions where they can be dealt with. Attack is less structured: players frequently drift either because they spot an opportunity or because they want to confuse the defense. And to some extent, we do prioritse defense: As much as Cash and Targett (or Young) get forward when we play 4-3-3, you could call it a 2-5-3 in attack, but nobody does that. In the end, whether you tell me 3-5-2 or 5-3-2, I'm expecting the same system.

There's really no difference between 3-5-2 and 5-3-2. The whole point of the system is that the wide players can defend or join midfield as necessary. That's why they're called wing backs. They're wingers and backs.

Deano is going to push Targett/Young and Cash forward no matter the formation. He's done it in a 4-2-3-1 and a 4-3-3. The 3-5-2 just gives them more freedom. As I've said before, looking at who we bought, I don't think that he intends to play 3-5-2 as his first choice against most teams. He will not necessarily play 3-5-2 against all the Big Four sides either. They all play differently. Against Man U...Pogba can hurt you from deep. Fernandes can hurt you from a more advanced position. Ronaldo still has it and can hurt you from anywhere. But they don't have much steel in midfield. I think you go either 3-5-2 or 4-2-3-1 because they both essentially involve 5 midfielders. Don't give those three space to play. Crowd the midfield. Starve Ronaldo and Fernandes for service. Make them defend and try to pin them back. The danger in this match is Pogba, because even if you press hard and pin them back, he can open you up with the long pass. Defending against the long pass means not pushing your backs too far forward. That means more distance between your forward players and your backs. That means 4-2-3-1, with more depth (at the expensive of width, which their 4-2-3-1 won't have, either.) But hey, what do I know. I've been wrong every match since the first one.

I shouldn't overlook the League Cup match, but looking ahead to the next PL match against Man U, will we play 3-5-2 for that one? Tuanzebe won't be eligible to play against his parent club as a loan player. You'd have to move Mings to the centre, put Targett or Young as the left-centre back, and the other one as the left wing back. [Edit:] Or you could put Bailey as left wing-back...but then do you want Targett or Young at left-centre given that Ronaldo likes to operate on their right/our left? Young faced him last year in Serie A... Man U has played 4-2-3-1 all season so I don't think you necessarily need all the width of a 3-5-2. On the other hand, maybe that's how you overrun their defensive weaknesses in midfield. If you play 4 at the back, do you go 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1? It's hard to break up the Dougie-McGinn-Rambo midfield, but McGinn may not be healthy. Choices, choices...

Depending on how bad it is, he easily could be out next week for that.

Deano said that they planned to buy Buendia before they knew that Grealish was going. Only Ings and Bailey came from the Grealish money. NWSE have £40m burning a hole in their pocket. Can't wait to see what they do with it next year.

Ramsey and Nakamba have both improved and that has not helped him. But if McGinn is out for the next game, he could get a chance in the next couple matches. It's a long season...don't give up on him yet. We'll need him at some point.

LOL sounds like a certain now-departed player...

He may have been our best player over the first 4 matches, but I thought he was quiet for the first half today before having a better second half. I would rest him for a match. Younger players often haven't learned to pace themselves over the course of the season. We've got the squad to rotate. Do it before he burns himself out.

Agreed. Defending the counter was our one significant weakness today. I think that's partially because we pushed so many players forward so often.

Did we really change? The wing backs spent more time forward today so it looked more like a 3-5-2 than a 5-3-2. I think Bailey stepped right into Targett's role. Targett just wasn't effective going forward.

Bailey: Wow. Who needs Grealish? Should have gotten credit for the second goal despite the Everton touch. Most of the time two goals would be Man of the Match, but that goes to… Cash: My MOM for second week in a row. I would have voted that way even before he scored. Dangerous all day going forward, defended well again. Has taken a real step forward this year. Great pass for the third. [Edit: My mistake. Just saw the replay. It was Ings who set up the third. Cash is still my MOM, but it's a closer call.] Mings: Back to his best today. A colossus in the air. Ramsey: Quiet first half, better in the second. Don’t burn out young players: I’d give him a rest next week. Targett: His defending is back. Unfortunately, his crosses kept getting blocked or going astray. Still not back to his best. I would start Young ahead of him, or Bailey if we’re playing 3-5-2. Nakamba: He’s never going to be spectacular, but he has improved since last year and I’m no longer nervous when he comes on. Ings: Did so many little things right today. He’s getting in dangerous positions and the goals will come. If Ramsey had laid off a pass instead of going for goal in the middle of the second half, he would have had one. Also made a couple good interventions when tracking back. Crucial pass in the buildup to Cash’s goal. [Edit: And Bailey's.] I know that some people around here are questioning him. Not I. Watkins: Quiet today. Best of the opposition: I was really impressed with Iwobi and Gray.

Today's Guardian has an article noting all the choices that Deano has now...pretty much the same conversation we've had here. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/sep/17/no-excuses-for-aston-villa-as-they-aim-to-get-post-grealish-era-truly-started The problem with deciding for this match is that Everton has started three different formations in four matches...4-4-2, 3-4-3, 4-2-3-1. You can't be sure what you're matching up against. Of course, they will have a hard time predicting what we're going to do, too. Does anyone know the rules about submitting the starting XI? Does the away team go first, or do both sides submit at the same time? Their attack does appear to be a little stronger on their left side than the right. Cash was excellent last game and Konsa was better than Mings, so I don't think that this will require any tactical adjustment. Given that I can't predict the other side, I think I'd go with 4-4-2 so I can try fitting all of Ings, Watkins, Buendia and Bailey in and see how it goes. We haven't started a 4-4-2 yet and that would keep Everton off their guard. Bailey and Buendia both seem responsible enough defensively to help with duties in midfield. Watkins - Ings Bailey - McGinn- Dougie - Buendia Young - Mings - Konsa - Cash Martinez

That's sort of what we did in the second half against Newcastle, except in reverse. We started 4-3-3 but with a lead, Buendia tucked in on our right when we were defending. Ghaza did it on the left sometimes too, making it like a 4-5-1 in defense. So, given that Deano is adapting to the opposition, who knows anything about Everton? I'm not making any predictions about a formation until I know something about them.

Everyone said the same thing about Watkins after February last year.

He isn't average and he isn't top either. There's plenty of room between those descriptions. He's above average. We've only had two truly world-class players in recent times: Grealish and (maybe) Martinez (who also makes the occasional bad error). Above average describes much of the rest of the team. If we can sign two centre backs like Dias, Thiago Silva (brilliant today), Chiellini, Van Dijk, Stones, Maguire, then great, let's have Konsa and Mings sit on the bench as cover. Until then, they're good enough for us to take the next step forward. Then hopefully we'll be in a position to start attracting a few truly world class players.

I think that I might have to give up on trying to predict how he's going to play on any given day. He's become too unpredictable. So far this year we've started 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3 (sort of 4-1-2-3), and 3-5-2, and have also used 4-1-4-1 and 4-4-2. He has the players to be flexible and he is being flexible. This is good.

He received the ball in dangerous positions several times. Every time, there was a Chelsea defender instantly stuck to him. He got marked out of the game. He may not be good enough to unlock a defense like that on his own, but he will score plenty of goals for us this year.

"They weren't at their best today but they won without being at their best because they've got some people who've got that stardust." Spot on.