andyjsg

Ahh another politics thread.....

Mostly they didn't actually earn it - they were paid it, but mostly didn't merit it. They effectively, many of them, made themselves seriously wealthy through things like Luck, exploitation, borderline illegality, avoidance of taxes, and climbing all over other people. Not all of them, but many. That's quite a big generalisation there Pete. Lots of people have made big money by selling products/services that people like/need, and doing it either before or better than anybody else. Of course there are examples of the people you describe, but then there are also lots of people who have made money by taking a chance, employing people and increasing the wealth of the ecnomy as a whole. Yes, I agree. I tried, while generalising to make clear it's not "all rich folk", but nevertheless, many rich folk are rich as much through ,er, fortune as owt else. Whether it be born to rich families, born in the right place, so they can benefit from better education, or having a skilled potential workforce in their area - many many of the things that even your archetypal "hard working self made man" utilise are down to luck as much as their own hard work. And then there's the real people I was talking about and mentioned who are rewarded way beyond a level of merit, fairness, or justification from their efforts. Question is, where is the bar set, how do you set it? When is it too much? How do you state what somebody is worth? If someone earns 15K a year but makes a loss of to the company of 15K. i.e. they are of no value or someone who gets paid a million but can quantify a profit to the company and the economy of multiple millions. Also if they dont earn the money here, they can earn it somewhere else on the global market. If thats the case then its a global problem (which it is). How do you go about solving that?

London's such a busy place. How would you go about doing that? :winkold: I was hoping they would validate their comment as was sort of interested to see where they would go with it....

You contribute that money in order to pay for roads, infrastructure, schools, hospitals, emergency services, bombing foreigners, the expenses of former PMs, opportunities for many 'private sector' businesses and so on. and lots of people who cant be bothered to work's Sky TV....

Surely it does? 50% of it when I last looked at the tax rules. Personally I think we are taxed too much. I earn nowhere near the kind of money to hit 50% but the 40% tax threshold isnt that high, so when I work an extra 40 hours a week for my 2nd job I have to give 40% of it away, when other get money for doing nothing, how is that fair? Also whoever mentioned about scrapping London waiting quite obviously lives nowhere near London and really has no grasp of the real world. I rent a very small house in the suburbs and that costs £1200 a month and another 250 a month for train, the money starts to go quickly. Yes you can get cheaper if you want to live in an area like Camberwell. Not exactly the nicest place in the world and especially distressing to my other half who was hassled and grabbed by local lads once a week.

Where to start? You gave an example as to how Iceland wasnt all that great because of this poor guy with the debts and that we should feel sorry for him. It reminds me of the woman who sued Walmart for falling over her own kid. My point being the example in the article about Iceland is pointless due to the fact he racked up lots of debts by his own fruition and by using him as your example you are therefore defending his actions. Oh no, Im not making the finance sector to be a victim, i just wonder why you always put the blame there rather than those who spent more and more money they couldnt afford to "keep up with the Jones"? The whole debt culture is built out of wanting to have what others have because they feel they deserve it and it doesnt seem to matter if they are on benefits or in a high paid business job, they feel they should have the same. Perfect left wing ideology.... I agree that it has been a world problem but in the end our issues are at home and Brown should be responsible for raiding the excessive spending, the raiding of the pension funds and the selling of assets on the cheap. So whilst you keep talking about these idelogical attacks, that is just left wing propoganda as an excuse for the money they have wasted on essentially trying to buy votes. In the end the Tories are just trying to pay off the debts left by the Labour government and not for the first time either.....

Why complicating it? As i said the example you give is of somebody who spent well above there means and now they are in financial ruin. So on one hand your slapping the bankers for making money (I have some sympathy for that view point) but essentially saying at the same time its alright for people to rack up huge debts and for me to feel sorry for them when they end up in toilet. It doesnt seem to matter that a lot of these city workers are generating vast amounts of income to the treasurey through business and personal tax and work long hours to earn that money. Yet your advocating those who have spent too much money should just have their debts written off for free. I see that old left wing ideal of "leech as much as you can off those who make money" is alive and well. Wether its a guy in Iceland or a whole government, if you spend too much money on stuff you cant sit and moan about the situation, its your own fault or in UK PLC case, our fault for letting Gordon loose with the credit card.

I assume the example you are using here is the guy who borrowed far too much money from another country and cant pay it back and may lose everything? Well bad luck - you make your bed you lie in it. Same goes for the banks, should of let them go rather than the bail out, again if you try to make money investing in high risk investments then if it goes bad then tough. Thats how capatilism should work.

There is nothing "dated" about Fist of the North Star! ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATAT ATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATATA! Ahh my fellow Stokie I think you may be looking at it with rose tinted glasses, I watched this a year or so back and didn't feel the same love as when I first saw it all those years ago. On the other hand I think Akira has stood the test of time pretty well.

Actually anything under Ghibli is good (apart from tales of earthsea), especially Laputa, Princess Mononoke and Arriety. Fist of the North Star and Ninja Scroll are fun but probably a bit dated now. I personally wouldn't bother with Steamboy but I know some people like it. I just picked up Summer Wars and Girl that leapt through time on blu-ray but as yet not watched them - good reviews though.

What difference is there between paying down debt and increasing saving? The cost of money. Surely by clearing debt which is costing you more than the money you borrowed you would have more money to spend in the economy as you wouldnt be paying an extra say 50 a month in interest? Personally I like be able to buy stuff (consumerism) but the difference is you should earn it or at least be able to afford it. But alas jealousy prevails and we end up in Bright House Britain.

I thought Peter responded by pointing you in the direction of the paradox of thrift? Yes but I didnt say that money should be saved.

I think the royal family makes far more money for this country than they spend, I think too many people are too busy sticking it to the toffs to realise this. As for the bit about private debt, I suggested this a few pages back and it was swiped away because people wouldn't be spending money and as our economy is reliant on this spending it would stop froth blah blah blah. Point is the money they are spending is not real, it's just more debt or just holding the debt. At best it's just moving debt around. Surely if like myself people clear their debt, there would be more real money in the system and people would have more disposable cash because they are not paying 39.9% on their credit card. I think people having to live up to reality of the money they spent in the past rather than taking the easy IVA way out and actually paying their money back would make the economy a much stronger place.

Brilliant, Labour back in so we can go back to living on credit. It would be like the whole country's economy shopping at Bright House.

My quite sad achievement was that I went to a gaming exhibition in Olympia or Earls Court just after they released Street Fighter 2 on the SNES and Nintendo had their employed champion who was taking on challengers on a large screen in front of an audience. I had already imported it from America about 3 months before and was reasonably handy. Anyway perfected the guy in both rounds and took only one hit in a rematch, they gave me and my friend posters, t-shirts and a soundtrack.

I actually agreed with Cameron's first statement and for people to get away from the New Labour Buy Now, Pay Later culture which has spread through this country like a cancer. I was sadly one of the mugs who was taken in on the credit wave and at the point of a relationship break-up found myself 55k in the red. Now 3 1/2 years of cutting back on everything like sky tv, cars, drinking, smoking etc and taking on a 2nd job in my spare time I am debt free and every penny was paid back. Sadly others including the last government don't take responsibility for the money they spent and in some cases still think it's okay to keep up a higher standard of living even when they can't afford it.

I can only assume from the reactions that Big Eck and Randy went round to some of the posters parent's houses and took it in turns to violate their mothers.

I have a Tag similar(ish) to NurembergVillan and got it for a present quite a few years ago now and it only ever seems to be watch enthusiasts who ever notice it, so never had a worry about being mugged and I don't exactly live in one of the best of areas of London. I also recently got one of the Nike+ running watches and would have more worries about that being taken as it looks more gadgety. I would much prefer to spend my money on nice watches other than say on beer, smokes or Sky Tv.

Yep, I think having a gait analysis and getting suitable trainers is what has allowed me to run with my dodgy knee.

This thread and a challenge from a mate got me to start running 4 months back, I always enjoyed running but due to a couple of meniscus operations I have always been wary. I have had two weeks out from trying to run 10 miles and basically overloaded the knee but otherwise been pretty comfortable. I now run a few times a week around the parks in central London and love it and so happy I decided to push myself into it. Did my 2nd 10K yesterday and managed to take 5 mins off my time from my first one 9 weeks ago, so showing defintive improvement. Hoping to get faster and fitter over the winter and get into doing Triathlons next year.

Surely the difference is the time wasted is on their own dollar rather than that from the tax payers?

Genius!!

Slightly off-topic but I dont actually understand how people can afford to drink/smoke and feed themselves and children a healthy diet. I mean you can get high calorie value food relatively cheap but if you eat fresh veg/fruit/meat it costs the earth. I think it is interesting that the issues of obesity have come up today but it takes a lot of more money not to eat essentially bad food. As for the comment about Bright House above, couldnt agree more. i still dont understand how flat screen tv, sky and internet are base requirements for a basic standard of living.

Moved up to joint 13th, wish I hadnt changed Rooney to Aguero and made him captain otherwise would of made a few more places. Think I will change them back....

It was a bloody good job we had two girls, as we had agreed on girls' names within about half an hour of discussing it. We were at a total stalemate with boys' names though, would have been a nightmare. The wife and I can only agree on boy's names. We are really struggling with girl's names. It's not even that we can't agree on one, we are just drawing a blank. Is this a weird sign that we will have a boy? Did you by anychance choose the name jack ?....if not it must have been on the short list No Jack isn't on the shortlist but it was the most popular boy's name in Ireland last year. I like the name Jack, is on the shortlist (and was my late Grandad's name) but I think we already have a name that we like, still 3 months to wait though.