TheStagMan

Trump Out! Too soon?

I thought we were voting for one of the Kardashians next time?

Hmm, not sure how that happened. Sorry bud!

And I simply answered it. I have no burden of proving it, it is all on here for you (or others) to read at your convenience. I haven't been aggressive either, so maybe you too could, well, you know.

That's not the point though is it. If they (the "Right wing Anti PC brigade") were coming out and saying things lumping all manner of people together in a stereotype, they would be/are (rightly) berated for it, but when it is in the other direction, it is open season. "Your white and middle class, everything is your fault and you are a racist" is basically the theme of that article, and therefore you are wrong and aren't entitled to a say. Just like the left wing liberals all love democracy until the vote goes against them. If it was Trump supporters rioting in the streets, the condemnation would be absolute, but because it is left wing students and Hillary supporters, its being covered like they are the champions of humanity. For what it is worth, I am not in support of Trump. What I am in support of is democracy - WHATEVER the result (even if I don't like it). I am also for people being treated equally regardless of their skin colour (including people whose skin is white). The whole thing is just a **** up from start to finish. Neither Trump nor Hillary should have been anywhere near this contest. The two worst possible candidates. It was like neither side wanted to win!

There you go folks, if you don't agree with the liberal elite, you are a Racist. No doubt some of the Trump voters are, but again, broad brush, no concern for the issues that caused Trump to get in (Why on earth field Hillary over Bernie?). Everyone is wrong, its terrible, the country is full of racists and it is the white mans fault, the Democrats and their supporters are ignoring the issues and picking the easy targets again, until they wake up and deal with the issues that got Trump elected, things will not improve. And most of the problems identified in that patronising drivel above have worsened under Obama (or at the very least become more public). As a side note, "Nice" to see that the enlightened liberals who do not support Trump are burning flags, smashing up cars and buildings and generally causing "mischief" on the streets!

Interesting. I have read the treaty of Rome (and the Maastricht treaty) and I don't recall seeing that in there (it was part of a college thesis 20+ years ago).

NATO says Hello. I hate this argument. The EU has existed since the Maastricht treaty in 1993. 33 years ago. And for the first 10-15 years was in its infancy. The EU has NOT prevented war in Europe for longer than ever before, it was NATO and the UN and a collective fear of the USSR that kept Europeans from fighting each other since the end of World War 2 (48 years until the fledgling EU was born). Prior to this, the EEC (created in 1957 by the treaty of Rome) was a trading block, not a peacekeeping force, not a political union, and was very very different from the EU of today. It had no role in preventing wars. What it did do was bring the belligerent countries of the past closer through trade. That may have had a place in making them more amenable to each other, but it was NATO, the UN and the cold war that really kept Europe together. Apologies for going off topic.

Just to lighten the mood..... Can we blame Gabby for Trump's election victory yet?

At what point did i say I supported voting for Trump because a company I used to work for was up its own arse about upsetting people who might take offense to Christmas? I was responding to the point about only idiots believing that political correctness exists. back to the topic: People voted for Trump for a number of reasons. Dismissing them all as idiots is a retarded way of responding to the will of the people. The correct response would be to understand WHY it happened and look at the causes and fix them (if their are real, fix them, if they are perceived, fix the perception). Sitting around wringing hands and wailing about what a stupid decision it is and deriding people as idiots and crying about how nasty your country has become on national TV is not going to stop it happening. And it certainly wont stop it happening again. (not aimed at you, just a summary of FB, forums and TV this morning) Anyway, have to go out, so enjoy your debate guys (be nice!), will be back later

Thats not the point, the point was that overblown political correctness does exist in people's lives and most wont differentiate if it is the government, the company the work for or the stray cat down the street.

I was thinking the same thing. "Hmmmm, my opponent is doing well because the population feel that I am disconnected from them and live in a totally different world. What should I do....? I know, I will get Bon Jovi to tell them how great I am, and Lady GaGa, that will change their minds and convince them how down to earth I am." Terrible decision from Hillary.

*Ahem* I used to work for a large American oil company. We were sent a memo one year telling us that we were not allowed to refer to our "end of year" celebration as a "Christmas party" as it was offensive to some employees. We were also banned from having any Christmas decorations at or on our desks for the same reason. It does happen.

Whilst there are extremists on both sides of any fence, saying this about people who voted to leave a political union they do not believe in is very offensive and this level of stereotyping and tarnishing all people who disagree with the current political situation as xenophobes is one of the reasons that candidates like Trump will prevail - if the establishment ignores the will of the people, or dismisses their views (like you just have) and labels them as "wrong" then the people will eventually chose the alternative option warts and all. Being intellectually, morally and politically superior and smug (or thinking you/they are) is one of the problems here and in the US. To be clear: I absolutely do not support any form of racism or xenophobia. And lumping people who disagree with the status quo in with those that do is a narrow minded attitude that totally misses the point,and makes people feel even more disenfranchised. That is why people like Trump prevail (I am not happy with him being elected, but I am not going to lose my shit over it like people are doing all over facebook this morning) Like Brexit here, I believe that the majority of people who voted for Trump are people who want change, normal people who are dissatisfied with what the current leaders are doing. The nut jobs and wierdos that attach themselves to his side are unfortunaately the ones that get the publicity. Trump got over 50% of the popular vote (although it was very close to 50/50). Say what you like, but there is no way that 50% of Americans are Xenophobic racists. What Trump needs to do is make sure that the real racists and xenophobes do get kept under their rocks whilst making sure that the balance of political correctness does not impede rational debate about the issues the country is facing. I have travelled to the US quite a lot, and met a lot of people. I have also worked regularly with a team of Americans who I have gotten to know quite well, most of them are well rounded, decent human beings, well travelled, receptive and open. Many of them told me they would be voting Trump.

Shame the music is not as good this time around

Agreed, those around him and the secret service will keep him in check to some degree. I actually think he will serve out the full term and will run again. He is not the sort to give up. He might even get a second term Either way, American politics will need to take a good long look at itself over the next 4 years.

Really? You asked for quotes, I gave them to you. I haven't made them up thank you very much! all of those quotes are from the last four pages of this thread. Spend a few minutes reading back and you will find them. I'm not going to do your leg work for you. Lets not argue symantecs about whether the word "saved" was used. Those are comments of people who think he is needed, and will move Villa forward. I disagree that he is a. capable and b. deserving

Don't see why it would cost that much, the Emirates was a little under £400m IIRC and even the massively over-budget Wembley stadium was "only" around £750m *edit* Just watched the video. OK, that's why.

I don't know how I feel about this one. A new stadium like Tottenham's, the Emirates or even the Olympic Stadium would be awesome, BUT Villa park is one of the bastions of English football, it is one of the oldest traditional grounds in the country so much history and tradition there. I would hate to lose that. Most of all though, Villa park is still a very good stadium, with a decent capacity that can be extended reasonably easily to somewhere between 50,000-60,000. That said, we have enough land, and the area around is derelict and open enough to rebuild the stadium on the same spot into something awesome (e.g. not like Stamford Bridge). A lot of the stadiums where the club has physically moved are because the space around the stadium did not allow expansion, that is not really a problem for us. I get the point about the train and transfer links, and have myself been in the crush on the trains from New Street to Witton station for matches (hence the reason I now stay or park nearby and walk). Some improvement to public transport would be great (branch line into a Villa park station with match-day trains into New Street???? ) The North stand can go, no great loss, the Trinity and the Doug are fairly soul-less, but the Holte has to stay. Perhaps demolish three sides and put in a new, wrap-around bowl connecting to a free-standing Holte, with the corners filled in, but not actually connecting to the Holte - so overall a bowl, but with the Holte still separate, and the overall design somehow accentuating the Holte end (maybe if the bowl was higher overall, have a swooping roofline from about the halfway line down to the Holte roof). In this way, it would still retain the things that make it Villa Park (location, Holte, the pitch) but could become a massive new superstadium. Overall though, anything we do needs to be as part of an overall vision for the whole area. I'm sure that Dr X is the man for that. Brimingham has had a lot of investment in the 20 years since I left, hopefully the regeneration of the area, led by Villa can be the next phase.

several people... "So in theory gabby should be able to tear this league up" "he will frighten anyone in this league" "A fit Gabby would be one of the best strikers in the Championship. No doubt about it." "a fit and "up for it" Gabby would terrorise defences in this league" "Better option than McCormack IMO" "There is no better centre forward in this division when he is at his best" (admittedly that was Bruce being quoted) "he scares the living daylights out of Championship players" "he could easily look a step above in this league"

NO NO NO, for ****s sake. Going to have to bring some balance back to this. THERE IS NO WAY THAT THIS IDIOT DESERVES YET ANOTHER CHANCE. Whilst I will support any player who is on the pitch (because it makes no sense to impact the team whilst they are playing) I do not support this cretin being allowed to wear the colours of this great club. Having him playing is detrimental to the likes of RHM and Green developing, and it would not surprise me if they look at this and decide that their futures lie elsewhere. I guess that whilst there are people so desperate to get out of this league they will forgive anything that we have to put up with this embarrassment being allowed back into the fold. Doesn't mean that I have to like it. It sickens me to hear people saying how he will save us and how great it is that he is back. The thing that terrifies me about this is that Bruce is so in awe of him that he might decide that he is all we need to cover AFCON, and rather than developing our youngsters or going out and getting someone better in Jan, we end up relying on him and he lets us down again.

So, it will be a while then.

Thing is, that is exactly what we need and its needs must at the moment. I actually think Bruce could do well here given time and money. At the moment he is earining himself both of those commodities.

I already did. Sorry.

Gerard Houllier = P36 W14 D8 L14 Points = 50 Alex McLeish P42 W9 D17 L16 Points = 44 Paul Lambert P115 W34 D26 L55 Points = 128 Tim Sherwood P23 W10 D2 L16 Points = 32 Remi Garde P23 W3 D7 L13 Points = 16 Eric Black P7 W0 D1 L6 Points = 1 RDM P12 W1 D7 L4 Points = 10 I have included cup games as I dont have time to separate them out. So yes, in just 5 games he has won more points than Black and RDM, and is hot on the heels of Remi 60% win percentage