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He was terrible against Newcastle. The workrate of Gabby and Weimann completely showed Benteke up but, given he didn't offer us this, he could've at least done something with the ball. Even with the ball being lumped up to him, his headers were aimless and his touch was poor. Coloccini had about as easy a game as he could hope for. It's amazing seeing him play like this compared to the end of last season/start of this - like he's lost interest or something.

First point; similarly, a couple of good results and we could be completely away from the mire. That's generally how winning or losing goes. Second point; so you say that we're making (small) improvements but then also state that another 12 months of this will see us relegated? Where's the logic?

Everyone is looking long term. The difference is not everyone is content with the last two years as part of the building process. I don't believe we needed to experience two relegation worried years, worst home form in clubs history and other record breaking lows in order to rebuild. To accept all that means you don't think it could have been done differently, and to think that IMO means you've got low expectations for the club. Long term we probably all have similar expectations but that doesn't change what's happening now. Most people have been commenting on the long term situation and get this "lowered expectations" garbage. You're just contradicting yourself now. Also, "lowered expectations" from what exactly? The European Cup win of '82? The Premier League changes year on year and it'd be ludicrous to think that every team should stay in exactly the same position forever. Furthermore, it would be incredibly dull.

I don't understand people wanting to rush players in. Lambert gets slaughtered for signing League One players (rightly or wrongly - it's irrelevant) but then fans want to see our own youngsters go straight into the first team after impressing where? Oh yeah, League One.

"Well done Paul, you've kept us in the league whilst trimming down the squad to such an extent that the club is now sustainable. You're sacked". Yeah, ok

That's some crazy thinking to try and justify record lows. It makes sense though, doesn't it? Not saying that we are better as a team, but if everyone coming up is able to improve dramatically (spend a lot on transfers) on a relatively low wage base (Championship wages) then it makes it tougher for "established teams". Southampton, Swansea, to a longer-term extent West Brom and Stoke... they've come up and been able to compete with mid-table teams immediately. Norwich have been lower down, but still in the league whilst more established outfits (Bolton, West Ham, Newcastle etc.) have struggled and seen relegation. Obviously record lows are terrible but it's easy to see why it might happen in the current climate. I doubt we'll ever see another Derby 11 points season, for example.

Or that as the season continues there's less and less evidence to support the defence of the job he's doing. You're right - let's just sack him now.

Well if we lose it will be Paul Lambert/Randy Lerner's fault so I reckon you probably deserve the credit if we win. Your support for the team is **** awesome after all.

Getting relegated when the TV money increased would have been disastrous. We shouldn't have been in a position where we had to spend high to secure safety and no one expected ridiculous money but last Jan was a massive gamble. I said all along I wanted a season where relegation wasn't a worry. I think around 11th/12th would be a decent finish but those expectations are more down to the manager than the owner. So what we've done is not splash out a ridiculous amount on a transfer to gamble on being safe (Darren Bent) and we're currently performing higher in the league than your expectations. Seriously BJ, chin up mate. People keep talking about "black and white thinking", well here is an example. There is a middle ground between two loan signings and spending £20 odd million. I'm calling the "middle ground" £10m (although, in truth, the loan signings will cost something). Name 2 players who you think could've been bought for a combined total of £10m in January that would've been an improvement on Bertrand and Holt on loan. Or, if you like, name another player who would've cost maybe £5m that would've improved the first team.

It's all part of the cycle BJ. I know in your head that Paul Lambert and Randy Lerner are the sole reasons for anything bad at Aston Villa, but the truth is that there are a number of factors involved and the fans play a part. I have no idea what Randy Lerner attending games would mean for us by the way, but you love beating this drum. Please explain.

Getting relegated when the TV money increased would have been disastrous. We shouldn't have been in a position where we had to spend high to secure safety and no one expected ridiculous money but last Jan was a massive gamble. I said all along I wanted a season where relegation wasn't a worry. I think around 11th/12th would be a decent finish but those expectations are more down to the manager than the owner. So what we've done is not splash out a ridiculous amount on a transfer to gamble on being safe (Darren Bent) and we're currently performing higher in the league than your expectations. Seriously BJ, chin up mate.

A decline would imply that we've moved backwards consistently - in 2010/11 we finished 9th, then (declined to) 16th in 2011/12. 15th in 2012/13. Currently 10th in 2013/14. Moving forwards isn't a decline. Also, our home support is pretty poor. Firstly, in terms of sheer footfall. In fact, the only team in the league that has a worse average attendance:ground capacity ratio is Sunderland (82.5% full on average - we're at 84.5%) which is shoddy given that we're based in the second biggest city in England and there are only 2 top flight clubs in this region at the moment. Secondly, in terms of vocal support we're generally quiet. If in a period of buoyancy, we can certainly be noisy but on the whole, we're quite subdued and easy to boo.

Surely, by keeping costs low, our long term future hasn't been gambled with? If we spent high and still got relegated, that right there is gambling with our long term future. The thing that, actually, it appears that you're unhappy no matter what. Most people who you have previously deemed "accepting of lower expectations" (words to that effect) have stated what they think should happen, where they'd want us to finish etc. etc. Can you actually put any tangible element into your moaning? As lexicon asks, what would make you happy? What position is acceptable? What level of spending isn't being "on the cheap"? We all want great, attacking, entertaining football - but let's be realistic here.

Exactly, the moaning and the level of expectation is not the end product of a particular scoreline in a particular match it is a cumulative effect of nearly four seasons of playing boring football and not winning many games at home. When people have been subjected to an inferior product over a sustained period of time is it any wonder that they are not full of the joys of spring and they have a sense of 'de ja vu' every time we go a goal down? Hold on a moment. These forums (and likely a good section of Villa fans) were buoyed by the performance in drawing 2-2 at Liverpool and "looking forward to this kind of football more often". The very next game and they're booing after 8 minutes. Frustration at going behind to your rivals, I completely understand... but booing? It serves no purpose at all and, unfortunately, our fans are among the "best" at doing it. You can cite poor football over seasons as the reason, sure. The one thing we actually have the ability to do, though, is support the team. We have no say over what team the manager picks, how much the owner spends, what formation we play etc. etc. The ONE thing we can do is actively get behind the players on the pitch and create a better atmosphere for them to play in. Unfortunately, a vast proportion of our fans don't want to do this. Because it's "their right" to boo. You're only contributing to the downward spiral. Ok you win, the fans are to blame for all the crap that Villa have served up for the last few years because if they jumped for joy and sang their hearts out oblivious to the rubbish served up week after week then Villa would be so much better. Couldn't be wider of the mark. Of course fans aren't to blame for poor football (no idea where you've got that from?) but they are completely conducive to a bad atmosphere at home games, which may well "encourage" the shit football. As an incredibly basic example, you're more likely to try different things if you're encouraged to do so. If you're being called shit, you wouldn't want to show yourself up so you play it safe. In football terms, this may be the difference between trying to pass it out of defence (risky) or simply hoofing the ball away (safe). Instead of attempting a cutting through ball that might go astray (risky) you opt for the pass back to your defence (safe). Essentially, absolving yourself of any further blame from people who you know will boo you.

Exactly, the moaning and the level of expectation is not the end product of a particular scoreline in a particular match it is a cumulative effect of nearly four seasons of playing boring football and not winning many games at home. When people have been subjected to an inferior product over a sustained period of time is it any wonder that they are not full of the joys of spring and they have a sense of 'de ja vu' every time we go a goal down? Hold on a moment. These forums (and likely a good section of Villa fans) were buoyed by the performance in drawing 2-2 at Liverpool and "looking forward to this kind of football more often". The very next game and they're booing after 8 minutes. Frustration at going behind to your rivals, I completely understand... but booing? It serves no purpose at all and, unfortunately, our fans are among the "best" at doing it. You can cite poor football over seasons as the reason, sure. The one thing we actually have the ability to do, though, is support the team. We have no say over what team the manager picks, how much the owner spends, what formation we play etc. etc. The ONE thing we can do is actively get behind the players on the pitch and create a better atmosphere for them to play in. Unfortunately, a vast proportion of our fans don't want to do this. Because it's "their right" to boo. You're only contributing to the downward spiral.

Do you actually mean that you really wish the Villa fans who are prepared to pay good money and watch dross most weeks would be more vociferous than those who have had enough after nearly four seasons of crap being foisted upon them? Like it or not football fans are fickle, at 2-0 down to Albion fans were understandably frustrated, however a minority by me were slating Lambert, however those same fans were singing his name after the game. It's not understandable at all to me. A wonder goal and an own goal were the reason we were 2-0 (having started by far the brighter team) and the fans started booing immediately. After 8 **** minutes. Villa Park is a horrific place for a home team to play football imo - the atmosphere is toxic as soon as we go a goal down. I think it goes a long way to explaining why our home form sucks in comparison to our away form where the fans aren't immediately on the teams collective backs. Edit: It's the same short term-ism that sees people calling for Lambert's head after 18 months in charge. There's no acceptance that a game is 90 minutes/a season is 38 games and that we should actually support Aston Villa - just look for the immediate negatives and criticise them/boo the team.

Trying to compare Arsenal and Villa r.e: youth players is hilarious. Arsenal have such a good team that they can comfortably afford the luxury of having, for example, Gnabry play a game every now and then against lesser league opposition. He's got no pressure on performing, just to adapt to the league and how fast/physical/whatever it may be. The players around him are good enough to take away any expectation of him (however good he may actually be). Aston Villa are currently in a relegation fight of sorts (7 points away?) with an average squad that simply doesn't have the luxury of putting in youth players who actually need to make an impact straight away. If they failed, their confidence is knocked and they may start doubting themselves. Why would you put this kind of pressure on a young talent? We're already bigging up Jack Grealish as the next messiah or something - let's just let him develop naturally and see what happens, eh?

What exactly is my argument then Houlston? All I said was that defensive football is still football. Being defensive and not conceeding urgo = defending well. Also; But hey, feel free to make out that I'm saying Lambert is the messiah or whatever else suits

I don't see why playing negatively is seen as something that should NEVER EVER HAPPEN. Like, we should go into games and just play attacking football all day long because we cannot possibly be negative. There's a time and a place for it. Chelsea had something like 37 shots against West Ham, but mainly from long range and rarely troubled their keeper. The result? West Ham gain a valuable point which could well keep them up. Imagine them playing attacking football and getting hammered 8-0 like we did last season? Could well put them down. That's the decision you have to make in football sometimes. I'm not saying we were "right" to do this against Everton, but they are a possession-based team which holds the ball and passes their way through - much like Arsenal, but less gifted. Our tactics worked perfectly for 45 minutes to an hour, we managed to take the lead and soak up most of their attacks. Surely this is defending well? Even if you don't like it, it's playing well in a defensive context. Football isn't just about attacking.

Yep, there really is no excuse this summer. The most important thing is for the wages to be increased so we can add quality additions. Disagree, it's not about the wages. You can get reasonable talent for 40-50k, we don't need to be pushing any higher than that imo. However, what is needed is actual talent. As I've said many times, we've got an actual squad in place now so any purchases should be quality rather than quantity. I've been completely behind the clear out of high wages and bringing in cheap players but, as I've also said before, this summer is the time to add some proper players.

The thing is, the manager hasn't been backed. For over a month he has said he wants a number 10, we knew this anyway because we were in for them in the Summer. Earlier this month he stated that he had many targets for the position, he then stated that it is an expensive position to fill and from the targets he had identified no deals could be struck. We then have had the Hoolahan saga but we couldn't even get him, in fact we probably never would have. This is the worry for me, I didn't expect us to splash out, but I did expect the manager to be backed. We've brought in two loan deals, that pretty much says it all about our financial situation. We aren't safe yet by a long shot, fair enough we are getting there but if the manager of the team believes we need a certain type of player then you'd expect him to be backed to bring said player in so that we can secure safety and push ourselves up the league. The fact that after we signed Bertrand on loan Lambert had to come forward and say we may not be able to afford him in the Summer speaks volumes about the ambition of the board. Good post and this is an obvious problem - although not many deals are struck for affordable yet classy attacking midfielders in January. This is why summer is huge, if Lambert isn't backed by Lerner (or whoever else may be there), that speaks volumes about the ambition of the board. They might think they've done enough to survive this season and therefore aren't paying over the odds. The thing you don't want is Lambert getting frustrated...

Assuming we stay up (which we should), the summer will be huge. I understand not splashing out in January completely as we're not going to push on to any material extent this season, but something needs to happen in the summer.

"I want a really wealthy businessman to run my football club and not care about the business side of it because it's just sport" is an incredibly naive way to think about it. Also, winning and competition? With Aston Villa?

Will be Arsenal IMO. Backup for Giroud. So Arsenal are signing Kim Kallstrom and Jelle Vossen? Are they just picking up random awesome players from the CM/FM series?

Wrong.