Copey11

winning That is my favourite style. think MON 2.0. With several new apps like: Ball retention squad rotation substitutions tactics and a free trial version of anti virus software to prevent that pesky Heskey virus from getting into your operating system.

When we play Sunderland we can chant "Our MON is better than your MON!"

we don't actually have a style at the moment though, do we? We have essentially a blank slate as the MON squads are almost completely gone now (minus the back four, who are on their way out soon enough). I do think we have the players to play a flexible retention and counter attacking style, based on the opponent, which seems to favor Lambert approach. Ireland, NZog, Gardner, Carruthers, these are all players comfortable with the ball at their feet and passing, but can be direct as well, and with Bent and Weimann also being able to make runs for through balls, or play on the shoulder and get into the box for crosses. We just need some defenders that are more comfortable on the ball, but Clark, Lichaj, maybe Stevens and Baker in the future might be able to play that way.

I think Lambert is a fine manager, and I would support him and I think he would be a good appointment. But I have this feeling that Lerner is after AVB, even with his demands, because although there are strong demands, i think they align nicely with what I believe the board wants: longevity, a top to bottom plan, exciting football, commitment. I think, with these types of demands come a lot of negotiation on both sides. I think that OGS as a plan B could be considered an AVB Light option, without the higher demands, but similar philosophies and commitments, and they got "caught" a bit in talking to him. I think Martinez was perhaps plan C, but Lerner was not happy to wait for Liverpool. I hope that perhaps he has gotten far enough down the road with AVB, and AVBs options are sufficiently off the table, that we are close to signing him and would prefer to wait and see (like you did to us RM) and that's the message we sent to Martinez, who was put under the gun by Whelan to commit or move on. Anyway, I hope that is the case. If AVB is indeed demanding those kinds of commitments, I am sure that we would make some demands in turn to protect us.

Will be an interesting season for Liverpool. I like Rodgers, but he will have a bit of a conundrum, with a squad of senior players on high wages, bought for a different playing style. Sure, there's a few that will match Rodgers style, but several, especially the ones with some years left on the contracts, won't. Will he try to install his system, or try a more gradual approach? I can see them treading water for a season, if they let him last that long.

so, with the Lambert thread locked I felt I needed to say something somewhat specifically to BOF, to whom I bow down in football knowledge in general, but with whom I disagreed about the qualifications of Lambert. I could never eloquently put my feelings into words about why I felt he was not right, until tonight watching the US-Scotland friendly and looking at the juxtaposition of Bradley vs. Klinsman. I feel like Lambert, like Bradley, is looking at the team behind him, thinking how can i be a bit better than them. This leads to excellent man management, great motivation, occasional tactical genius. All things to be admired. Managers like AVB, Klinsman, others. maybe rogers, martinez, look at the teams one, two, several places ahead of them and think how can i be better than them. This leads to things like changing training, philosophy from the youth level, attitude, nutrition, etc. It leads to trying out players perhaps no one has considered before for a specific role, to do a certain thing well, not just be the most obvious candidate because the papers wrote that he was. that is what worries me about a manager like Lambert. I think he has more flexibility than MON, and more tactical awareness, but he strikes me as someone who is keenly aware of what he has to do to just remain above expectations, rather than someone who is challenging for greatness. I wrote a post that what I want from our next manager is a plan that utilizes every positive aspect of AVFC, which includes the academy and facilities. I do not see Lambert doing that. I see him ensuring that we move up a position in the table, or do not lose a position in the table, that we meet or slightatly exceed expectations. I know that he has vastly exceeded expectations in the last few years with Norwich, and in his first year in the PL (though if any of the bottom teams, including us, performed at all he might have been in a relegation fight), but I think his way of managing, and his tactics, will be hard to replicate now, and certainly will be difficult to translate into CL challenging contention.

Go Brad! some more excellent passes from Bradley. I believe we missed a trick with him. I think he will be a typical US player overseas that comes into his own a bit later, but is excellent. again, Serie A may be the best training ground for him at this point. I think he is poised for pretty big things in the next couple of years. I predict he goes back to germany, and ends up in England within 2 seasons. BTW, Scotland being truly embarassed here.

was quite nice, was it not? Donovan with a second. Bradley has looked excellent, and better than Delph, Bannan have ever really looked. and has really been playing like that for awhile now. Never really got the chance at Villa, during a tough time. and I am no US homer.

cracking kits on the US side, had not seen those. Bannan being Bannan, chasing people around, making no tackles, no interceptions, 1 excellent cross field pass, but everything passing him by. Bradley looks great, Serie A has done him well. pass and move, one touch, getting into space. Boyd looks promising. quick and strong, unafraid to get at his marker. All in all a good performance from the US.

the word "monetize". If I have to hear another talking head ponder the future of the internet and how facebook and google are going to "monetize" the eyeballs I might through things through the television.

It will be a very cold, dry, vodka martini with cocktail onion (just one). Followed by a Chianti Classico to go along with my home cooked italian dinner. after that probably back to the vodka in order to survive the NY Rangers game

Seems that the point in question here is not how good/bad Carlos is, whether we wanted him to get a new contract or not, but rather how he and we perceive the handling of players and by extrapolation the club's business in general by the board/CEO. Now, what is relevant here is that in the last two seasons we have been essentially in relegation battles, with a wage bill issue, and with first year managers with uncertain futures. To that end, who should be sorting out player contracts? My assumption would be the manager would be meeting on a regular basis with the CEO/board for a variety of things, not the least of which would be player contracts and plans for the immediate term (how are we going to survive?) and the coming offseason (what are our needs?). During both of the seasons Carlos could only be considered a fringe player by the managers, coming into the frame when injury or horrendous form (I am looking at you Hutton) necessitated his use. I believe he performed well when called upon, but obviously in the opinion of the managers not well enough to establish himself as a first XI mainstay (our opinions here don't count). Given that he was purchased and paid to be just that, he wasn't offered a new contract. Now, who's job is it to communicate that? I see Faulkner getting a lot of stick here, and even Lerner, but to me that is up to the manager. In each of these cases the manager clearly not only didn't want Carlos to get a new contract, but the manager's future was in doubt as well. Would we, prior to letting Houllier or McLeish go, want our CEO to be talking to players about contracts, not knowing if the next manager in would rate him? We would go ballistic (again, substitute Hutton for Carlos in the same contract situation - had Faulkner offered a new contract in the same situation, without knowing the managers situation, we would have strung him up). In the past other players were certainly offered new contracts, and on lucrative terms, before their contracts had wound down (Young, Downing, Barry, and I believe Milner), as they were firmly in the manager's plans. Many of the youth have recently extended their contracts in the past year, Friedel was offered one, Gabby has signed a new one, so clearly the CEO, when in alignment with a manager, has had the requisite talks and communications. In this case, if something was promised to Carlos, it was only on the basis of what the manager wanted, in which case we didn't have one. I wouldn't expect any contact needed to be made in those instances as Faulkner surely wouldn't be extending contracts on a player who has not been a regular starter for the past two seasons in the absence of a new manager. I like Carlos, I do think he is at worst equal to, if not better than our CBs, and I think he would have signed a contract for the same amount of money. But I certainly don't want that to happen in the absence of a manager, which has been the case for two seasons running.

Not sure if I am on the blame lerner bandwagon just yet. It seems around here now that "Lerner can't hire a manager" is just a euphemism for "we didn't get my first choice". Also, this idea that we are going about this wrongly is misguided to a degree. Firstly, the board said they were looking for someone young and vibrant and would be interviewing multiple candidates. They have said nothing else and have gone on to interview OGS potentially on the recommendation of Klinsmann. Now, I believe Lerner was being gracious, as well as putting AVFC's best foot forward by offering up the jet for a manager in a job, with a match in a few days. It got out, and all hell broke loose, including a love in from many fans, but Villa still never said a word and OGS, who had an existing job to look after and NO offer from Villa, graciously backed out knowing Villa was talking to other candidates. Should Villa have made an offer immediately? Whilst I too liked OGS, he is merely "poised" for success, perhaps has a good possibility of success, but he certainly hasn't proved it and has such a limited set of data to review that at least another conversation would need to be had before putting together an offer. Many posters here were not 100% convinced, and I am sure the man who has to pay him wants to be a little more sure of such a young, inexperienced potential hire. On to the rest of the list. I believe that there is money out there, as the wage bill has become more manageable, as well as Lerner knowing that he can't hire another McLeish so he is going to have to pony up something (which he generally has). Also, what club out there seeking a manager (ex. Chelsea/Liverpool) is going to offer more in transfer funds and manager's wage? Who has a better infrastructure for implementing a manager's vision? So any young manager looking to move to the PL, or up a rung on the PL ladder would be a fool to not at least seriously consider Villa. So I don't buy the idea that OGS was offered something and it wasn't a good offer. I think they have a short list that consists of: 1. secret and ambitious (sounding them out via back channels to gauge interest) 2. secret and ambitious 3 - 5. known PL quantities (martinez, Lambert, Rodgers) 6. Other less known, riskier proposition that fit the criteria (OGS, ?) 7. KMAC The known PL quantities don't require an immediate interview as their body of work is pretty well known, and with whom perhaps Lerner has an unwritten agreement that he won't approach for an interview thereby unsettling the manager and club unless he is 99% sure he is offering the position, or if they are given permission to speak with another club as well (I think its this way with both Martinez and Lambert). Lerner perhaps has had some interest from his more ambitious prospects, perhaps it is someone like AVB who said he would like to hear from Liverpool and Roma before moving forward, and Lerner says its worth the wait as long as Lambert et al haven't been approached yet (and Delia hasn't rung up to give the heads up), so he is willing to wait a bit. The cost? OGS, who is farther down the list and perhaps in Lerner's eyes he is confident someone higher up the list is attainable and doesn't want to gamble on OGS just yet. We will never know what is going on behind the scenes. Many might say "just get Lambert now, don't leave it to chance", but if we were to get Lambert, what if later we were to find out AVB was actually willing to take on the Villa project? (fill in whoever your first choice, attainable or not, instead of AVB if you like). Would we have "settled" for Lambert? The fear is always what happened last season when the supply was weak and limited, our position was equally tenuous, and our options dwindled quickly (though i think we are far out ahead of this search this year). And that could happen, though I think that Lerner would opt for young vs. retread this season after McLeish, but I believe we are going about things the right way this time, or at least I hope so.

the fact of the matter is that we have a lot of work to do on the squad from a talent level, playing style, and wage/revenue ratio perspective. that does not mean that we shouldn't or wouldn't have certain players or positions on higher wages than others, relative to the value provided to the team. In that case, players like Given, Ireland, and Bent, who have performed and earned their wages so to speak (IMO) should be retained pretty much at all costs. Efforts should be made to rebuild and reinforce the rest of the squad, depending on the managers preferences. Any distraction from that task just gets in the way, may use funds in a way that is counterproductive, and just be trying to fix one of the few things we have that isn't catastrophically broken. Could we do better / cheaper than Given? Maybe, but we don't have to do it now. If we did the money would have to be truly, truly absurd.

this scares the crap out of me because the FSG guys have a plan, and they will follow it and support it even if it means being unpopular for a time and sacking RAWKs King. I hope they go after Capello and the likes, because if they get AVB I fear they will be challenging the top again sooner rather than later. He fits the FSG approach (loosely moneyball way for lack of a better term), has a methodical style, a plan, and will implement it from top to bottom at the club, play a style that can win things, and they will be better for it. And FSG will back him if those things are in place. Kenny got sacked not just because of their poor table finish, but because he has no plan, no style. When they couldn't win he had no idea what to do. I am sure they suspected this, and when he was called on the carpet was asked what his plan was, what style of play they would use, they didn't like his answers if he even had any.

I would like to see "a man with a plan". Someone who can take the assets and strengths of the club and put them to use in developing a playing style that can compete at the highest levels of the PL, and Europe, and has a scouting network able to take advantage of those assets. Those assets being a world class training facility, a richly stocked academy and youth system already being trained technically, an already large and potentially expandable stadium in an area where there is sufficient population for growth. This person would need to be given time to implement that plan, though show progress along the way. Progress measured by the creation of a consistently competitive senior team playing a specific style, balanced with senior players and youth picked as fits for that style, with a controlled wage bill that accurately reflects the players ability, importance, and stage of career. It would also be measured by the level of talent that is being attracted into the academy system both from England as well as overseas, and the academy's ability to produce home grown players capable of slotting into the first team both in skill level, but also in playing style. As that progress is made I expect to see us move up the table as existing players that are too old or don't fit the system move on through natural attrition (sold or contracts wound down), and areas of opportunity identified where investment could be made. For example, if there is an attainable upgrade over what we have in the senior squad that is affordable for us, we would see Lerner make the transfer investment and upgrade the team. I know on some level this sounds like Barca model, and in some ways it is. But I guess I would like Villa to have its own style, and have that style run through all levels of the club, really be an identity and an ethos for the club, and a style that has the chance to create champions. I don't know who fits this bill, but I would like to be able to know that this is the type of plan they have in mind, and that both the board and the manager are aligned on the vision. This is what frustrated me the most at the time of the McLeish appointment. It wasn't his CV, it wasn't where he came from, it just didn't seem to match any of the existing Villa strengths and he seemed to have no plan. Anyway, happy to hear suggestions. Whilst not really attainable, i think AVB is the type of management philosophy, if not playing style, we would be looking at. Fire away.

Vikes had an offer on the table for sure. Tampa would never confirm after the fact because who wants to tell their 1st round you wish they were someone else? The minute cleveland took Richardson Tampa traded back (their guy off the board), and also traded up into the first round to get the second best RB. Not to mention Browns and Vikes GMs are friends and both said that in general GMs don't straight up lie about these things. also, the Browns only gave up a 4/5/7 to move up to guarantee they get their man. they had 2 fourths, 2 fifths, and a 3 sevens. The only concern about weeden I have is that there really is no margin for error. He has to be the man right now. You can't sit him for two years to develop. He needs to be fully a fully developed QB by year three, not ready to come off the bench for games in year three. But if they thought he was worth it, he certainly is a bigger, better thrower than Colt (who btw was never the answer, nor did the team think he was - 3rd rounder they never expected to play).

Rush Limbaugh Dick Cheney Ray Lewis (sorry Dante) Tom Cruise

and a good friend of mine! (though I don't condone the actions under question).

very subtle, made me laugh out loud.

I understand that, but I wonder to what degree physical projections play a part. I played pro hockey, and I know there were scouts at tournaments that would show up and just cross off every player below a certain size. Though I was a bit small, my all around talent and vision of the game was on par with top players, but my size, while not a complete hindrance, was a reason to go after a larger player with a similar and in some cases less talented skill set. Smaller players with some sort of special skill would be looked at however. In the scouting combine you have certain measurements taken that are designed to understand what a prospects "potential" could be. As an example, corner backs are measured in a shuttle run to see how they move their hips, tackles have their arms measured, etc. These are designed to understand how high a "ceiling" they might have or if they will always be limited to some degree. I look at the Chelsea teams during the Mourinho era, and let's say Bayern now and they have these skilled players who are big, strong, and powerful. Perhaps they are no "better" than a mid-table player, but have these physical attributes that put them over the top. Furthermore, and more interesting, would be the "moneyball" win shares analyses. What are the statistics (e.g. possession, crosses, dribbles, passing percentages) that equate into a more possible chance at winning? Have you guys ever seen anything like that for football? The NBA, a similar team sport to football and hockey, is desperately trying to get this analysis right, and the idea that Liverpool would be using similar methods to aid the transfer process leads me to believe that there is at least a movement towards this. Obviously Barca spring to mind, and you can see them looking for young players that have certain characteristics that will fit their playing style at the expense of other players who, though incredibly talented, just won't work for them (Zlatan?). anyway, I know these are very different sports (NFL and football), but I believe there is some merit in using some of the player evaluation techniques in evaluating and identifying potential stars, especially for a club like ours that needs to identify less known but potentially great talent, and the actually infrastructure to develop that talent. thanks for the responses.

cool. I think it is an interesting topic and would love to hear what you guys have to say about it. I posted in the Barry Bannan thread about my thoughts on him that were taking into consideration some of these ideas, especially with regard to his size, applying some of the theories the NFL scouts use (NBA does the same).

don't know where to put this, but given the draft gurus we have in Dante and Bof and Kurtis, I thought this might be the place. I was thinking about the NFL combine and all the smokescreens and draft boards, as well as moneyball cooncepts and how they can be applied to or perhaps have similar concepts being done in football. what I like most about the combine/draft, and any moneyball concepts is this application of statistical theory to human performance. For example, the basic premise of moneyball wasn't really about the buy low sell high oakland A's, but rather the identification of certain skills that most closely correlate to wins (win shares). The combine is the NFL comparable to this (bear with me). the combine takes a bunch of players that are very similar and tries to identify ways in which they can be differentiated. Hand size for quarterbacks, arm length for tackles, shuttle runs for cb's, etc. these are ways to help slot talent that through film study are essentially the same, or perhaps have under/overperformed due to imperfect system fit, or inferior competition. My question is, does anyone know if there is a comparable exercise/theory being executed in football? Obviously Barca have a distinct style of play and therefore would put value on players with certain capabilities (close control, passing ability, vision/movement), and less value on perhaps size strenght (see: Zlatan). MON played a style that required pace on the wings and counterattacking over possession (perfect for Gabby, Carew, etc.). anyway, curious to see what you guys think and if you know of any emerging philosophies.

Ahhhhh, off topic. The cure for villatalk post-Wigan victory meltdown.

I watched AC Milan v Fiorentina yesterday after our match (I know, spoon full of sugar helps the medicine go down) and I particularly concentrated on Robinho when he came on. Now, obviously Robinho is/was a world class talent, but just watching the runs he makes from the left channel was really telling. I remember seeing him make those same runs and Ireland finding him again and again. And then seeing Robinho take a man on down the left channel and feeding Ireland with great chances. Ireland, especially in the first half was getting into the same positions but Gabby just wasn't making the right run, if any at all. Furthermore, I don't think Ireland trusts Gabby, and probably anyone playing on the right lately (I think NZog could form a partnership here) to make his run as we don't beat anyone nor do any of our players have that vision to see the run. That's what we are missing right now. I think Weimann and Bent have good movement, and NZog could do these things, but none of our other attacking players are on the same wavelength right now.