Big_John_10

We have for 2 years as he signed all of them his first window. The result is no progress.

It can't be. Lambert wouldn't say he didn't know what's happening if he and Lerner were staying.

Don't think he's getting much stick. He's just not highly rated by some. Why does one result mean more than the other 37 games. So conceding 7 in a game is okay for a supposedly good defence, they were on the decline after the cup final and it was there for all to see. OK, this is going way off topic about vlaar.

Why does one result mean more than the other 37 games.

I think a keeper is different. You can clearly see if a keeper is at fault for a goal and in our case I don't think many can be laid on him. With a defender its not always about obvious individual mistakes and errors. Take the first bony goal against Swansea, not a massive error from an individual, just shit defending. It happens far too often and its why we've conceded a ridiculous amount of goals under Lambert.

Would you walk away from a pay off? Probably not which is why I'd respect him if he did.

Guzan was our player of the year when we conceded 69 league goals. He just adds to the argument of how bad our current defence is.

I'd respect him a lot more if he did quit.

It proves that under MON, they weren't as great as you were making out. That one game proves that? Regardless of dunne making team of the year and us conceding less goals than the vast majority of the league. I think they were both comfortably better. Dunne especially so.Comfortably better, Dunne currently in the Championship, Collins a back-up at West Ham. Yep keep telling yourself they are comfortably better than him.I didn't say are I said were. Maybe we'll see better of vlaar under a better manager. After all dunne and Collins were poor once houllier came. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/8587517.stm Was Houllier manager for this game, thought not. You should check out how many we conceded in the other 37 games. Why should I check that, they were paid twice as much as Vlaar and by your accounts comfortably better players but still ended up conceded 7 in a game. Surely if they were that good, they wouldn't be conceding those levels surely. Don't know what money has to do with it. And I've answered the other point above. We had a superb defence that year.

Do two individual games from two different seasons really prove much?

I think they were both comfortably better. Dunne especially so.Comfortably better, Dunne currently in the Championship, Collins a back-up at West Ham. Yep keep telling yourself they are comfortably better than him.I didn't say are I said were. Maybe we'll see better of vlaar under a better manager. After all dunne and Collins were poor once houllier came. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/8587517.stm Was Houllier manager for this game, thought not. You should check out how many we conceded in the other 37 games.

Dunne made the premiership team of the year and with Collins formed one of the best defences in the prem that year. At 29 years old I don't think vlaar will be able to do either of those things.

I think they were both comfortably better. Dunne especially so. Comfortably better, Dunne currently in the Championship, Collins a back-up at West Ham. Yep keep telling yourself they are comfortably better than him. I didn't say are I said were. Maybe we'll see better of vlaar under a better manager. After all dunne and Collins were poor once houllier came.

I think they were both comfortably better. Dunne especially so.

Did he do anything that any athletic footballer couldn't do? I'm not having a go at him as it's not fair to judge him on a game against the champions were we set up to defend. But at the same time what did he do apart from run around a lot? Only Nathan baker touched the ball less times than him and he also had one of our lower pass completion rates. Fair play for the effort but I don't think this game showed he's a good player at this level.

TBH takeover or no takeover I think Lambert is going. 37 games and he doesn't know if he will be here next season. That tells me he won't.

If MM is saying PF doesn't know much that could suggest we are far from being taken over and supports what Trent said.

I'd be very surprised if a new manager did much worse.

Collins and dunne were an excellent defence during MON's last season.

Dunne made the premiership team of the year. I can't see vlaar ever managing that.

Well you seem to be going to extraordinary effort to ignore any evidence in this thread that shows Vlaar might actually not be rubbish. But then immediately saying other people are ignoring evidence when they dare to have a different view than you. I've not ignored it at all. I've acknowledged the evidence that shows vlaar improves us when he plays and I've given credit when I felt he deserved it.

you do know we were playing against a team that had a player that cost more than our 1st 11 combined and probably his weekly salary is more than them as well but yeah great point If I was basing my point just on last night then well done. But I wasn't. I said another 4 goals. How many times has that happened recently?

I don't think anyone disagrees that we're better with vlaar than without him. That's mainly due to the other options not being good enough. We're still a poor defence with vlaar in it.

I 100% agree. What's embarassing is that's now 127 goals we've conceded in the two years under Lambert and currently only the bottom 3 have conceded more.

I think it's pretty simplistic to ignore evidence and facts.