HolteExile

Whats the difference between Ireland and Iceland?

Anywhere between a 33-36, depending. Used to be a regular 32. 5ft 8 and 83kgs. Think my ideal weight is somewhere around 75kg. 34 jeans are normally too loose and look baggy around the arse. 32 Jeans look better but constrict my breathing, so it's akward if there's no 33's knocking about. Bought some formal trousers last week and they were 36. A narrow 36, but it still a bit of a blow to the old self esteem.

Neither for me. Good in the first half of the 2001/2002 season. Very good in the 2003/04 season. So what, a season and a half out of 6 years? That might be good enough for the likes of SHA (who laughably accclaim Duggary to be their second best player of all time -he was there less than a year), not even close to legend material for me. But calling him an out-and-out flop is probably a step too far. There have been many worse players to wear the C and B over the years. Was never the same player after his knee injury in 2004. Was never the quickest, but after that he always seemed to be a yard off the pace. A shame, as I reckon in a good Villa side -like now- he could have thrived. We used him as a target man, which I don't ever think was his natural game. I viewed him more as a Peter Beardsley-type forward (without the Quazi Modo looks obviously).

I don't believe there would be a big take-up for standing if it was more expensive than seats. That would completely defeat the purpose. Part of the original appeal was that it was a cheaper, more 'basic' way to house supporters and this lead in turn to the atmopshere/ industial language. Cannot see it ever returning for the reasons outlined previously (much as I'd like it to). Don't think cost would be an issue. How much would it be to remove the seats from the lower Holte for example, and install crush barriers or the bench style partitions on display in German grounds. The investment in CCTV and a fear of a potential increase in crowd-related disturbances would be the main obstacles. Who would want to carry the can for effectively authorizing/encouraging the latter? I don't think it's a given that trouble would follow automatically, particularly not at VP. But any incidents at other grounds would be seized upon by all the usual suspects and held up as a glowing example of declining standards/ an out of touch Labour party et.c. In short- outside of delighted football fans obv - too many would have potentially too much to lose.

Calander year -Ashley Young. Closely followed by Laursen. Season to date - Petrov.

Think membership might be dependant on a bit more than two decent results against the Sky 4. Everton have been 'best of the rest' for the past few years, thats how the rest of the country view us at present. No mean feat in itself, many sides would swap places with us in an instant. But to be thought of as part of the 'establishment' means operating towards the top end of the table over a consistent period - 3/5 years minimum, and being genuinely in the hunt for the games biggest prizes. We are closer to that aim than we were in 2006, but there is still a long, long way to go yet.

On the basis that always means just that : always as in they always finish lower than, there will always be an underclass, Birmingham City have/will always be a laughing stock. It's a description/statement/ summing up that can only be based on past history/ indicators and current information to hand. You've had the dictionary definition of the word. It's been made clear to you that there is no realistic comparison between Everton/Liverpool and SHA or ourselves. Care to revise your original statement?

Don't get you. Explain this to me as if , I too, had a problem with big words. Like always. What mistake?

Didn't need to twist your words, the weakness and inaccuracy of your original statement was easily open to ridicule by anyone who has a basic grasp of the English language and a vague knowledge of English football dating back further than ten years.

Exactly the same for us with small heath but in our instance smal heath actually broke an agreement that neither club should take the name of the city Hasn't worked out too badly though has it? Imagine if there had been broad agreement from directors at both clubs many moons ago. Birmingham United? Why should the urchins down the road be allowed to lay claim to any of our early successes? Quite happy we have the name we do have, it's one of the reasons I love the club. Aston Villa, Everton, Tottenham Hotspur? Unique, individual. Manchester/ Newcastle/Oxford United? Manchester/ Bristol/ Birmingham City? Bland, unimaginative.

Not disputing that old chap, just pointing out it hasn't always (there's that word again ) been the case and could change in the not-too-distant. Not sure why it irks me to the extent it does, I guess its like when B-lose had their brief revival in 2003 and ill-informed outsiders were trying to suggest they could be the bigger club. Based on a few years underachievement from us. It's not a like-for-like comparison, I know. But comparing one of the most succesful sides in England (Everton), to a club who had an open top parade for winning the Leyland **** Daf is laughable.

Whats ill informed about you getting the wrong end of the stick? Not once have I mentioned 'always' the post is written in context of current and future. And no I have no crystal ball, butI have opinions and common sense. OK, so you're actually just using words you don't know the meaning of. Just for your benefit: Always Dictionary definitions: 1. every time; on every occasion; without exception: He always works on Saturday. 2. all the time; continuously; uninterruptedly: There is always some pollution in the air. 3. forever: Will you always love me? 4. in any event; at any time; if necessary: She can always move back with her parents. 5. Past, present and future. Kind of at odds with your 'common sense' endorsement of yourself too. Self praise is no praise and all that.

Tiresome. You made a comparison with one of the countries biggest clubs and our piss-poor local rivals. There is no comparison. Always in the shadow of their rivals. Where did you say from now on originally? You've merely revised a wholly inaccurate statement with a new element of guesswork. If you had actually said the above initially, I fail to see how you could possibly know. Unless you have a crystal ball in your possession. It's just as likely that Laurel and Hardy could run the redscouse into the ground, and Everton could revert to being the biggest club in the city. It was the case before, could easily happen again. On balance, since the formation of both clubs Everton have had a far longer period of being the 'biggest.' Even if they aren't at present. I'm no closet Evertonian, but it pisses me right off when I see ill-informed opinions about football from the post Sky generation being offered as fact. Nothing personal.

Ah, but thats not what you said originally. Who's the more succesful side overall? Easy one, that. Everton always in Liverpools shadow though? 'Fraid not. BTW, Everton won the FA Cup in 1995 when Liverpool won nowt, pipped them to the league title in 1985 and 1987. And historically Everton were the far bigger of the two, before Shankley/Paisley. Dig me out the comparitive history when SHA could ever claim similar.

Agree with this, particularly in light of the loss of Highbury and Maine Road. I often wonder why the bigger clubs don't take the approach of their European counterparts and build below ground level. That way, if space is tight around the ground, they could still get an extra couple of thousand in. Real Madrid, Barca and Porto all have grounds set below ground level, there are prob more too. Would be a far better option than the souless identikit bowls that are all the rage nowadays. If the Toffees did this, and maybe bulldozed that stand that houses the away support (Gladwys?) that would give them close to 50,000. That stand might have been acceptable 20 years ago, but cramped viewing, wooden seats and obstructive pillars are no longer on. It means that any new stand wouldn't have to go to higher than the original buildings, so the residents couldn't complain, they'd have extra seats overall + they wouldn't have to move. Job done.

Historically Everton have eclispsed Liverpool on numerous occasions. Unlike the B-lose and us. Care to go on?

The comparison was as I understood it, that Everton are always in Liverpools shadow. Like the urchins down the road and us. History would indicate otherwise. Unless you gloss over that and start from 98/99, of course.

How long have you been following football? Not a dig, a genuine question. If you started in around 1998 sometime then I could perhaps undestand where you are coming from. In my lifetime Everton have won league titles, European trophies and signed high profile players. On numerous occasions. Pretty certain that when they finished above Liverpool, as they did on a number of occasions in the 80's, there was no talk of always being in their shadow. There is absolutely no comparson between SHA and Everton.

You didn't read the article by Keigh Harris, who has advised on several takeovers, including ours? The fact that they require huge expenditure on a stadium, and share the fan base of a "not wealthy city"witha large successful club, makes them unattractive to purchase. Edit here - found the quote - Everton, the other Premier League club which has instructed Harris to seek investment, is, he said openly, not as encouraging a proposition to buyers looking to increase the value of their investments. "There is no progress at all," Harris said. "The demographics of Liverpool as a city are not hugely compelling. It is not a very wealthy city; Everton share the city with another club which arguably has been in the vanguard for the last decade and they both have a stadium to build. So the economics need a lot of looking at." Never really thought about that, but i suppose being in the shadow of one of the worlds biggest clubs really doesn't help. They have a couple of good players a very very good manager decent fan base but i dont like them. And i dont kiss arse because a young girl posts on here. You could argue that getting the gates they do in a 'not wealthy city' and under the shadow of one of the media faves reflects well on them (or badly on us.) Similar sized clubs, no question. But Liverpool is a much smaller city than Brum. We only have a porn merchants rabble from the slums as supposed competition (if you can call a club that gets 17,000 for league games competition). They have the Redshite on their doorstep. Everton would still be a good investment. At least for a RL type investor, in it for the long haul rather than Hicks/ Gillette type charachters looking to maximise a 'franchise' yet know **** all about football. Or rich Arabs who get bored easily.

Some of us appear to have developed Newcastle or Redscouse-esque delusions of grandeur. League of our own? Do me a favour. Everton have finished ahead of us for a good few seasons now, they've achieved something that we haven't done in nailing that hallowed 4th spot and they have a solid squad who have been together for years. We could ask how many of their players would get in our 18, but they could say the same. Laursen, Barry, Young. After that, there's not much in it. There was plenty of wailing and nashing of teeth in the summer from the blue half of Merseyside due to their delay in the transfer market. But in the final analysis, they were able to bring in a number of players, albeit late in the window. Fellini (sp) is an improvement on Carsley and Saha (when fit) is an improvement on Johnson. They've been pretty dire so far this year, and yet they are still not a million miles of us. They'll be up there in May, no question. They might not play total football getting there, but then that hasn't stopped them before. Don't see Citeh being a threat, the Arabs will decide which box office name they want and Hughes will either have to accept or quit. It'll be fun watching the facre unfold mind. Portsmouth look like they're broke and there could be a serious exodus this Jan. Spurzzz will just be Spurzzz. Flattering to deceive, another infamous season of transition. I expected Sunderland to maybe be contenders this year. Keane has brought in a better standard of player recently, and there seemed to be a more solid set-up there than at other clubs. But Keane looks like he is starting to get twitchy and I wouldn't be suprised if we see him out walking the dogs on SSN anytime soon. Everton it is then, as our main rivals for 5th. Almost by default.

You know what you get with Everton. Organised, functional, with the odd flashes of brilliance from Arteta. They'll be there or thereabouts. It's probably better for them if they do stay under the radar. Pundits have us pretty much nailed on for 5th and a good shout for 4th, but that just means we are there to be shot at. Plus, as good as we can be in beating the likes of the Arse, we are more than capable of losing to absolute dross like Newcastle and Boro. Injuries to key players and transfers in Jan will probably be the decisive factor between us and the Toffees as to who finishes higher.

I kind of get your point and I have a degree of sympathy for what you say. But using Beckham/ Manure as an example, what makes them the economic force they are? Is it the dyed-in-the wool Reds fan born within a 5 mile radius of Salford and can trace his MUFC credentials back 4 generations? Or is it the gloryhunter/ bandwagon jumper from Dorset, Ireland or (shamefully) Sutton Coldfield? Old Trafford on a matchday is full of out-of-town support, much of it to the chargrin of local Reds fans who see right through these imposters. But the fact is it's these type of fans that contribute to the financial wellbeing of the club and ensure they can fork out £30 million for Berbatov and pay ridiculous wages to Ronaldo. Even those fans who don't attend matches contribute to the MUFC phenomenon with merchandise purchases et.c. I'm not advocating that we use Manure as a business model. They are an exceptional case, and VP full of Japanese tourists might be just a bridge too far for me. But as a club we are going to see some pretty big changes over the next few years. If the price of success, the price of filling a 50,000+ capacity venue is that we have to put up with more of those type of fans, it's a price worth paying IMO. They're not necessarily the type of fans I'd want to sit next to, or have a pint and discuss the game with (for some reason I get an image of that Arsenal fan in The Fast Show - complete with picnic hamper), but thats a seperate issue.

They the only big clubs then? :winkold: We've always had our share of fair weather fans, probably more than most in fact. I've met Villa fans in London with absolutely no family connections in Brum, but started following us when we were succesful early 80's. I've also met Irish fans who have admitted to previously following Manure, Celtic et.c and started supporting us for no other reason than we had McGrath, Staunton, Houghton and Townsend as the heartbeat of our team. For some it's just a casual interest, for others that was the spark that lead to a lifelong passion. So how they came to be Villa fans is irrelevant. We've always been a big club, capable of drawing out-of-town support. But for us to really push on and have designs to fill a 50,000+ stadium regularly we have to find a way of tapping into this market, converting this 'interest' to bums on seats, be that on a local or national level.

Nice upbeat article, but it's not as if we havent been close to the top of the table since 1935 or some such. We were up as high as third going into November just two years ago, but then fell away badly. So long as we're in an around the top 6 come the end of the year- and Europe doesn't take too much out of us- we'll be in a good position to push on. It's quite obvious that we do still need to strenghthen the squad though. A forward or two in January (with hopefully the Mare going in the opposite direction) plus full back cover should see us right.

A deal of 17 mill including Finnan and I'd say yes. However, it's not neccesarily that straightforward. MON sent a letter to the Redscouse outlining what was required to make the deal happen. They haven't responded. Do we get back to them and say we'll accept any value they have put on the player instead? Thats a strange way for a business to operate. I also have a feeling that Rafa may have got cold feet, and has decided that if it's GB or Keane, then his forward line is the more pressing concern. If thats the case then GB has backed himself into a corner and is well and truly fcuked.