Hughes

Can I just say to Mike M, DDID and the others organising this: Thank you! Thank you for ignoring the typical Villa fan response of "I think we should do something but not this, and I am doing nothing except criticising the ones who are making the effort". Thank you for, undoubtedly, spending a lot of time and resources on this. Thank you for rising above silly, negative remarks on details which do not matter. Thank you for instilling in me the faith once again that we, as Villa fans and one Villa family, might, just might, be able to stand together. I am seriously considering flying over from Norway just to be able to walk OUT THE DOOR ON 74. Just one small thing; please, please keep it up even if the first attempt does not make 10k leave. Repeat it and do the contemplated 3 matches no matter what, 1k may be 3k on the second match and 10k on the third!! Hughes, Villa fan in Norway since 1979.

He found another kind of love, got married and now has a little kid. But he is still very much active, both on VT, meeting up in Oslo for matches and going to Villa Park and away matches - right Michelsen? There are quite a few Norwegians on VT from what I can see, and at least 500 paying members in the Norwegian supporters' club (apparently the largest Foreign Villa supporters' Club apart from China...!) http://www.villans.no/ For matches on TV in Oslo, I believe Villa fans go to different pubs , so rarely a huge group of Villa fans in one place. Last night I think we were 6-7 guys at Tempest in Oslo,

That is one fantastic article.

True story (long post, sorry): some years back I was driving on the West Cost in Norway with my wife and 2 year old kid. While waiting for a ferry I started speaking to an English guy. I asked about his tattoo and it was "Coventry City, son". As it happened I had been to the Ricoh just a few weeks before that so we talked and he was, well, nice enough. He offered to pay the entire fare for us and our car and went away to get it fixed. I asked my wife "should I tell him", and in her almighty wisdom adviced against it. In my almighty stupidness I decided against the advice and told him "you know, I am an Aston Villa fan". In front of my wife and 2 year old he turned completely grey and shouted "Aston Villa??!!! I fu***ing hate Aston Villa!!" Then he stormed off to his car, went in and never spoke to me again. All at a ferry waiting lot on the west coast of Norway... The idiot had already paid the fare for us. How I laughed...

Was Enda on the Wind-up? You sure? About Illitch: In 2006, inspired by a veteran returning to civilian life after losing both of his legs in war, Ilitch founded the Little Caesars Veterans Program to provide honorably discharged veterans with a business opportunity when they transition from service or seek a career change. Ilitch received the Secretary's Award from the U.S. Department of Veterans affairs for this program in 2007; it is the highest honor given to a civilian by the department. Today there are 50 Little Caesars Veteran franchisees who have applied more than $1.5 million in benefits. Maybe a stretch but there could easily be a link here to one certain Mr. Krulak and Randy himself has been heavily involved in US army stuff.

The biggest clue that there is a buyer out there as we speak is pure economics. If a sale is not completed any time soon, the statement from Randy today quite simply means that any prolonged process will turn into a fire sale and Randy will achieve a lower price. That statement is a statement of a desperate seller unless the seller knows he has a deal more or less in place. So, to me he must be confident that he can complete a sale when putting that statement out.

That Thomson guy is a Cambridge graduate. So is Lerner. Anyone who knows if they were there at the same time?

I understand why IC has been suspended, reasonable explenations have been provided. But what has Karsa done to merit suspension? Taking ICs side would surely not be enough?

Thanks, the Arkles it is then. Seems pretty close to the ground!

Any suggestions for pubs near Anfield where the Villa fans will be? I am bringing my 8 year old son. By the way, I am staying in Liverpool at Radisson Blue and the Villa are staying here as well. Only seen KEA so far, though...

Considering VT has got a lot of threads where members are describing anal sex, sex with their relatives, doing illegal drugs and more; what is wrong with this thread? By the way, I'm Norwegian so I am loaded.... :-)

Still ridiculous to suggest that results do matter? FFS, I do not care that much if we loose one or two pre-season matches but look at who we have played and look at the results. It does not fill you with confidence, or what?

I have sent you a PM.

The kind of kit release some would love (Augsburg). It is only in Norwegian but I guess the pictures do not need translation. m.db.no/2013/07/11/sport/fotball/augsburg/kroppsmaling/draktlansering/28148017/ (NSFW)

Was just about to say this. Absolutely disgraceful stuff - this is the lowest I've ever felt as a Villa fan. Chelsea and Bradford were nothing compared to this. LAMBERT OUT! jeeez, not at all what I tried to say and you know it. Thanks for contributing in a mature way.

If we then go on losing to Bradford over a two leg tie I think I will. It is not about this single result today, it's about this Club not having a winning mentality, as shown over many years. Creating an attitude where not winning is not acceptable is the only way to change that, and that as to start in pre-season. That should make any Villa fan cry IMO. care to elaborate? So we don't have a winning in mentality? Where were you the last few months of the season when we beat every team around us that we needed to then? QPR, Reading, Stoke, Sunderland, Norwich and West Ham to ensure survival. Including late winners at Stoke and Norwich. The majority of fans are very positive about the villa at the minute and can see the improvement in the team since the turn of the year. Don't think you've thought this through at all. Believe it or not, I am actually more optimistic before this season than for many years (at least until the CB TR came up). Maybe I have not thought this through but I at least thought that this was a discussion board where opinions and views did not have to be on a PhD level every time. Ah well, I will leave it at that.

we wll sell Benteke for X, I see no way back now. We will re-invest parts of that X in two or three players, of which one or two may work and one dont. And that will be one of two reasons why we cannot compete as a Club - the first reason being that we have not got the financial muscle to compete and because of that our only hope is get younger players, hope they succeed and to keep our best players and develop a team over time. But as history during the last years have shown, we are not able to do that and Benteke is just another example.

If we then go on losing to Bradford over a two leg tie I think I will. It is not about this single result today, it's about this Club not having a winning mentality, as shown over many years. Creating an attitude where not winning is not acceptable is the only way to change that, and that as to start in pre-season. That should make any Villa fan cry IMO. care to elaborate?

Mods; if better placed elsewhere, please feel free to remove, merge or whatever. I see lots of VT'ers proclaiming that pre-season results are not important and that pre-season is "all about fitness". Obviously, I agree that it is important, but it is not everything. In my opinion, results do matter - quite simply because it could say quite a bit about a winning mentality. To me, it does not matter whether we are pre-season, off-season or playing a PL match, the ultimate goal of every game should be to win. Villa have for years, again in my opinion, been troubled by an attitude that, "it does not really matter", "at least we got a good run out and improved our fitness", we got close" etc. This applies not only to pre-season but in general. We as fans and the Club as such have in my view become used to being mediocre. Where is the winning mentality? We hardly see ManU or Chelsea loosing, or even drawing, many pre-season games, do we? (do not bother finding examples of where they have lost - you know what I mean). Why? Well, I am sure it is partly because they have for years have a mentality where mediocrity is not accepted. You play to win, that's it. Now, I am not predicting the end of the world because we fail to beat a 5th Level German team. No reason to panic based on one result, and no reason to describe me as a drama queen etc. Today was not just a one-off result - we are too often also in competitive matches losing or drawing where we really should have won. Again; the mentality and approach have been not good enough on too many instances. How many times have we been knocked out of "easy" European games (Rapid Wien is not a very good team, trust me). Bradford anyone? Doncaster? Losing at home in PL to bottom of the League teams? it has been going on for years. In order to change this, it has to start in pre-season, really instilling a winning mentality and an attitude that only winning is good enough. Thus, I do not buy into this "results do not matter stuff". They do, and to us they should matter more than to others because we are behind a lot of teams with respect to having the right mentality. And, as for today's game; Lederhosen SV or whatever should be a team which we should comfortably beat, even if all Villa players were called off the beach with one day's notice. It's 5th Level FFS, 1-1 is simply not good enough, pre-season or not. And, they are in pre-season too. We need to be much more focused on results.

Thanks, good post. However: If we voted against because it makes it harder to sell the club, does that mean Randy is selling? Would be interesting if true. From replies it looks like the minor clubs voted for in order to shut Championship clubs out, whereas the top/biggest clubs voted for because they want to reinforce their dominance. Fine, but where does that leave us? Leaving the possibility that Randy wants to sell aside, does our vote not mean one out of three: 1) Randy was looking to make big investments into Villa out of his own money, and the new rules will prevent that. Does not really seem likely, but who knows. 2) Villa voted against because the rules do not go far enough, as you say; there would be alternatives that would perhaps be more effective and more radical. 3) The rules will hit us as we will find ourselves in violation (?) and face the risk of sanctions. I did not start this thread to discuss whether the new rules are good or bad as such, but to discuss why Villa voted against. There surely must have been thorough assessments by Randy and the board before the vote was cast and that reasoning would be, I believe, extremely interesting to have knowledge of as it must say quite a bit about how Randy is looking at the future. So, why?

Maybe because voting against it is the right thing to do. Ok, why?

Understood; good for ManU. But is it therefore bad for Villa? Being realistic, we are not challengig ManU anyway and we should (and have historically not been anything more) be able to challenge for a top 6 place. In my mind these rules may, over time, make that possible. ManU is not our yardstick so I do not care that much about them.

This. So have Villa voted against because the rules do not go far enough or because Randy does not want FFP rules at all? We have shown that we cannot compete under the current (non) rules so I would have thought that this was a step in the right direction. Maybe small and flawed step, but still better than status quo.

The ManU's of this world have used artificial money to get where they are today, just because others are using a different revenue stream (richer owners play things, rather than a nice bank manager and some financial slights of hand) they want to shut the door. West Ham have an artificial revenue stream paid for at tax payers expense, they will slip under the radar as will a few chosen others. Does anyone really believe that if the Glaziers went through a financial melt down these rules would still stand once they have destroyed Man U legit revenue streams? I would rather ask the question why the likes of Chelsea, Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal bla bla have voted for this new system. Yes, I understand why it is beneficial to ManU. But Swansea voted for, Reading and Norwich as well.