Relegation

[andym]

the problem is we have thrown away leads against southampton and norwich who are poor teams. we also were leading against newcastle but drew. we were coasting 2-0 against swindon with 15 minutes to go. we let them get it back to 2-2 before eventually getting the last minute win.

the general performance against united was encouraging, but we have gone through this already earlier in the season. i think many of us felt the games against newcastle and swansea were a turning point, lambert had finally got the team playing how he wanted etc. but we have continued to be inconsistent, and continue to hover just above the relegation zone.

hopefully we can start to get some real consistency performance wise, and most importantly start picking up points with more regularity.

[Stevo985]

I can't see how it is different though. We could be winning against one of the lower teams and boom, they flick a switch and all of the sudden we are behind with 3 minutes to go. Most teams in this league have world class players too - some may not be 'world' class but they are still good enough to be paid 20k a week! Why couldn't they turn it around against us?

It shouldn't have happened yesterday, and it has really peed me off. It's even more annoying people saying we were brilliant because we were not, we played well for 50 minutes and then threw it all away. That is NOT a good performance!

You can't see the difference?

This is totally bizarre. Are you saying Villa would lose to my Sunday League team if they were 2-0 up with half an hour to play?

Last week we were 1-0 up against Sunderland and didn't throw it away. What's the difference there?

[VillaGoMarching]

Genuinely disappointed by the response of a few on the forum, there seems to be some who think that despite us having no chance before kick, that we should have held out for a win after going two nil up, and that somehow the fault lays at the feet of PL, The guy is less than 6 months into the job and people are already writing him off, i've seen genuine signs of promise at times this season, apart from the more adventurous style of play. How can you not be happy to see us score a goal like that 2nd one yesterday?

It will take time for Lambert to get it together but for some fans, they don't have that time and i simply don't understand it.

[Tayls]

You can't see the difference?

This is totally bizarre. Are you saying Villa would lose to my Sunday League team if they were 2-0 up with half an hour to play?

Last week we were 1-0 up against Sunderland and didn't throw it away. What's the difference there?

Hmm, I'm not sure I understand what you are saying.... I did say in my last post, that we COULD be 2-0 up, and then the opposition flick a switch and then all of the sudden, they are in front. Clearly I'm not referring to a Sunday league team, though we did almost throw it away against Swindon. Didn't we?

I am more than happy for Lambert to remain our manager, EVEN IF we are relegated. we need some consistency here and I do like what he is trying to do.

[Stevo985]

Hmm, I'm not sure I understand what you are saying.... I did say in my last post, that we COULD be 2-0 up, and then the opposition flick a switch and then all of the sudden, they are in front. Clearly I'm not referring to a Sunday league team, though we did almost throw it away against Swindon. Didn't we?

I am more than happy for Lambert to remain our manager, EVEN IF we are relegated. we need some consistency here and I do like what he is trying to do.

My point is you seem to think that because we lost a 2-0 lead to United, we'd lose it to anyone. There seems to be no acknowledgement that it might have happened because united are a very very good team.

It won't happen against everyone. if we play like we did yesterday we'd beat a lot of the teams around us.

[terrytini]

Until we deliver performance like last night and wins against teams in our "mini league" I will remain worried. 9 points from 11 games is shocking.

Is it ? Is it really ? Or are one or two people guilty of grossly over -reacting ?

For example, had we beaten Spurs instead of vice versa we would be just 2 - TWO - points behind a Team regarded as challenging for the Top 4. A Team incidentally who have been built for 3 years compared to our 3 months.

A little sense of perspective would go a long way with some.

[Tayls]

My point is you seem to think that because we lost a 2-0 lead to United, we'd lose it to anyone. There seems to be no acknowledgement that it might have happened because united are a very very good team.

It won't happen against everyone. if we play like we did yesterday we'd beat a lot of the teams around us.

I just want to clarify what it is I am upset with here. Perhaps what I said initially could have been a little ambiguous. It would then be cool if you could tell me your thoughts on the matter again.

I am upset with the fact that we have thrown away a wining position, at home and also the fact that people seem to think it was an excellent performance even though for the final 40 mins we conceded 3 goals and ultimately lost the game. Whether that was against Man U or not, that is not something we should be doing when we are desperate for points... Would you agree?

Yes Man U are a very good side, obviously, but for us to play well for 50 minutes and then collapse, overall, that is not a good thing in this league. It's terrible in fact.

[Mantis]

We weren't even that bad after 90 minutes, we just made some silly errors against a team with a world class attack.

[Stevo985]

Of course it's not a good thing. But you suggested that it would have happened regardless of who we were playing.

And in the match reactions thread you failed to take any positives from the game.

My point is that obviously losing a 2 goal lead is a bad thing. But the performance, despite that, was encouraging. If we play like that all season we'll beat a lot of teams. There aren't many teams in the league who would have beaten us, playing like that, from 2 goals down. It just so happens that United always do it against us.

[Tayls]

Is it ? Is it really ? Or are one or two people guilty of grossly over -reacting ?

For example, had we beaten Spurs instead of vice versa we would be just 2 - TWO - points behind a Team regarded as challenging for the Top 4. A Team incidentally who have been built for 3 years compared to our 3 months.

A little sense of perspective would go a long way with some.

Look at West Brom who are on 20 points and they have a new manager as well. 9 points from 11 is dreadful.... But I still like what Lambert is doing..

[Jarpie]

Look at West Brom who are on 20 points and they have a new manager as well. 9 points from 11 is dreadful.... But I still like what Lambert is doing..

We have half of the starting XI completely new and young players, third manager in three years and again new playing style third time in three years.

[Tayls]

We have half of the starting XI completely new and young players, third manager in three years and again new playing style third time in three years.

I know that, but... Straight out... Is 9 points from a possible 33 awful?

[Mantis]

Look at West Brom who are on 20 points and they have a new manager as well. 9 points from 11 is dreadful.... But I still like what Lambert is doing..

They've had continuity though. They may have a new manager but pretty much everything else has stayed the same.

[Tayls]

I know, but... They have started to play some very good stuff ... Last season they were average, mid table... Now, they are top 5! With a new manager.

But anyway, we COULD be 9 from 39 in a few weeks.... Then we have, Reading? ....wow gonna quite a game.

[Jarpie]

And don't forget our very chaotic last two seasons and the confidence of our players all-time-low. WBA's form can turn down quickly, just look at Hull from couple seasons back.

[Mantis]

I know, but... They have started to play some very good stuff ... Last season they were average, mid table... Now, they are top 5! With a new manager.

But anyway, we COULD be 9 from 39 in a few weeks.... Then we have, Reading? ....wow gonna quite a game.

They won't be top 5 come the end of the season. They'll probably finish better off than last season but not that better off. Just shows the importance of continuity.

[Morpheus]

Because Morpheus is in this mindset of seeing everything negatively.

If something good happens, he will automatically, not even consciously, find a way to explain it that is negative.

Just like some of us will do the opposite. Something bad will happen and we'll excuse it because we might be overly positive.

Morpheus is completely entitled to his point of view, even though it is, imo, completely bat shit insane. But you'll drive yourself crazy if you try and argue him out of it, because it isn't going to happen. He's nailed his colours to the mast and it's unlikely to change.

Thanks 'Stevo985' for the psychological profile. I am certainly not in permanent negativity. For a hundred quid my psychologist has just told me so. Also please read my predictions in the Man U match thread before the game. I was one of the very few who stated that we had a chance of getting something against Man U. Not exactly permanent negativity.

'Completely bat shit insane' might however be closer to the truth because i actually believe what i state in my posts and i am certainly not trolling or posting for effect. I my team and everything that is Aston Villa. I cried when we won the European Cup, yep really did!

The thing is i'm so **** frustrated at the moment. I desperately want us to do well and for sixty minutes yesterday we all were in dream land but ultimately we failed again as we have been failing for many years now. Sometimes so close, almost being able to grasp the sun but always just out of reach with our hands melting as we get too close to the success we all crave.

I actually admire you and the rest of those posters on VT, yep even Mantis, who painstakingly see the positives in everything Villa at the moment while we still struggle. I guess thats what makes a true fan. Through thick and thin forever Villa and all that, but i can't do it anymore. I can't be mainly positive when some of the negatives are the truth about our club at the moment.

Another poster accused me of having no objectivity. We'll he might very well be right but i have found it hard to be objective when i have disagreed with the appointment of Lambert to the signings he has made when we needed stability. Yes i was probably wrong about Benteke who is looking like a smashing player at the moment but then again i wasn't the only poster on VT who thought he was a duff signing.

The point i have made about Lambert 'stumbling' onto his best team rather than actually planning it i believe to be 100% correct. Would he have played Westwood and Bannan together if, in particular, KEA had been fit?

I actually remember CI being slated in the very same way i have been for sometimes being brutal with the truth rather than conforming to general opinion and thats what it is, an opinion. Yes i probably should be more objective but in the same way so should those who stamp their keys in anger at the very thought of a Villa fan being able to criticize his own club in a direct way. You may not like it, but it's what a forum is for and although i did use the ignore button for just one poster which has now been erased, i think it's too easy to use rather than trying to listen to what the poster is actually getting at.

If that makes me 'bat shit insane' then so be it.

[Mantis]

Most of us here don't actually see "everything" do with Villa as positive, we just focus more on the positive elements than on the negative ones.

[Morpheus]

Then we're both guilty of a lack of objectivity.

[Stevo985]

Thanks 'Stevo985' for the psychological profile. I am certainly not in permanent negativity. For a hundred quid my psychologist has just told me so. Also please read my predictions in the Man U match thread before the game. I was one of the very few who stated that we had a chance of getting something against Man U. Not exactly permanent negativity.

'Completely bat shit insane' might however be closer to the truth because i actually believe what i state in my posts and i am certainly not trolling or posting for effect.

Never said you were

I my team and everything that is Aston Villa. I cried when we won the European Cup, yep really did!

The thing is i'm so **** frustrated at the moment. I desperately want us to do well and for sixty minutes yesterday we all were in dream land but ultimately we failed again as we have been failing for many years now. Sometimes so close, almost being able to grasp the sun but always just out of reach with our hands melting as we get too close to the success we all crave.

I actually admire you and the rest of those posters on VT, yep even Mantis, who painstakingly see the positives in everything Villa at the moment while we still struggle. I guess thats what makes a true fan. Through thick and thin forever Villa and all that, but i can't do it anymore. I can't be mainly positive when some of the negatives are the truth about our club at the moment.

I absolutely don't see everything positively. I'm one of those who tends to have their opinion drowned out. I like to think i have a fairly balanced view, I am fairly positive right now but I certainly see a lot of negatives, but on here that doesn't seem to get much attention. So be it.

Another poster accused me of having no objectivity. We'll he might very well be right but i have found it hard to be objective when i have disagreed with the appointment of Lambert to the signings he has made when we needed stability. Yes i was probably wrong about Benteke who is looking like a smashing player at the moment but then again i wasn't the only poster on VT who thought he was a duff signing.

The point i have made about Lambert 'stumbling' onto his best team rather than actually planning it i believe to be 100% correct. Would he have played Westwood and Bannan together if, in particular, KEA had been fit?

I actually remember CI being slated in the very same way i have been for sometimes being brutal with the truth rather than conforming to general opinion and thats what it is, an opinion. Yes i probably should be more objective but in the same way so should those who stamp their keys in anger at the very thought of a Villa fan being able to criticize his own club in a direct way. You may not like it, but it's what a forum is for and although i did use the ignore button for just one poster which has now been erased, i think it's too easy to use rather than trying to listen to what the poster is actually getting at.

If that makes me 'bat shit insane' then so be it.

Don't really care about the rest of the post, this is nothing to do with what I posted.

CI is slated for being a troll. He posts stuff to get a reaction, not because he believes it.

You'll notice I explicitly said you're entitled to your opinion, and the reason I haven't added you to my ignore list is because you don't post for a reaction (although, on a personal note, I've noticed a lot more point scoring posts creeping up from you lately, that's not endearing). You're just incredibly negative, which again, is your prerogative. But yes seeing as we're on the subject, I do think it's insane how anythign positive that happens is an accident in your opinion, and anythign negative is all Lambert's fault. But that's MY opinion.

I was merely trying to explain why you see things in a negative light, and why Mantis shouldn't waste his breath trying to change your opinion. I wasn't tyring to say that you should change your opinion or that you're not entitled to it.