Could Noah's Ark hold all the animals?

[JulieB]

Awake 1998 discussing all this...

What Happened When Hitler Came to Power?

On January 30, 1933, Adolf Hitler was appointed Germany’s new chancellor. In the beginning, the Hitler government worked to conceal its violent and extremist nature. Hence, the Witnesses, along with millions of other Germans in early 1933, viewed the National Socialist Party as the legitimate ruling authority of the time. The Witnesses hoped that the National Socialist (Nazi) government would realize that this peaceable, law-abiding Christian group posed no subversive threat to the State. This was no offer to compromise Bible principles. As has been the case in other lands, the Witnesses wanted to inform the government of the true nonpolitical nature of their religion.

It quickly became apparent that Jehovah’s Witnesses were to be among the first targets of brutal Nazi suppression. The Witnesses were again branded as accomplices in an alleged Bolshevik-Jewish conspiracy. A campaign of persecution began.

Why would such a small religious community attract the fury of the new regime? Historian Brian Dunn identifies three fundamental reasons: (1) the international scope of the Witnesses, (2) their opposition to racism, and (3) their position of neutrality toward the State. Because of their Scriptural views, the German Witnesses refused to give the Hitler salute, to support the National Socialist Party, or later on to participate in military activities.—Exodus 20:4, 5; Isaiah 2:4; John 17:16.

As a result, the Witnesses endured threats, interrogations, house searches, and other harassment by the police and SA (Hitler’s Sturmabteilung, storm troopers, or Brownshirts). On April 24, 1933, officials seized and shut down the Watch Tower office in Magdeburg, Germany. After a thorough search yielded no incriminating evidence, and under pressure from the U.S. State Department, the police returned the property. By May 1933, though, the Witnesses were banned in several German states.

Witnesses Take Courageous Action

During this early period, Hitler carefully cultivated his public image as a champion of Christianity. He proclaimed his commitment to religious freedom, promising to treat Christian denominations “with objective justice.” In order to enhance his image, the new chancellor made appearances in churches. This was a time when many people in countries that later would be at war with Germany were expressing admiration for Hitler’s achievements.

Concerned about the rising tensions in Germany, Joseph F. Rutherford, then president of the Watch Tower Society, together with the Germany branch office manager, Paul Balzereit, decided to mount a campaign to inform Chancellor Hitler, government officials, and the public that Jehovah’s Witnesses posed no threat to the German people and the State. Rutherford evidently believed that Hitler was unaware of the attacks against Jehovah’s Witnesses or that he had been misinformed by religious elements regarding the Witnesses.

Therefore, the Magdeburg office arranged a convention to make use of the German citizens’ right of petition. On short notice, Jehovah’s Witnesses from all over Germany were invited to the Wilmersdorfer Tennishallen in Berlin on June 25, 1933. About 5,000 delegates were expected. Despite the hostile atmosphere, more than 7,000 courageously attended. The delegates adopted a resolution entitled “Declaration of Facts.” This document protested the restrictions that had been put on the work of the Witnesses. It made a clear statement of their position and denied charges of seditious links with political causes of any sort. It stated:

“We are wrongfully charged before the ruling powers of this government . . . We do respectfully ask the rulers of the nation and the people to give a fair and impartial consideration to the statement of facts here made.”

“We have no fight with any persons or religious teachers, but we must call attention to the fact that it is generally those who claim to represent God and Christ Jesus who are in fact our persecutors and who misrepresent us before the governments.”

Convention of Courage or Compromise?

Some now hold that the 1933 Berlin convention and the “Declaration of Facts” were attempts on the part of prominent Witnesses to show support for the Nazi government and its hatred of the Jews. But their assertions are not true. They are based on misinformation and on misinterpretation of the facts.

For instance, critics claim that the Witnesses decorated the Wilmersdorfer Tennishallen with swastika flags. Photographs of the 1933 convention clearly show that they displayed no swastikas in the hall. Eyewitnesses confirm that there were no flags inside.

It is possible, however, that there were flags on the building’s exterior. A Nazi combat troop had used the hall on June 21, the Wednesday prior to the convention. Then just the day before the convention, crowds of young people along with units of the SS (Schutzstaffel, originally Hitler’s Blackshirt bodyguards), SA, and others celebrated the summer solstice nearby. So Witnesses arriving at the Sunday convention might have been greeted with the sight of a building decked with swastika flags.

Had there been swastika flags decorating the hall’s exterior, corridors, or even its interior, the Witnesses would have left them alone. Even today, when Jehovah’s Witnesses rent public facilities for meetings and conventions, they do not remove national symbols. But there is no evidence that the Witnesses themselves hung any flags or that they saluted them.

Critics further state that the Witnesses opened the convention with the German national anthem. Actually, the convention began with “Zion’s Glorious Hope,” Song 64 in the Witnesses’ religious songbook. The words of this song were set to music composed by Joseph Haydn in 1797. Song 64 had been in the Bible Students’ songbook since at least 1905. In 1922 the German government adopted Haydn’s melody with words by Hoffmann von Fallersleben as their national anthem. Nevertheless, the Bible Students in Germany still sang their Song 64 occasionally, as did Bible Students in other countries.

The singing of a song about Zion could hardly be construed as an effort to placate the Nazis. Under pressure from anti-Semitic Nazis, other churches removed Hebrew terms such as “Judah,” “Jehovah,” and “Zion” from their hymnals and liturgies. Jehovah’s Witnesses did not. The convention organizers, then, certainly did not expect to win favor with the government by singing a song extolling Zion. Possibly, some delegates may have been reluctant to sing “Zion’s Glorious Hope,” since the melody of this composition by Haydn was the same as that of the national anthem.

A Statement of Intent

With the government in transition and the country in turmoil, the Witnesses wanted to make a clear statement of their position. By means of the “Declaration,” the Witnesses strongly denied accusations of financial involvement or political ties with Jews. Thus, the document stated:

“It is falsely charged by our enemies that we have received financial support for our work from the Jews. Nothing is farther from the truth. Up to this hour there never has been the slightest bit of money contributed to our work by Jews.”

Having mentioned money, the “Declaration” went on to denounce unfair practices of big business. It said: “It has been the commercial Jews of the British-American empire that have built up and carried on Big Business as a means of exploiting and oppressing the peoples of many nations.”

This statement clearly did not refer to the Jewish people in general, and it is regrettable if it has been misunderstood and has given cause for any offense. Some have claimed that Jehovah’s Witnesses shared the hostility toward the Jews that was commonly taught in the German churches at the time. This is absolutely untrue. By their literature and conduct during the Nazi era, the Witnesses rejected anti-Semitic views and condemned the Nazi mistreatment of the Jews. Certainly, their kindness toward Jews who shared their lot in the concentration camps provides a resounding rebuttal to this false accusation.

The “Declaration” defined the Witnesses’ work as religious in character, stating: “Our organization is not political in any sense. We only insist on teaching the Word of Jehovah God to the people.”

The “Declaration” also reminded the government of its own promises. The Witnesses upheld certain high ideals, and these happened to be publicly espoused also by the German government. Among these were family values and religious freedom.

In this regard, the “Declaration” added: “A careful examination of our books and literature will disclose the fact that the very high ideals held and promulgated by the present national government are set forth in and endorsed and strongly emphasized in our publications, and show that Jehovah God will see to it that these high ideals in due time will be attained by all persons who love righteousness.”

Thus, the Witnesses never expressed support for the Nazi Party. Moreover, in the exercise of religious freedom, they did not intend to stop their public preaching.—Matthew 24:14; 28:19, 20.

According to the account in the 1974 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses, some German Witnesses were disappointed that the language of the “Declaration” was not more explicit in tone. Had the branch office manager, Paul Balzereit, weakened the text of the document? No, for a comparison of the German and the English texts shows that this is not the case. Evidently, an impression to the contrary was based on the subjective observations of some who were not directly involved in the preparation of the “Declaration.” Their conclusions may also have been influenced by the fact that Balzereit renounced his faith only two years later.

It is now known that a ban on Jehovah’s Witnesses in Germany had been issued on Saturday, June 24, 1933, just the day before the Berlin convention. The convention organizers and the police learned of this ban a few days later. In view of the climate of tension and the evident hostility of Nazi officials, it is remarkable that the convention was held at all. It is no exaggeration to say that 7,000 Witnesses courageously put their liberty at risk by attending the gathering.

Following the convention, the Witnesses distributed 2.1 million copies of the “Declaration.” Some Witnesses were arrested immediately and sent to labor camps. Thus, the Nazi government fully revealed its oppressive, violent nature and soon launched an all-out attack on this small group of Christians.

Wrote Professor Christine King: “Brute force could not suppress the Witnesses, the Nazis were to learn.” It was as the “Declaration” stated: “The power of Jehovah God is supreme and there is no power that can successfully resist him.”

[Footnote]

Space does not allow us to supply full documentation for this historical account. However, a list of complete references is available upon request from the publishers. You may also find it enlightening to view the videocassette documentary entitled Jehovah’s Witnesses Stand Firm Against Nazi Assault

It's clear that after that declaration was delivered which was also read out in the US and Germany all over the world the German's didn't consider it to showing support for the Nazis because they immediately began arresting the JWs and throwing them into camps.

You said that Rutherford wrote a letter to Hitler sympathising with him. Where is that?

[JulieB]

So that's it then ...all your evidence that Jehovah's Witnesses were Nazi sympathisers??!!

You said that JR had personally written a letter to Hitler!!

That declaration mentions the Jews, as it does Americans and Irish Catholics and in the same sentence "We have no fight with"

The Nazis must have been impressed because as soon as that document was delivered they started arresting JWs.

[JulieB]

The only letter JR sent to Hitler was shown as a photograph in the Awake 7th August 1998.

By special messenger, on February 9, 1934, Joseph F. Rutherford, who was at the forefront of the work at that time, sent Hitler a letter of protest in response to Nazi intolerance. (Picture 2) On October 7, 1934, Rutherford’s letter was followed by some 20,000 letters and telegrams of protest sent to Hitler by Jehovah’s Witnesses in 50 countries, including Germany.

No cover up neither Risso I note... when mistakes or misjudgements have happened people should own up and apologise if necessary.

Jesus never said his followers would be perfect... far from it.. what he said was "By their fruits you would recognise them, for the love they showed"

Did Jehovah's Witnesses show anything else but love and compassion for their fellow inmates in the concentration camps including Jews?

Certainly because I met one a certain Max Liebster.. who went into the camps as a Jewish inmate chained to a Jehovah's Witness...came out a convert and married Simone whose remarkable life story is told in the book Facing the Lion. She was taken off her parents as a little girl for refusing to Heil Hitler.

Because of their uncompromising stand against Hitler and Nazism, Jehovah’s Witnesses were persecuted and sent by the thousands to the concentration camps. Their strong faith and integrity in the face of inhuman brutality is commented on by Anna Pawełczyńska, Polish sociologist and survivor of the infamous Auschwitz death camp. Writing in her book Values and Violence in Auschwitz, she stated that Jehovah’s Witnesses were “a solid ideological force and they won their battle against Nazism.” She called them an “island of unflagging resistance existing in the bosom of a terrorized nation.” She added: “In that same undismayed spirit they functioned in the camp at Auschwitz. They managed to win the respect of their fellow-prisoners . . . , of prisoner-functionaries, and even of the SS officers. Everyone knew that no Jehovah’s Witness would perform a command contrary to his religious belief and convictions.” She concluded: “Jehovah’s Witnesses waged passive resistance for their belief, which opposed all war and violence.

”

the German historian Gabriele Yonan, who wrote: “Without the example of this steadfast Christian group under the National Socialist dictatorship, we would—after Auschwitz and the Holocaust—have to doubt whether it was possible at all to fulfill the Christian teachings of Jesus.”

[Kiwivillan]

God creates was the 1st move.

Evil destroys was the 2nd move.

God combats the destruction of his creation with Jesus 3rd move.

Evil ?

Wait what? When did God create Evil?

I thought you said you had read and "understood" the bible?

You've used this whole thread to demonstrate your amazing knowledge of the Bible so tell me, if God created everything where in the Bible does it say he created Evil?

[Brumerican]

Peta Todd has quit the glamour game.....try and tell me there is a God !

[JulieB]

You've used this whole thread to demonstrate your amazing knowledge of the Bible so tell me, if God created everything where in the Bible does it say he created Evil?

God didn't create evil..he just created beings with free will... not robots.

Evil came into existence when a son of God an angel made himself an opposer, slanderer of God a Satan by turning Adam and Eve against their Creator and questioned his authority. That left a question...could mankind rule himself without God? Enough time therefore had to be allowed for mankind to be let loose governing himself exactly the way he wanted, without redress to God. That is why we have evil in the world.

[steaknchips]

God creates was the 1st move.

Evil destroys was the 2nd move.

God combats the destruction of his creation with Jesus 3rd move.

Evil ?

Wait what? When did God create Evil?

I thought you said you had read and "understood" the bible?

You've used this whole thread to demonstrate your amazing knowledge of the Bible so tell me, if God created everything where in the Bible does it say he created Evil?

You have answered this in your question..

God did indeed create everything..Which includes Angel Lucifer..Who did rebel before God created Adam and Eve.

Mark 4. These are the ones who are beside the road where the word is sown; and when they hear, immediately Satan comes and takes away the word which has been sown in them.

Lucifer, Satan, Beelzubul, the Evil one...Is the opposition to God, he is said to be the most powerful of the angels and believed to have taken up to 1/3 of them. He is out to destroy God's work.

[legov]

God creates was the 1st move.

Evil destroys was the 2nd move.

God combats the destruction of his creation with Jesus 3rd move.

Evil ?

Wait what? When did God create Evil?

I thought you said you had read and "understood" the bible?

You've used this whole thread to demonstrate your amazing knowledge of the Bible so tell me, if God created everything where in the Bible does it say he created Evil?

Yeah it's not like he was the one who created the flawed beings in the first place. Some perfect creation.

[steaknchips]

Rev 20 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

-------

My question;

Is the false prophet Mohammed? Islam is the fastest moving religion on the planet and teaches to go against Jesus, yet respect the past scriptures..

Why would someone start a religion that goes against Jesus? Mankind's ONLY way of salvation?

[legov]

[NowDoINotLikeThat]

Rev 20 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

-------

My question;

Is the false prophet Mohammed? Islam is the fastest moving religion on the planet and teaches to go against Jesus, yet respect the past scriptures..

Why would someone start a religion that goes against Jesus? Mankind's ONLY way of salvation?

You see this is the type of talk now that does cause some problems....

[Kiwivillan]

God creates was the 1st move.

Evil destroys was the 2nd move.

God combats the destruction of his creation with Jesus 3rd move.

Evil ?

Wait what? When did God create Evil?

I thought you said you had read and "understood" the bible?

You've used this whole thread to demonstrate your amazing knowledge of the Bible so tell me, if God created everything where in the Bible does it say he created Evil?

You have answered this in your question..

God did indeed create everything..Which includes Angel Lucifer..Who did rebel before God created Adam and Eve.

Mark 4. These are the ones who are beside the road where the word is sown; and when they hear, immediately Satan comes and takes away the word which has been sown in them.

Lucifer, Satan, Beelzubul, the Evil one...Is the opposition to God, he is said to be the most powerful of the angels and believed to have taken up to 1/3 of them. He is out to destroy God's work.

I'm confused. Clearly I haven't read and understood the bible.

Where in the story of creation i.e. Genesis does it say God created Lucifer?

[JulieB]

false prophet

Why would a false prophet be any other religious entity that didn't claim to worship God and his son Jesus. A false prophet would be an entity of Christendom that mimicked Jesus' teachings.

The False Prophet is the sum of all the so called Christian faiths that have falsely claimed to be followers of Jesus.

It can't be referring to Islam because Muslims do not claim to be followers of Jesus.

As Jesus alludes to in (Matthew 7:22-23) . . ."Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness"

[Risso]

You said that JR had personally written a letter to Hitler!!

And he did! In 1933! Go and look it up! Then pretend that it doesn't mean what it says!

Seriously Julie, I don't know what more you have to read to convince you that the sect you follow are nothing but mentally unstable lunatics.

In 1940, your leader wrote a booklet predicting that Nazis and Catholics would invade Switzerland, smash the British Empire, win the war and take over most of the world, shortly after which Armageddon would begin. Well of course they didn't do any of that, and 70 years later we're still waiting for the end of days.

Can't you see that what you follow is absolutely, completely and utterly deranged? Not a single word of what they say is true! It's a cult that tells lies, then when they get found out, they use more lies to cover their tracks. Get out while you still have a slim hold on reality and enjoy the rest of your life. There seem to be several websites out there to help with this, I suggest looking at one asap.

[JulieB]

Where in the story of creation i.e. Genesis does it say God created Lucifer?

The Bible doesn't say God created Lucifer.. he created an angel that was perfect but had free will. This angel turned himself into

Satan or the Devil by opposing and slandering God.

Lucifer actually translates as light bearer or shining one and the scripture at (Isaiah 14:12) . . ."O how you have fallen from heaven, you shining one, son of the dawn! How you have been cut down to the earth, you who were disabling the nations!" relates that Satan was a fallen angel who turned himself into God's enemy - both he and his invisible organisation who are misleading the nations.

[steaknchips]

It says he created Angels...Lucifer was an angel.

Psalm 104.Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:

[legov]

[CrackpotForeigner]

Steak n Chips, I'm with you 110%.

It's obvious that, unlike most posters on here, you know your Bible.

Since the Bible is the word of God, anyone who isn't taking your side in this argument simply hasn't read and understood the word of God as brilliantly as you have.

Never mind, I have no doubt you will have the last laugh. It says in the Bible that true believers like yourself get to enter the kingdom of Heaven after they die. Heaven is really brilliant, you get to do whatever you want any time, stay up late, eat whatever snack food you want any time, have friends over, play the harp, and probably have sex with anyone you like any time.

The nonbelievers on this thread, on the other hand, will have to spend eternity standing around on molten lava being prodded by imps with sharp spiky tridents.

So don't worry about looking like a deluded fool with possible reasoning issues, you're going to be the one who has the last laugh over these nonbelieving instruments of Satan.

[bickster]

If all humans descended from Adam and Eve, how come small heath alliance aren't the biggest club in the world?

[steaknchips]

false prophet

Why would a false prophet be any other religious entity that didn't claim to worship God and his son Jesus. A false prophet would be an entity of Christendom that mimicked Jesus' teachings.

The False Prophet is the sum of all the so called Christian faiths that have falsely claimed to be followers of Jesus.

It can't be referring to Islam because Muslims do not claim to be followers of Jesus.

As Jesus alludes to in (Matthew 7:22-23) . . ."Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness"

This scripture makes a beeline for a singular "false Prophet"...I know it says in the bible beware of false prophets...But it just make a point of this one as in a powerful/singular, he is mentioned in the same breath as Satan. Islam is taught to not believe Jesus died for our sins..Yet Jesus gave his life for our sins to save us..The only way to salvation is through belief in Jesus..

Muslims follow the same God as Christians and Jews.

The Kuran states; the god of Islam is the God of Christians and Jews