Could Noah's Ark hold all the animals?

[Kiwivillan]

[Risso]

In fairness to JulieB

Risso mentioned Jehovahs Witness's not fighting against Nazis.

I think its only right whatever you think of JW's that its pointed out they were persecuted and killed in Nazi Germany like many groups . They were vocal critics of Nazi party very early on.

Unlike the catholic church...

But yes this offtopic somehwat

Actually, a quick Google shows that this standing up to Hitler is more lies and misinformation put about by this detestable cult.

[Sie]

So what point are you making Julie?

I was answering a direct assault by Risso... as I said to Chindie... read back and you will see.

Jehovah's Witnesses knew that Germany would lose WW2 the moment the the war started against the Anglo- American axis - from their

studies of the Book of Daniel.

Every single person on the planet not allied with Germany knew the Nazi's would lose WW2 else they wouldn't have fought back, they'd have given up. Book of Daniel is irrelevant.

I have read back. I still don't know what it is that you're trying to say other than implying JWs and their God stopped WW2. Have I got that right?

[TheDon]

So what point are you making Julie?

I was answering a direct assault by Risso... as I said to Chindie... read back and you will see.

Jehovah's Witnesses knew that Germany would lose WW2 the moment the the war started against the Anglo- American axis - from their

studies of the Book of Daniel.

Can I have fridays lottery numbers please?

I'm sure they'll be in one of the books somewhere...

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Jehovah's Witnesses knew that Germany would lose WW2 the moment the the war started against the Anglo- American axis - from their

studies of the Book of Daniel.

[Chindie]

As you trot out your dislike of JWs you mean?

Don't be vain, I hate all the nutjobs equally. There maybe some pity in there, some just don't know better.

[steaknchips]

Kiwi,

You post great stuff for a kid that learnt about the bible in primary school..

[JulieB]

Let me guess dinosaurs weren't real and are a creation of the follower of the devil doing his work here on earth!

Why would anyone think that the Bible in anyway denied the existence of Dinosaurs?

Having watched Flying Monsters with David Attenborough it appears that flying dinosaurs ruled the skies at one time.

Genesis specifically mentions flying creatures (interestingly as opposed to Birds) as one of the creative acts during the 5th Creative period

And God went on to say: “Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls and let flying creatures fly over the earth upon the face of the expanse of the heavens.” 21 And God proceeded to create the great sea monsters and every living soul that moves about, which the waters swarmed forth according to their kinds, and every winged flying creature according to its kind.

The same creative period included specific mention of the great sea monsters OR at the risk of upsetting Limpid... the Hebrew word for Great Sea Monsters can indeed be translated as "Great Reptiles"

[Kiwivillan]

Kiwi,

You post great stuff for a kid that learnt about the bible in primary school..

and secondary school.

What are you saying exactly. I never was taught to take it literally in it's entirety. That would be moronic.

Beyond that here's a fact for all christians. Jesus never said the things he says in the bible. They we're attributed to him... hundreds of years later.

[JulieB]

In fairness to JulieB

Risso mentioned Jehovahs Witness's not fighting against Nazis.

I think its only right whatever you think of JW's that its pointed out they were persecuted and killed in Nazi Germany like many groups . They were vocal critics of Nazi party very early on.

Unlike the catholic church...

But yes this offtopic somehwat

Actually, a quick Google shows that this standing up to Hitler is more lies and misinformation put about by this detestable cult.

Martin I didn't take you to be a liar. There is a huge amount of evidence about this subject from sources nothing to do with Jehovah's Witnesses.

Channel 4 made a film all about it called Purple Triangles.

[JulieB]

Purple Triangle:

An Untold Story of the Holocaust

"All of us, Jehovah's Witnesses or non-Witnesses, should not forget the history of the inmates with the purple triangle. It was a beam of light in a dark age." - Dr. Detlef Garbe, Director, Neuengamme Concentration Camp Memorial Museum

From the hate crimes in suburban America to genocide in Rwanda and Bosnia, news events tell us that the lessons of the Holocaust remain all too relevant in our day. As an educator, parent, or concerned citizen, you may wonder about the human capacity to resist evil. And you may wish for more positive examples to use in educating a future generation.

On Wednesday, April 28, 1999 at 7:00 p.m., in Winifred Moore Auditorium, a remarkable program at Webster University will describe what one Holocaust historian called "a tiny island of unflagging resistance existing in the bosom of a terrorized nation."

The program will relate the historical aspects of the resistance of Jehovah's Witnesses, a religious community brutally persecuted by Hitler. For educators, this special event will provide valuable teaching aids for explaining the role of these "other victims" of Nazism. For all, it will provide a powerful example of ordinary people who followed their conscience in the face of tyranny.

This special program, which is co-sponsored by the Department of Behavioral and Social Sciences and the College of Arts and Sciences at Webster University will feature presentations by two Holocaust scholars and interviews with two survivors, Rudolf Graichen and Guenther Gafel. The two-and-a-half-hour program includes an acclaimed video documentary, recommended by the Association of Holocaust Organizations, as well as a historical exhibit.

Admission is free. As seating is limited, advance registration is required.

For more information call (314) 968 - 6970

Directions to Webster University and the Winifred Moore Auditorium.

"Holocaust scholars are well aware of the danger of showing only the horrors of this era. If we ignore the stories of the resisters, we send the unspoken message that nothing could have been done, that the history could not have been different. The story of Jehovah's Witnesses shows that the Holocaust didn't have to happen. Humanity does have the capacity to stand up and speak out for what is right." Film Producer James Pellechia

Program Highlights

Survivors

Guenther Gafel's parents became Jehovah's Witnesses in about 1934. Guenther was born in 1935, one of ten children. His father Ludwig Gafel was arrested in 1936 for being a Witness and spent the next nine years in four Nazi camps. Six of the children were taken from school because they would not heil Hitler. They were placed with Nazi families, where they were forced to do hard labor. The family was reunited after the war. However, Ludwig was arrested in 1950 by the East German Police. He was sent to Potsdam prison, where he later died.

Rudolf Graichen was born in 1925 in Germany. In 1937, the Gestapo arrested all the male members of the local congregation. His father was sentenced to five years in prison. As a 12-year-old in school, Rudolf withstood intense pressure to join the Hitler Youth. In 1938, along with his sister, Rudolf was taken from school by the police to a reform school. Later they were sent to live with a Nazi family. In 1943, 18-year-old Rudolf Graichen was briefly reunited with his mother after a four-year separation. She sat next to him on a bench in a German courtroom where they both were sentenced to Nazi prisons. Graichen would never see his mother again as she died in Ravensbrück concentration camp shortly before the war ended. He was sentenced to four years in prison, more than a year of which was spent in solitary confinement in Stollberg.

On April 28, 1999, Graichen, now a resident of Brady, Texas, and Gafel, now a resident Morrisville, Vermont, will tell their stories. Stories which include years spent in Nazi reform schools, foster care and prison for refusing to renounce their religious faith and refusing to support Hitler's regime.

Program Speakers

Jolene Chu, researcher and archivist at the Watch Tower Society, specializes in the history of Jehovah's Witnesses during the Nazi era. She coordinates Holocaust education programs, teacher and student seminars, and research projects.

Dr. Linda M. Woolf, Associate Professor of Psychology at Webster University, regularly writes, presents, and teaches courses related to the Holocaust, genocide studies, and peace psychology.

Documentary

"Jehovah's Witnesses Stand Firm During The Nazi Assault" In this unique video documentary, Holocaust historians from North America and Europe, and Witness survivors join together to relate a story of courage and triummph. Recommended by the Association of Holocaust Organizations.

There is no charge for admission to the event or for the handout materials. Seating is limited. For more information, call (314) 968-6970.

Purple Triangles

[Risso]

J F Rutherford sent a letter to Hitler showing himself to be anti-semitic and in support of Hitler's goals. If anybody's a liar here, it isn't me. Lots of individual JWs were persecuted, but that doesn't mean the leadership stood up to Hitler; far from it. He also predicted that the Germans would triumph over Britain, so that's another lie as well.

Face it, you belong to a cult that spreads lies and misinformation, whose one goal in life is to brain wash people into following the cult like mindless automatons.

[steaknchips]

Kiwi,

You post great stuff for a kid that learnt about the bible in primary school..

and secondary school.

What are you saying exactly. I never was taught to take it literally in it's entirety. That would be moronic.

Beyond that here's a fact for all christians. Jesus never said the things he says in the bible. They we're attributed to him... hundreds of years later.

What im saying Kiwi...Is that you wouldnt act like you do if you have read and "understand" the bible..

The "reading" part was never a problem in the past for anyone...Yeah, yeah, yeah ive read the bible word for word etc and its all messed up and has little substance, its contradictory, its flawed, it dosnt fit in, blah blah blah...We've all been there..

But do some homework and can get unbiased material available to research it all yourself.. It opens sooo many doors in understanding EVERYTHING!

[JulieB]

J F Rutherford sent a letter to Hitler showing himself to be anti-semitic and in support of Hitler's goals. If anybody's a liar here, it isn't me. Lots of individual JWs were persecuted, but that doesn't mean the leadership stood up to Hitler; far from it. He also predicted that the Germans would triumph over Britain, so that's another lie as well.

Face it, you belong to a cult that spreads lies and misinformation, whose one goal in life is to brain wash people into following the cult like mindless automatons.

I don't know where you're getting these lies from but they are complete tosh as attested to by Holocaust Museums all over the world.

[limpid]

The same creative period included specific mention of the great sea monsters OR at the risk of upsetting Limpid... the Hebrew word for Great Sea Monsters can indeed be translated as "Great Reptiles"

Please name your source. There are different Hebrew words for "monster" and "reptile", but I'm sure you can find some ridiculous quote that says otherwise.

[Sie]

What im saying Kiwi...Is that you wouldnt act like you do if you have read and "understand" the bible..

The "reading" part was never a problem in the past for anyone...Yeah, yeah, yeah ive read the bible word for word etc and its all messed up and has little substance, its contradictory, its flawed, it dosnt fit in, blah blah blah...We've all been there..

But do some homework and can get unbiased material available to research it all yourself.. It opens sooo many doors in understanding EVERYTHING!

Your mind is broken.

[JulieB]

Despite these initial attacks, Jehovah’s Witnesses stood their ground and publicly denounced the oppression and injustice. The November 1, 1933, issue of The Watchtower featured the article “Fear Them Not.” It was prepared especially for the German Witnesses, exhorting them to take courage in the face of mounting pressure.

On February 9, 1934, J. F. Rutherford, the president of the Watch Tower Society, sent a letter of protest to Hitler stating: “You may successfully resist any and all men, but you cannot successfully resist Jehovah God. . . . In the name of Jehovah God and His anointed King, Christ Jesus, I demand that you give order to all officials and servants of your government that Jehovah’s witnesses in Germany be permitted to peaceably assemble and without hindrance worship God.”

Rutherford set March 24, 1934, as the deadline. He said that if by that time relief did not come to the German Witnesses, the facts about the persecution would be published throughout Germany and the rest of the world. The Nazis answered Rutherford’s demand with stepped-up abuses, sending many of Jehovah’s Witnesses to the concentration camps that had recently been set up. Thus, they were among the first inmates of these camps.

And you have the nerve to say .. I beleive lies.

Shame on you Martin.

One of the streets in Berlin has recently been named after one of Jehovah's Witnesses who was beheaded in the concentration camps. He wasn't good enough for a bullet, so they beheaded him.

[Risso]

So what point are you making Julie?

I was answering a direct assault by Risso... as I said to Chindie... read back and you will see.

Jehovah's Witnesses knew that Germany would lose WW2 the moment the the war started against the Anglo- American axis - from their

studies of the Book of Daniel.

Hmmm. The bloke who started your sect seems to be of the opposite opinion:

See page 15 and 16.

[Kiwivillan]

Kiwi,

You post great stuff for a kid that learnt about the bible in primary school..

and secondary school.

What are you saying exactly. I never was taught to take it literally in it's entirety. That would be moronic.

Beyond that here's a fact for all christians. Jesus never said the things he says in the bible. They we're attributed to him... hundreds of years later.

What im saying Kiwi...Is that you wouldnt act like you do if you have read and "understand" the bible..

The "reading" part was never a problem in the past for anyone...Yeah, yeah, yeah ive read the bible word for word etc and its all messed up and has little substance, its contradictory, its flawed, it dosnt fit in, blah blah blah...We've all been there..

But do some homework and can get unbiased material available to research it all yourself.. It opens sooo many doors in understanding EVERYTHING!

I said this before you freak.

You and yours think that anyone that has read the bible and does not believe didn't read it properly, doesn't "understand".

How about you read it for what it is. Written by man, used to control peasants.

[steaknchips]

What im saying Kiwi...Is that you wouldnt act like you do if you have read and "understand" the bible..

The "reading" part was never a problem in the past for anyone...Yeah, yeah, yeah ive read the bible word for word etc and its all messed up and has little substance, its contradictory, its flawed, it dosnt fit in, blah blah blah...We've all been there..

But do some homework and can get unbiased material available to research it all yourself.. It opens sooo many doors in understanding EVERYTHING!

Your mind is broken.

Sie, Im not asking ANYONE who reads this thread to join any club, sect, cult or any other little fundamentalist money grabbing group..All im asking is just do some research to try and get an understanding of the bible. Then form your own opinion..