sexbelowsound Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 MyFitnessPal and the barcode scanner it has is a lifesaver. I'm like you, I can either go massively over or sometimes massively under just by not tracking what i'm doing. Discipline is hard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Here is the current upper body routine i'm trying out. Aim to hit CDT and BBF twice a week and legs once a week. Tried to make sure where possible I have as many variations of push and pull and hit the majority of my exercises as compounds. Chest/Delts/Triceps A Incline Dumbbell Press x4 Decline Dumbbell Press x4 Incline Flys x4 Kettlebell Pullover x3 Upright Row x3 Reverse Flyes x3 Shoulder Press x3 Close Grip Incline Press x3 Tricep Extension x3 Chest/Delts/Triceps B Incline Dumbbell Press x4 Flat Dumbbell Press x4 Flys x4 Kettlebell Pullover x3 Military Press x3 Lateral Raise x3 Front Raise x3 Close Grip Press x3 Tricep Kickback x3 Back/Biceps/Forearms A Deadlift x4 Shrug x4 Bent Over Row x3 Reverse Grip Bent Over Row x3 Wide Grip Barbell Curl x3 Close Grip Barbell Curl x3 Wrist Curl x4 Back/Biceps/Forearms B Sumo High Pull x4 Incline Row x4 One Arm Row x3 Romanian Deadlift x4 Incline Hammer Curl x3 Incline Bicep Curl x3 Reverse Wrist Curl x4 Edited February 23, 2015 by sexbelowsound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 23, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 23, 2015 MyFitnessPal and the barcode scanner it has is a lifesaver. I'm like you, I can either go massively over or sometimes massively under just by not tracking what i'm doing. Discipline is hard! Yep. Didn't use that before on my bulks. Will definitely be using it this time around! Long way to go until then though. At the moment I'm concentrating on the beach in 15 weeks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 HIIT has been proven on countless occasions to be far superior to traditional steady state state stuff when it comes to developing aerobic capacity. It's the fastest way to raise VO2 max. So anyone looking to increase their athletic performance should ditch the long, boring stuff.Tbh different things work for different people, i just do steady state incline walking for 15mins a few times a week and it keeps the fat off, HIIT didnt really work for me I wasn't talking about fat burning - I was talking about developing aerobic capacity. A fifteen minute walk will do naff all for that, unless you're ridiculously unfit to begin with, or obese and not able to handle the impact or more intense stuff . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Here is the current upper body routine i'm trying out. Aim to hit CDT and BBF twice a week and legs once a week. Tried to make sure where possible I have as many variations of push and pull and hit the majority of my exercises as compounds.Chest/Delts/Triceps A Incline Dumbbell Press x4 Decline Dumbbell Press x4 Incline Flys x4 Kettlebell Pullover x3 Upright Row x3 Reverse Flyes x3 Shoulder Press x3 Close Grip Incline Press x3 Tricep Extension x3Chest/Delts/Triceps B Incline Dumbbell Press x4 Flat Dumbbell Press x4 Flys x4 Kettlebell Pullover x3 Military Press x3 Lateral Raise x3 Front Raise x3 Close Grip Press x3 Tricep Kickback x3Back/Biceps/Forearms A Deadlift x4 Shrug x4 Bent Over Row x3 Reverse Grip Bent Over Row x3 Wide Grip Barbell Curl x3 Close Grip Barbell Curl x3 Wrist Curl x4Back/Biceps/Forearms B Sumo High Pull x4 Incline Row x4 One Arm Row x3 Romanian Deadlift x4 Incline Hammer Curl x3 Incline Bicep Curl x3 Reverse Wrist Curl x4 Sorry if it seems like I'm just trying to shit on everyone's routines but there a couple of reasons why I would never do or recommend that plan. Firstly, look at the amount of pressing you're doing in comparison to rowing movements. That's a recipe for imbalance and ultimately, injury. The ratio should be at least 1:1, if not as high as 2:1 in favour of rows. Secondly, the volume. There 9 exercises in a couple of your workouts. I have never done 9 exercises in a session (unless I've been doing agonist/antagonist pairings). I'd suggest reducing that to 5, 6 maximum and hitting each with a bit more intensity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 23, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) I'd be interested in getting your feedback on my routine JB, as I tend to agree with most of what you say. It's my usual 4 day split having spent 6 months jumping around on other routines. Works for me and I got it from Muscle and Strength so I expect it to be reasonably sound, but still. Day 1 - Chest and Triceps Dips to warm up Bench press Incline DB Press Cable Cross Over Incline DB Flies Skull Crushers Tricep pull downs DB Tricep extensions Day 2 - Back and Abs Pull ups to warm up Barbell Row Deadlifts Single arm DB rows Lat Pulldown Seated Row Various Ab exercises Day 3 - Shoulders and Biceps Overhead BB Press Lat Raises Shrugs High seated Row Seated DB Bicep Curls Standing BB Curls Hammer Curls Day 4 - Legs Squats Leg press Leg Extension Romanian Dead Lifts Calf Raises Do pyramid sets on most things. 12, 10, 8, 6 Squats, BB Rows and Deadlifts I tend to go for 5x5 apart from maybe the first set as it'll be too light really for a set of 5. Edited February 23, 2015 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Sorry if it seems like I'm just trying to shit on everyone's routines but there a couple of reasons why I would never do or recommend that plan. Firstly, look at the amount of pressing you're doing in comparison to rowing movements. That's a recipe for imbalance and ultimately, injury. The ratio should be at least 1:1, if not as high as 2:1 in favour of rows. Secondly, the volume. There 9 exercises in a couple of your workouts. I have never done 9 exercises in a session (unless I've been doing agonist/antagonist pairings). I'd suggest reducing that to 5, 6 maximum and hitting each with a bit more intensity. Don't worry about it, i'm always open to constructive criticism. The volume for me isn't an issue and I still manage to hit the exercises intensely, I guess it comes down to personal preference. I think there is a decent balance between pulling and pushing though isn't there? What would you suggest I take out and add? Bare in mind i'm only using free weights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 So after last weeks discussions on cardio vs HIT I decided I am going to mix it up a bit. Usually do a different type of cardio everyday but I am going to do HIT 3 times a week and 2 more steady state cardio sessions to keep the endurance levels up. Did HIT for the first time in a long time today and nearly vomited on the floor after the grand total of 3 mins exercise (not including a little warm up). All good though Thinking I should maybe find some proper HIT routines as I made it up today, just did a Tabata style 20 secs full blast 10 seconds active rest. On the exercise bike with a high resistance for the full blast bits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 23, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 23, 2015 I think you can give yourself more of a rest period than that. I usually do 20 second blasts and 40 second rests. Gives you a nice round 1 minute figure to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Yes I think I got the ratios a bit out today as I felt pretty ropey for several minutes afterwards ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I'd be interested in getting your feedback on my routine JB, as I tend to agree with most of what you say. It's my usual 4 day split having spent 6 months jumping around on other routines. Works for me and I got it from Muscle and Strength so I expect it to be reasonably sound, but still. Day 1 - Chest and Triceps Dips to warm up Bench press Incline DB Press Cable Cross Over Incline DB Flies Skull Crushers Tricep pull downs DB Tricep extensions Day 2 - Back and Abs Pull ups to warm up Barbell Row Deadlifts Single arm DB rows Lat Pulldown Seated Row Various Ab exercises Day 3 - Shoulders and Biceps Overhead BB Press Lat Raises Shrugs High seated Row Seated DB Bicep Curls Standing BB Curls Hammer Curls Day 4 - Legs Squats Leg press Leg Extension Romanian Dead Lifts Calf Raises Do pyramid sets on most things. 12, 10, 8, 6 Squats, BB Rows and Deadlifts I tend to go for 5x5 apart from maybe the first set as it'll be too light really for a set of 5. Looks like a pretty good bodybuilding-type plan to me. There are a couple of things I would change/add but I'm not sure how much of that is influenced by my personal preference. I'd try pairing some stuff together and I wouldn't do barbell rows before deadlifts as the isometric hold while flexing at the hips is quite taxing and could impair deadlift performance. In fact, I prefer DB or chest supported rows for that very reason. I would probably only do 5x5 for the 'Big Three' as well. Google 'Dan John Batwings' for an awesome back exercise that has done wonders for me (anything by Dan John is worth reading). I'd also recommend band pull-aparts. I've read a lot of stuff suggesting that the upper back responds best to high volumes/rep ranges. Weighted pull-ups changed the game for me, too. I'm not a fan of the leg press and I only do leg extensions for very high reps (20+) for a pump but again, that's largely preference. Maybe don't stick to rigid set/rep ranges. I've found what works for me and tend to adjust accordingly. I'll try and vary exercises/change up the angles every other workout and always try and incorporate progressive overload principles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Sorry if it seems like I'm just trying to shit on everyone's routines but there a couple of reasons why I would never do or recommend that plan. Firstly, look at the amount of pressing you're doing in comparison to rowing movements. That's a recipe for imbalance and ultimately, injury. The ratio should be at least 1:1, if not as high as 2:1 in favour of rows. Secondly, the volume. There 9 exercises in a couple of your workouts. I have never done 9 exercises in a session (unless I've been doing agonist/antagonist pairings). I'd suggest reducing that to 5, 6 maximum and hitting each with a bit more intensity. Don't worry about it, i'm always open to constructive criticism. The volume for me isn't an issue and I still manage to hit the exercises intensely, I guess it comes down to personal preference. I think there is a decent balance between pulling and pushing though isn't there? What would you suggest I take out and add? Bare in mind i'm only using free weights. Surely volume that high would impair your recovery, even if you don't necessarily realise? Especially if you're doing those workouts twice a week. How long do those sessions take to complete?! I'll be honest and say that 90% of the advice I give people is based on mistakes I've made myself. I made great progress when I cut the number of exercises I did in a session but did say, 4-6 sets and hit them hard. Gave me more scope for switching things up! With regards pulling and pushing, you are doing 14 sets of presses in your CDT workouts and only 6/7 rowing variations in your BBF sessions (no mention of rep ranges). If anything, that ratio should be reversed. You're doing pretty much the same number of sets for biceps as you are for upper back... Also, doing different grip barbell rows in the same workout seems a bit pointless to me (and quite taxing on the lower back). I'd save that switch for different workouts. I'm going back to personal preference (again) but I do very little direct shoulder work now other than dead-stop/incline lateral raises and some rear delt stuff, with the occasional set of front raises, and if anything, they've grown and feel 10x better. There also don't seem to be any vertical pulls to balance out the overhead pressing. Edited February 23, 2015 by JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 So after last weeks discussions on cardio vs HIT I decided I am going to mix it up a bit. Usually do a different type of cardio everyday but I am going to do HIT 3 times a week and 2 more steady state cardio sessions to keep the endurance levels up. Did HIT for the first time in a long time today and nearly vomited on the floor after the grand total of 3 mins exercise (not including a little warm up). All good though Thinking I should maybe find some proper HIT routines as I made it up today, just did a Tabata style 20 secs full blast 10 seconds active rest. On the exercise bike with a high resistance for the full blast bits. Progression, man! You wouldn't stroll up the bar and try to deadlift 200kg straight away so apply the same principle to your conditioning. Work:rest ratios of 1:3, even 1:4 are fine to begin with. So is just doing 4 or 5 rounds while your build up your stamina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Sorry if it seems like I'm just trying to shit on everyone's routines but there a couple of reasons why I would never do or recommend that plan. Firstly, look at the amount of pressing you're doing in comparison to rowing movements. That's a recipe for imbalance and ultimately, injury. The ratio should be at least 1:1, if not as high as 2:1 in favour of rows. Secondly, the volume. There 9 exercises in a couple of your workouts. I have never done 9 exercises in a session (unless I've been doing agonist/antagonist pairings). I'd suggest reducing that to 5, 6 maximum and hitting each with a bit more intensity. Don't worry about it, i'm always open to constructive criticism. The volume for me isn't an issue and I still manage to hit the exercises intensely, I guess it comes down to personal preference. I think there is a decent balance between pulling and pushing though isn't there? What would you suggest I take out and add? Bare in mind i'm only using free weights. Surely volume that high would impair your recovery, even if you don't necessarily realise? Especially if you're doing those workouts twice a week. How long do those sessions take to complete?! I'll be honest and say that 90% of the advice I give people is based on mistakes I've made myself. I made great progress when I cut the number of exercises I did in a session but did say, 4-6 sets and hit them hard. Gave me more scope for switching things up! With regards pulling and pushing, you are doing 14 sets of presses in your CDT workouts and only 6/7 rowing variations in your BBF sessions (no mention of rep ranges). If anything, that ratio should be reversed. You're doing pretty much the same number of sets for biceps as you are for upper back... Also, doing different grip barbell rows in the same workout seems a bit pointless to me (and quite taxing on the lower back). I'd save that switch for different workouts. I'm going back to personal preference (again) but I do very little direct shoulder work now other than dead-stop/incline lateral raises and some rear delt stuff, with the occasional set of front raises, and if anything, they've grown and feel 10x better. There also don't seem to be any vertical pulls to balance out the overhead pressing. Cheers JB, Definitely going to take your advice on board. Routines honestly don't take that long but maybe because I workout mostly at home so time isn't as much of an issue. Recovery isn't an issue either. Tbh I enjoy lifting weights so the more I can do of it the better for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 23, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 23, 2015 Regarding mine, I don't necessarily do them in that order. I just do things as and when I can as the gym is usually pretty bush when I go so I'd be waiting around all day if I stuck to an order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 24, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 24, 2015 Joined a new gym. it's great because it's pretty quiet, much closer to my house than my previous one, and £20 a month cheaper. But it's annoying me already. It's in a less nice area so there's a few scumbags who use it. And it's so messy. Nobody puts weights away, and if they do they put them in the wrong places. The staff don't seem to ever come round and tidy things up apart from the end of the day. The free weights area is just a minefield of discarded dumbbells. Infuriating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 So I've been looking into it and jb is absolutely right in terms of the back to chest ratio being 2:1. I've been lifting for 3 years now and always followed other people's programmes and the balance of back to chest always seemed to be 1:1 on those which is crazy when you think of the size of the back compared to the chest. Definitely going to reconfigure my workout plan although I actually think my back to chest development is fairly even at the moment, In the long run the ration of 2:1 is much more sound. Cheers JB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 A quick question though. Some leg exercises have an emphasis on the back and are pulling movements. Would they be added to the back ratio even if the back is a secondary muscle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Joined a new gym. it's great because it's pretty quiet, much closer to my house than my previous one, and £20 a month cheaper. But it's annoying me already. It's in a less nice area so there's a few scumbags who use it. And it's so messy. Nobody puts weights away, and if they do they put them in the wrong places. The staff don't seem to ever come round and tidy things up apart from the end of the day. The free weights area is just a minefield of discarded dumbbells. Infuriating. I feel your pain. My gym is out of this world equipment-wise but there are some right clearings in the woods in there. It's now full of chavs and selfie-taking Instagram words removed. I think I've been caught in the background of about 7 or 8 videos or photos this week alone. What's worse is that the gym now seems to be encouraging it. Put your **** phone away and lift some weights you knobs! It was awesome in there at first as the guy who owns it is seriously into his training (I think he's won a few big bodybuilding titles) and he seemed to have just created a bit of a playground based on all the stuff he wanted and saw in American gyms and kept a bit of exclusivity about the place but he just seems obsessed with making more and more money now. He's filling it with some really shitty personal trainers, putting on constant classes that take up most of the equipment and relentlessly marketing it to the point that it's way over capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) A quick question though. Some leg exercises have an emphasis on the back and are pulling movements. Would they be added to the back ratio even if the back is a secondary muscle? Good question . I know exactly what you mean but in my opinion, the answer is no. If you're referring to the dead lift variations then they are what are known as 'hinging' movements, as they (should) involve hinging at the hip (not flexing the lower back as many people seem to think). Muscles in the back are used as stabilisers and those movements will obviously help you pack some muscles on there but in order to balance out the pressing, you need some scapular retraction. In other words, you need to row as the shoulder blades are static in the deadlift and need to retract (the opposite of what they are doing when pressing) to get the benefits. A really, really common mistake when rowing is letting your guns/pythons do all the work. Learning to row properly was a game changer for me. Basically, make sure you're squeezing your shoulder blades together (or just retracting one if doing single arm) before you flex your arms and when you do, consciously lead with the elbows. They shouldn't come too far past your torso. Crucially, row slowly. Dynamic rows are shit IMO. The batwings I mentioned before really helped me with this. A very simple movement but I can't recommend them enough. With regards to the balance, it doesn't necessarily mean you need to do more sets of rows - reps count. So for example, if you did 4 sets of 5 on DB bench (20 reps), you could just 4 sets of 10, or 3 sets of 15 etc. on your rows and your ratio is sorted. I tend not to do anything below 10 reps on rows when doing my own programs. Awesome video on rows (this guy is intimidatingly smart): Anecdotally, I think I mentioned that I'm doing the advanced GVT program at the moment... Not sure how I feel about it as a whole but what I do know is that it's quite pressing-heavy and my shoulders haven't felt this shit for a long time. I've tried sticking 3 sets of 20 band pull-aparts on the end of my workouts which seems to have helped somewhat. Still can't wait to finish it, though. Edited February 24, 2015 by JB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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