snowychap Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Genuine protestors are angry but peaceful. That is nonsense if you are suggesting that, as soon as someone may get caught up in something violent (as you have latterly openly admitted may happen), they cease to be a genuine protestor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 There are people who turn up under the cover of a genuine protest looking to fight Without these people at protests what do you actually have ? Take the UK, the Police and the Tories would love it if a few people turned up and had a slow hand clap for a bit and then went home all nice and quiet. Would the Poll Tax riots have had the same coverage if it was 3 old ladies from the W.I., I think not. The violence at protests is a direct result and predictable result of government decisions, if they don't want the violence then don't take the piss. Also, if you have a Police force like the one in the UK I would think some people use this to get at the Police, there is no other route if they have done something to you or your family. Look how they tried to cover up the Tomlinison murder, he was not even a protester. There are always 2 sides to a story remember. There was a Police programme on the BBC the other day (Motorway cops or similar) , a copper was on his own in Luton been attacked for 9 minutes on his own by 3 kids. No one helped him at all, the public just watched, loads of them. Some even recording it on their mobile......don't they ever wonder why that is ? (Bit off topic) Yes the violence is horrible but with governments as they are they are asking for it. If someone sticks there chin out saying "go on I dare ya!" then what do they really expect ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Genuine protestors are angry but peaceful. That is nonsense if you are suggesting that, as soon as someone may get caught up in something violent (as you have latterly openly admitted may happen), they cease to be a genuine protestor. No, but I do think if you start commiting acts of violence it will hurt your cause and the cause of the other protestors along side you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 There are people who turn up under the cover of a genuine protest looking to fight Without these people at protests what do you actually have ? Take the UK, the Police and the Tories would love it if a few people turned up and had a slow hand clap for a bit and then went home all nice and quiet. Would the Poll Tax riots have had the same coverage if it was 3 old ladies from the W.I., I think not. The violence at protests is a direct result and predictable result of government decisions, if they don't want the violence then don't take the piss. Also, if you have a Police force like the one in the UK I would think some people use this to get at the Police, there is no other route if they have done something to you or your family. Look how they tried to cover up the Tomlinison murder, he was not even a protester. There are always 2 sides to a story remember. There was a Police programme on the BBC the other day (Motorway cops or similar) , a copper was on his own in Luton been attacked for 9 minutes on his own by 3 kids. No one helped him at all, the public just watched, loads of them. Some even recording it on their mobile......don't they ever wonder why that is ? (Bit off topic) Yes the violence is horrible but with governments as they are they are asking for it. If someone sticks there chin out saying "go on I dare ya!" then what do they really expect ? There are examples of peaceful protest achieving results. Also, peaceful protests tend to get a wider demographic, some people are turned off from turning out if they think there will be violence, families for example. One thing I have noticed living here is that people here are much less trusting of the police than back home in Sydney. I think Australians in general are more accepting of authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 There are examples of peaceful protest achieving results. Also, peaceful protests tend to get a wider demographic, some people are turned off turning out if they think things will be violent, familes for example. One thing I have noticed living here is that people here are much less trusting of the police than back home in Sydney. I think Australians in general are more accepting of authority. I think you are right to a certain extent but I doubt anyone of sound mind would take any families to where there is a protest and a lot of British Police. I think the peaceful protests are a thing of the past unfortunatley, the Police and protesters have a hard core who just like trouble. They are basically the same apart from clothes and the weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Police and protesters have a hard core who just like trouble. They are basically the same apart from clothes and the weapons. Probably true unfortunately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Am I the only one hoping Greece rejects this new round of austerity measures? Not sure what will happen but I think it'll be more interesting if they reject it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 They've passed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Genuine protestors are angry but peaceful. That is nonsense if you are suggesting that, as soon as someone may get caught up in something violent (as you have latterly openly admitted may happen), they cease to be a genuine protestor. No, but I do think if you start commiting acts of violence it will hurt your cause and the cause of the other protestors along side you.No. It will only hurt the cause in the eyes of the obedient droids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Genuine protestors are angry but peaceful. That is nonsense if you are suggesting that, as soon as someone may get caught up in something violent (as you have latterly openly admitted may happen), they cease to be a genuine protestor. No, but I do think if you start commiting acts of violence it will hurt your cause and the cause of the other protestors along side you.No. It will only hurt the cause in the eyes of the obedient droids. So what kinds of violence are you suggesting are acceptable then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 That was the point I was making. It came from Peterms questioning me putting the word protestors in inverted commas. But I didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 That was the point I was making. It came from Peterms questioning me putting the word protestors in inverted commas. But I didn't. Sorry mate, it was Gringo. My mistake. I've got posters coming from all sides, it's hard to keep up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Genuine protestors are angry but peaceful. That is nonsense if you are suggesting that, as soon as someone may get caught up in something violent (as you have latterly openly admitted may happen), they cease to be a genuine protestor. No, but I do think if you start commiting acts of violence it will hurt your cause and the cause of the other protestors along side you.No. It will only hurt the cause in the eyes of the obedient droids. So what kinds of violence are you suggesting are acceptable then?I didn't say it was acceptable, but that it was only the obedient droids that would see one violent act or a very small minority (ie in the recent london protests where we 300k peaceful protestors and 0.1% of that number breaking windows, and the media and the politicians concentrataed on the 0.1% and the obediant droids follow their lead) and use that to tarnish the whole cause of the protestors. It's the sort of simplistic attitude thatcher took to football fans and their ID cards back in the 90s. Anyone taking a serious view of the issues will look past that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Ok, so you seem to be saying it does tarnish the cause in the eyes of the media and politicians. Are they not the two main groups protestors are trying to convince? The politicians in charge of making decisions and the media who have an infulence on wider public opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 No - it tarnishes the cause in the eyes of the obedient drones who slavishly follow the lead of the media and politicians. The media and the politicians tend to know what the real story is. Now they're trying to gether popular support. The politicians and the media do have their own agendas and it requires popular support to force them to listen to the peole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 But you agree it would be preferable to have 0% violence than that 0.1% though right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Of course it would be preferable if no one got hurt. And that goes for the state with their provacateurs, unmarked police officers and illegal kettling tactics as well. The state seeks to provoke violence to give themselves an excusse to crack down. Whereas a few broken windows I'm hardly fussed about - you have to make some noise to be heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Unless they are your windows eh? Anyway, I can't see the Police standing back and allowing that so they would have to step in, and thus it escalates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Unless they are your windows eh? Seeing as I don't currently run a network of branches belonging to a bank that has robbed the nation, then it is unlikely to be my windows. If I had upset people to the extent that 100s of thousands of people were marching against me, the windows would probably be the least of my worries. That wouldn't of course stop me from informing my press officers to brief the murdoch et al media about the damage it caused so the obedient droids could lap it up. Anyway, I can't see the Police standing back and allowing that so they would have to step in, and thus it escalates. Going back to the G20 protests - that's exactly what they did - peaceful march, loads of press, loads of polce around. A group of balaclava wearing provocateurs run up and smash a few windows. The press all managed to get within two feet whilst nearly all the polce remained watching. The exception of course being the police cameraman already inside the building filming the smashing from the other side. State compliance? On the back of this the police responded immediately by waiting for seven hours and then rounding up a group of completely different people in a different area and subjecting them to illegal kettling. The result of which actions of course ended in the death of an innocent bystander (which of course was blamed on the protestors). But that's just a nice diversion from the fact that the greek crisis was caused by (in order of blame) the bankers, the greek govt and the eu govt, and that some think that this should be paid for by (in order of share of costs) the eu taxpayers and the greek taxpayers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Unless they are your windows eh? Seeing as I don't currently run a network of branches belonging to a bank that has robbed the nation, then it is unlikely to be my windows. If I had upset people to the extent that 100s of thousands of people were marching against me, the windows would probably be the least of my worries. Well personally I disagree with that kind of vigilante justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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