Bolitics The New Condem Government

[leviramsey]

Does the US not have its very own red/blue civil wars?

We also don't generally have [multi-party] coalition government*... one party takes all.

*: ignoring Obama's decision to retain Bush appointee Gates as SecDef

[tonyh29]

that will keep the biggest objectors to PR in power

Interestingly in 1997 Labour promised a referendum on the very issue .... I must have been on holiday for about 13 years adn missed when that referendum took place !! so it's a tad rich for Labour to now whine about it now ...

I could have sworn that even in 2010 they were proposing AV in their manifesto , which isn't the same thing as PR .. (they only wanted PR for the HofL)

[snowychap]

Note from wiki: According to the German constitution, the Bundestag can be dissolved by the federal president if the Chancellor loses a vote of confidence, or if a newly elected Bundestag proves unable to elect a chancellor with absolute majority.

I think we might need to be a little careful with the Germans as I gather their governing parties have engineered no confidence votes to call a snap election on a couple of occasions.

[drat01]

that will keep the biggest objectors to PR in power

Interestingly in 1997 Labour promised a referendum on the very issue .... I must have been on holiday for about 13 years adn missed when that referendum took place !! so it's a tad rich for Labour to now whine about it now ...

I could have sworn that even in 2010 they were proposing AV in their manifesto , which isn't the same thing as PR .. (they only wanted PR for the HofL)

Are you still drunk?

I am NOT the Labour party , and as you well know I have been a supporter of PR for a long time.

The Tory manifesto - obviously now to be ignored - stated that their position on this was

A Conservative government will

ensure every vote will have equal value by

introducing ‘fair vote’ reforms to equalise the

size of constituency electorates, and conduct a

boundary review to implement these changes

within five years.

- oops as this has been proven to be untrue and the boundary changes actually benefited them

We support the first-past-the-post system for

Westminster elections because it gives voters

the chance to kick out a government they are

fed up with.

Ooops again

We will work to build a consensus

for a mainly-elected second chamber to replace

the current House of Lords, recognising that an

efficient and effective second chamber should

play an important role in our democracy and

requires both legitimacy and public confidence

hmmm

Having a single vote every

four or five years is not good enough – we need

to give people real control over how they are

governed.

ooops again

[drat01]

Markets continue to drop - FTSE down 3.1% today - lots of factors but it seems that the scare stories were bollox basically and the markets would do what they like subject to lots of factors outside our control.

Also Labour MP was stabbed today :shock: - Timms - The world is a mad bad place at times

[tonyh29]

Labour party you may not be but on that basis nobody on here is The Tory party either so why keep banging on about PR ?

However on the basis that we wish a topic to have a bit more substance than "I am not xxxxx ...end of thread" why don't we work on the basis that you support Labour and are making frequent anti Tory political statements regarding a policy that Labour didn't offer this time around and previously did offer and failed to deliver a promised referendum on

btw isn't the done thing to post a link to a source ? but if you have a spare couple of years to read them all i'm sure I can link to one or two labour broken pledges as well

[wiganvillain]

I think your sig needs attention Tony

[snowychap]

Also Labour MP was stabbed today :shock: - Timms

I've just seen that on the Beeb website. I hope he's okay.

Always comes across a decent bloke when I've seen him on politics programmes or in the House.

[JulieB]

Markets continue to drop - FTSE down 3.1% today - lots of factors but it seems that the scare stories were bollox basically and the markets would do what they like subject to lots of factors outside our control.

All things Greek and Euro I'm afraid..

These debts just won't go away.

Someone asked the other day what the UK deficit was in 1997 last time the Tories were in Downing St and I was told today we didn't have

anything under John Major...... only Edwina Currie!

[leviramsey]

Clegg writes in teh Grauniad

The third runway at Heathrow has been cancelled. ID cards have been scrapped. There will be no more child detention. And reform is now under way to make taxes fair for millions of ordinary people.

These are some of the early achievements of a government that had its first cabinet meeting just two days ago. A new government but, more important, a new kind of government: plural, diverse; a Liberal Democrat-Conservative coalition that defies the rules of old politics.

I know the birth of this coalition has caused much surprise, and, with it, some offence. There are those on both the left and right who are united in thinking this should not have happened. But the truth is this: there was no other responsible way to play the hand dealt to the political parties by the British people at the election. The parliamentary arithmetic made a Lib-Lab coalition unworkable, and it would have been regarded as illegitimate by the British people. Equally, a minority administration would have been too fragile to tackle the political and economic challenges ahead.

So, given that the people told us, explicitly, that they didn't want just one party in charge, we had a duty to find a way for more than one party to govern effectively. And we have.

That's the pragmatic analysis. But what I think has surprised all of us in the government this week is the strength of the agreement on principle, too. No government – whether it's a coalition of parties, or a coalition of rivalries as in the Blair-Brown governments – is able to survive without a core set of common assumptions and aspirations.

David Cameron and I both understand that this government's unifying realisation is that power must be dispersed more fairly in Britain today: from the Whitehall centre to communities; into the hands of patients, parents and pupils in our public services; protecting the rights and freedoms of people from arbitrary state interference; mobilising social mobility through greater fairness in the tax and school system. In short, distributing power and opportunity to people rather than hoarding authority within government.

That is why this government will transform the tax system, allowing people on low and middle incomes to keep more of the money they earn. By making cuts elsewhere in government, we will be able to provide the financial support for our "pupil premium", helping thousands of children who still don't get the individual support they need in school. Education is everything in the creation of a truly mobile society.

We will open up opportunity in our economy, too. The immediate challenge is to tackle the looming deficit. Unpopular decisions will have to be taken in the months and years ahead to fill the black hole in our finances. The challenge for the government will be to do so while always seeking to protect the vulnerable, frontline services, and confidence in our economy. But we can also start to build a new economy, just as we clear up the mess left behind from the collapse of the old. George Osborne and Vince Cable will be developing plans to reform our broken banking system, so that bank lending supports the real economy and banks no longer take unjustified risks. Instead, we will support sustainable growth, balanced across all industries and across all regions, and promote the green industries that are so essential for our shared future.

We will oversee the radical dispersal of power away from Westminster and Whitehall to councils, communities and homes across the nation. So that, wherever possible, people make the call over the decisions that affect their lives. And, crucially, the relentless incursions of the state into the lives of individuals that has characterised the last 13 years ends here. From rolling back excessive surveillance, to ending the criminalisation of innocent people, we will restore and protect our hard-won civil liberties.

I call that agenda liberalism. Others may have other names for it, but whatever terms you prefer, this is our best guarantee of a fair society. That is the case I have argued my whole political life. Yes, as the coalition moves ahead there will be bumps and scrapes along the way; there has already been significant compromise from both sides and there will of course need to be more. And, no, we do not yet have all of the answers to the inevitable questions that lie ahead. While we will be open about our differences, we also know that our strength – the strength now needed to deliver the change needed in Britain – depends on being the sum of our parts. And from our different traditions we can pursue one simple, shared aim: this will be the government that re-empowers the British people.

[Awol]

^ That's a good read. It's certainly not going to be a smooth ride but this Coalition is the best option we've got at the moment. I also like the fact that the central core of the two Parliamentary Party's will help to check and reign in the far left and right extremists inhabiting the fringes of both.

I view it as getting many of the Lib Dems Domestic policies (which I'm happy with) combined with the hard headed realism of the Tories over Defence, the Economy (but with a greater social conscience) and Foreign Affairs. The emphasis on liberty and decentralising power from Whitehall is also, imo, exactly what the country needs.

[wiganvillain]

Agreed Jon,

They've only been in place for less than a week, lets give them some time to show what they can do and whether they can realise the values they're promoting.

It'd be really refreshing to get away from the Yah Boo spin centred crap we've lived with recently

[drat01]

Jon - a complete and utter U turn I see then on the Libs and Clegg in particular? :-)

[Awol]

Jon - a complete and utter U turn I see then on the Libs and Clegg in particular? :-)

I don't trust Clegg as an indivdual no, but then I don't trust Cameron either and have said so. However I distrust them both less than anyone in the previous government and we are where we are.

I've consistently supported Lib Dem domestic policies (other than the immigration amnesty) and opposed their approach to the outside world. What we appear to have now is the strongest side of both parties and given the alternatives, I think this is what's best for the country. I don't actually care about anything else.

[drat01]

Just read through that by Clegg and if I was a LibDem member I would be immediately logging on and cancelling my membership.

He gives away nothing in terms of what the motives were for this, which is fundamentally against the core principles of the party except for one key statement - "I call that agenda liberalism.". Basically they have taken the Judas route and sold their soul to go with a party who clearly before and during the run in to the election held very few, if any, of the same views as the ideals. Before the election one of the mainstay messages was a vote for LibDems was a vote to keep the tories out, heck even on VT we saw that was a message that many brought.

The rest of his article is just a revamp on the hypocrite words of his best chum Dave. More evidence that this really is a merger of the two parties at the highest level - looking back it seems there has always been a lot of common ground between the people in cabinet from social and educational so maybe it shouldn't come as too much of a surprise.

Sorry - Just call me Nick - you have let down your party big style.

[drat01]

I've consistently supported Lib Dem domestic policies (other than the immigration amnesty) and opposed their approach to the outside world. What we appear to have now is the strongest side of both parties and given the alternatives, I think this is what's best for the country. I don't actually care about anything else.

Jon that just is not true though mate, come on even you must admit you have flip flopped on to liking them now because of their cosiness to the Cons? How do you reconcile the Clegg dislike now then, surely if the two most powerful men are both disliked as you say, and lets be honest they call the shots, surely you cannot be comfortable with them being in charge of this new joint party?

[drat01]

A further look around the Grud this morning and you see a slightly different view on the whole LibDem merge with the Con's

link

Some interesting bits including

It emerged yesterday that at least two former Lib Dem leaders, Lord Ashdown and Charles Kennedy, expressed concerns about the pact with the Tories at the crucial private meeting.

According to one Lib Dem present, Ashdown said that while he understood the logic he was "strategically unhappy" and he "wouldn't be part" of any Cameron-Clegg government.

He said the coalition deal upset him because it meant that the Lib Dems were "abandoning the realignment of the left" and feared it would open up the south-west of England to Labour, an area from which the Lib Dems had been driving them out for 30 years.

He added that he feared his party was helping Cameron to become Benjamin Disraeli – and he was not sure who was being cast in the role of Gladstone. However, reflecting the depth of his affection for Clegg and his admiration for the agreement, he ended by saying: "I cannot resist a fight, I'm with you."

According to the Guardian's sources, Kennedy was particularly concerned about the Lib Dems' future in Scotland and Wales, pointing out that there was only 51 weeks until elections in those two regions.

Interesting marriage and as one pundit called it likened to Elton John and Renate Blauel - you just knew that it would end in a split and that the real motives would shine through in the end

[Gringo]

More evidence that this really is a merger of the two parties at the highest level - looking back it seems there has always been a lot of common ground between the people in cabinet from social and educational so maybe it shouldn't come as too much of a surprise

Interesting marriage and as one pundit called it likened to Elton John and Renate Blauel - you just knew that it would end in a split and that the real motives would shine through in the end

So is it a merger? Or doomed marriage?

[Awol]

I've consistently supported Lib Dem domestic policies (other than the immigration amnesty) and opposed their approach to the outside world. What we appear to have now is the strongest side of both parties and given the alternatives, I think this is what's best for the country. I don't actually care about anything else.

Jon that just is not true though mate, come on even you must admit you have flip flopped on to liking them now because of their cosiness to the Cons?

Yes, it is true

Not that I have to justify my vote to you or anyone else but I have told you in reply to this question several times that with a different leader I'd vote Lib Dem as I'm generally most comfortable with their policies. If Clegg is still in charge at the next election I'll vote Tory because they are the next best option.

I'm not pretending I agree with everything they say when clearly THAT isn't true, the same goes for all of the parties.

How do you reconcile the Clegg dislike now then, surely if the two most powerful men are both disliked as you say

I said disliked by me not generally disliked.

surely you cannot be comfortable with them being in charge of this new joint party?

1) It's not a joint party at all Ian, that is just your attempt at spin. It's a a coalition government made up of TWO parties and trying to pretend otherwise is slightly bizarre imo.

2) I am more comfortable with them running the country than say Brown/Mandelson/Campbell/Harperson/Balls/the Milliband's/Bob Ainsworth/Jacqui Smith etc etc etc. It reads more like the cast of a horror movie than a Government.

That is why I'm more than happy with Cameron and Clegg because the alternative is proven to be far far worse. Besides as you liked to say when Brown was in the hotseat, it's not about personality but what they can deliver in Government. Perhaps take your own advice and wait for the ink to dry on the agreement before deciding it won't work?

[snowychap]

Clegg writes in teh Grauniad

The third runway at Heathrow has been cancelled. ID cards have been scrapped. There will be no more child detention. And reform is now under way to make taxes fair for millions of ordinary people.

...

Unless I've missed something, our new government hasn't done this, it has said that it intends to do all this.

They have announced that these things will be happening.