ianrobo1 Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Silent bob, define Ellis's legacy for me ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RantinRob Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Back on topic. Your wish is someone elses command Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 6, 2006 Moderator Share Posted June 6, 2006 ellis is about as desperate to sell as i am to chop my bollocks and old chap off, put them in a blender and eat it with a side of salad.... Gross out dude! I mean salad! who eats that sh!t? (sorry, back OT...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent_Bob Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Silent bob, define Ellis's legacy for me ? In his own world he is Mr Aston Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daholteend Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 ellis is about as desperate to sell as i am to chop my bollocks and old chap off, put them in a blender and eat it with a side of salad.... Thankfully, Doug's "salad days" are over, but I think the old lad would sell his shares IF the money was right and the terms of the contract protected the future security of the club as a going concern and against asset stripping. Even though many fans agree that Doug is well past his sell by date, I think their is still an ample ego and a sense pride left in the old chap not to just give away his prized asset for the first best offer that comes along. Doug has never been one to do anything quickly and efficiently and I am sure that his ego is big enough to ignore the sentiments of most of the fans. He isn't in any hurry. I would be interested to see what the bookies odds were of Doug selling before his demise. Any takers? ( apart from undertakers that is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Thankfully, Doug's "salad days" are over, but I think the old lad would sell his shares IF the money was right and the terms of the contract protected the future security of the club as a going concern and against asset stripping. He can not do this. How do you define asset stripping ? Is it taking £4m out when the club floats ? It's not possible and just a sheild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daholteend Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Ian, Asset strippers take over a company and then sell parts of it for a profit. The concept behind asset stripping is that a company may be purchased for less money than the value of the individual parts. In AVFC's case there may be several opportunities to asset strip. The portion of land that the club has been trying to get planning permission to build a supermarket comes to mind. The biggest "heist" of all would be to sell off Villa Park itself and perhaps move the club to another venue , say near the NEC for example. Asset strippers are only limited by their own vision and local Town and Country Planning Legislation. Ian, you say "He can not do this" but one can contract with another party to sell shares and interests and limit the future use of the shares or interests, providing you have a purchaser who is willing to be bound by such terms and the terms are legal. There have been plenty of rumours concerning the possible Comer Takeover. We have all heard stories to the effect that Doug's asking price has not been met, and that no offer has been made for his shares as of yet. We have also heard stories that Doug has wished to ensure the future viability of the club and has wished to protect the club from asset stripping. Of course all of this is hearsay and conjecture. However, Aston Villa's grounds could be a potential site for a property developer with big ambitions for a multi purpose commercial, residential development. A new owner of the club might well decide that moving the club to a new location would be a more profitable solution. It is entirely possible. The rumour mill seems to indicate that Doug has concerns about that precise event and may ask any potential purchaser for some guarantees that the Club itself will remain intact and playing at Villa Park for some years to come. However, as they say, money talks B*llsh*t walks, if some one came in with a substantial offer and insisted that there be no strings attached, whose to say that that offer might not be accepted. Everything will be revealed in the fullness of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 the thing is to move to say a new 40,000 staduim would cost around £120 - £150m and there is no way that selling VP and the rest would fund this. Of course in an out of town one you can add casino's etc. Ellis is using asset stripping because he knows a lot of Villa fans will agree with this and back him and thus lessens the pressure on him. It is false .... there are not enough assets within Villa to strip to make a profit and only two people have enough control to do this, Ellis and Petchey. all a cover for ellis to hide behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daholteend Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 I don't disagree with your points ianrobo1. Doug seems to know the cat and mouse game to deflect focus from what he is really up to. In his next life he should consider being a political spin doctor. you also say the thing is to move to say a new 40,000 staduim would cost around £120 - £150m and there is no way that selling VP and the rest would fund this. Of course in an out of town one you can add casino's etc. It occurs to me that online casinos like Mansion for example that invested in Spurrrrrrrrz may very well think that your idea is a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted June 7, 2006 Moderator Share Posted June 7, 2006 Unfortunately the government doesn't agree, you've got more chance of adding a zoo to a new stadium than a casino in the midlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daholteend Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 the thing is to move to say a new 40,000 staduim would cost around £120 - £150m and there is no way that selling VP and the rest would fund this. Of course in an out of town one you can add casino's etc. Ellis is using asset stripping because he knows a lot of Villa fans will agree with this and back him and thus lessens the pressure on him. It is false .... there are not enough assets within Villa to strip to make a profit and only two people have enough control to do this, Ellis and Petchey. all a cover for ellis to hide behind. Hmmmmmmmm Ian ? What is your relationship with the club ? Just kidding. The portion highlighted in bold asks the question of whether Villa has any assets to sell/strip On another thread I read that Doug has issued a notice to the stock exchange authorities of the club's desire to sell the Serpentine Property valued at 100,000 on the books for a sum estimated to be in the region of 7M + . This was a timely answer from the board that yes AVFC does have assets that are undervalued and that could be sold off for a substantial profit. It was pleasing to see that the board has decided that if any body was going to sell the assets it would be them! If the monies raised by the potential sale of these assets bring in players like Milner and perhaps a creative attacking midfielder we can all be suitably surprised , but delighted If AVFC continues to trim these undervalued assets and raises further funds, it will have the effect of reducing the value of the club to a level that could attract a positive buyer whose prime interest is to restore AVFC rather than sell off undervalued real estate. In the meantime raising 7M or more gives the board some wiggle room to provide funds for the maintenance of the club's status in the Premiership. Not huge funds by some clubs standards, but better than Mother Hubbard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfcinwales Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 What crap. The club has always had the assets, why have they not been used as past ceo's wanted. Only when the club is near bankrupt thanks to the extremely poor management do panic measure come to the fore. All Ellis is doing is managing the club as any poor manager does as the ship sinks Anyone who has been in business will appreciate that downsizing staff, poor term performances, and selling off the assets to pay banks rather than investing in expansion are sure signs of trrouble in a company. Maybe worth checking to see if there are any court actions against the club for unpaid monies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Ellis is managing the club from the point of view of making it attractive to prospective purchasers and not managing the club to provide success on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daholteend Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 What crap. The club has always had the assets, why have they not been used as past ceo's wanted. Only when the club is near bankrupt thanks to the extremely poor management do panic measure come to the fore. All Ellis is doing is managing the club as any poor manager does as the ship sinks Anyone who has been in business will appreciate that downsizing staff, poor term performances, and selling off the assets to pay banks rather than investing in expansion are sure signs of trrouble in a company. Maybe worth checking to see if there are any court actions against the club for unpaid monies Do you have solid facts to support your allegations of "near bankrupt" and "selling off assets to pay banks" and "checking to see if there are any court actions ? If so, I am sure we would all be pleased to hear them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCinSpain Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Ellis is managing the club from the point of view of making it attractive to prospective purchasers and not managing the club to provide success on the field. The above might be true if you believe Ellis really want to sell. After all the months that have gone by since last October, Ellis wants an unrealistic amount for the club to allow him to retain control and his maintain his ability keep his personal ego trip. Success on the field would be great and I'm sure Ellis would also like that, but it's been secondary to personal financial considerations for many seasons. I still believe that his famous quote that "he'll only leave VP in a box" to be the truest words he's ever uttered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCinSpain Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 What crap. The club has always had the assets, why have they not been used as past ceo's wanted. Only when the club is near bankrupt thanks to the extremely poor management do panic measure come to the fore. All Ellis is doing is managing the club as any poor manager does as the ship sinks Anyone who has been in business will appreciate that downsizing staff, poor term performances, and selling off the assets to pay banks rather than investing in expansion are sure signs of trrouble in a company. Maybe worth checking to see if there are any court actions against the club for unpaid monies Do you have solid facts to support your allegations of "near bankrupt" and "selling off assets to pay banks" and "checking to see if there are any court actions ? If so, I am sure we would all be pleased to hear them What do you call using the sale of the Serpentine to go towards clearing debts, if it's not paying the banks? As Malcolm as alluded, the actions and statements from VP of late, all point to financial difficulties at B6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daholteend Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 The funds realised by the potential sale of the Serpentine Property will increase the net worth of AVFC and would presumably be used by the board in any number of ways that we, not being board members, or major shareholders are not privy to at this time. Doug, in the past has indicated that AVFC, unlike most Prem clubs is relatively debt free. Even though many of us perhaps do not care for Doug's tenure at the club, and frequently we hear claims that the business is run like a corner shop, one thing that can be said is that Doug is able to read and interpret the profit and loss statements and understands his balance sheet. It seems to me that he runs the corporation like a Chancellor of the Exchequer and knows where every penny is spent. In 2005 Aston Villa was ranked by Deloitte at Number 20 in their rankings of the world's money clubs. If anyone is aware of any significant short term or long term debts owned by the club I would be interested to hear them. The club's performance last season was woeful in terms of playing ability and more seriously in terms of revenue. Reduced revenues mean that prudent businessmen have to consider their cash position and budget accordingly. If the budget reveals that there will be a shortfall of funds at any point, attention has to be given as to how to adjust for that situation. There are ways to rectify a position. Increase sales revenues, and for Aston Villa that means selling more tickets, selling more merchandise, making improved deals with kit suppliers/sponsors etc etc. Secondly they can increase prices of tickets and merchandise etc Another way is to cut overheads by trimming unneccesary staff, or cutting hours or reducing expenditures etc. An improved position in the Prem will bring in more crowds and a better share of the Prem Broadcasting revenues. Selling property that is not maximising it's value is also an option. As previously mentioned, we fans probably don't know how those funds will be spent. It could be used for a host of things that have not been mentioned. Perhaps part of the money will be spent on the new pitch which we have heard is costing 700k. It could also be used on improving the training ground facilities. There are a host of positive uses that can be made of the money. My simple question was for those who are making allegations of "near bankrupt" to support their claims with facts. I would be surprised to hear that such claims were true. We may not always like the way the club is run but once in a while it is possible that the board does some basic things that sensible businessmen do. I prefer to take a balanced view of what the club and it's owner do. I think that sometimes we Villa fans are so severely critical of everything that the club does and are quick to blame Doug or DOL for everything at Villa Park, so much so that even when they do the good things they are criticised. When they make decisons like dismissing managers like BFR or buying Berson and Dj2 and then never playing them or selling them on I too will complain. That's where I am coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablopicasso Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 its all short term thinking from the board though daholteend... we start to lose money, players get sold... we lose more money, staff get released, we still lose money, the land is sold... its missed oportunity to progress after missed opportunity to progress... long term thinking, should have been utilised when we were in a position of strength... when we challenged the top teams... a little debt then, to push us on, means that we wouldnt be scraping around the copper jar to pay the electric bill now.. problem is, it would take massive amounts of investment to get us back to that sort of position, therefore, we have missed the boat because the tickets were too expensive, and are now sinking on a home made raft..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daholteend Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 I agree with you PP We did miss the boat, many times. Bruce Langham was right and sadly we as fans are now paying for the mis steps made since then with having to watch some miserable games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 a little debt then, to push us on, means that we wouldnt be scraping around the copper jar to pay the electric bill now.. Debt is not necessarily a bad thing and could be used innovatively Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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