Are our strikers that bad, really?

[bannedfromHandV]

There have been a few posts lately slagging off our current striking options, whilst I appreciate that neither Emile nor John have scored enough times this season I wondered how we compared to the rest of the league, the stats below are fairly interesting and in my opinion only slightly up for debate (i.e. some stats can be made to look either positive or negative dependent on interpretation).

I appreciate for example that had RvP not gotten injured for Arsenal that their goals per striker will probably have been a lot higher, the stats are inclusive only of Premier League goals and include only strikers, there are one or two debateable inclusions, namely Dirk Kuyt who seems to play right side of midfield now but he is ultimately still (I think) a striker.

What is interesting for me is the level of spending required in order to catch up to those above us, people have been complaining about our need for a new striker lately, someone to really take us on to the next level, given the stats below we'd be looking at an outlay of probably close to £20M.

Could we afford and attract such a player, IMO no.

Arsenal – 7 + 4 + 1 = 12 --- avg 4 per striker

Aston Villa – 8 + 4 + 2 = 14 --- avg 4.66666 per striker

Birmingham – 4 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 10 --- avg 2 per striker

Blackburn – 3 + 1 + 1 = 5 --- avg 1.66666 per striker

Bolton W – 6 + 3 + 2 = 11 --- avg 3.66666 per striker

Burnley – 5 + 3 + 2 + 1 = 11 --- avg 2.75 per striker

Chelsea – 14 + 5 = 19 --- avg 9.5 per striker

Everton – 10 + 1 + 1 = 12 --- avg 4 per striker

Fulham – 6 + 2 + 1 = 9 --- avg 3 per striker

Hull City – 3 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 7 --- avg 1.75 per striker

Liverpool – 12 + 5 + 4 = 21 --- avg 7 per striker

Manchester City – 9 + 6 + 6 + 2 = 23 --- avg 5.75 per striker

Manchester United – 14 + 6 + 2 = 22 --- avg 7.33333333 per striker

Portsmouth – 4 + 3 = 7 --- avg 3.5 per striker

Stoke City – 3 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 7 --- avg 1.75 per striker

Sunderland – 13 + 6 = 19 --- avg 9.5 per striker

Tottenham - 14 + 6 + 4 = 24 --- avg 8 per striker

West Ham – 7 + 5 + 3 + 3 + 1 = 19 --- avg 3.8 per striker

Wigan Ath – 7 + 1 = 8 --- avg 2 per striker

Wolves W – 5 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 9 --- avg 2.25 per striker

Arsenal – Robin Van Persie, Eduardo & Nicklas Bendtner

Aston Villa – Gabby Agbonlahor, John Carew & Emile Heskey

Birmingham – Cameron Jerome, Christian Benitez, James McFadden, Kevin Phillips & Garry O’Connor

Blackburn – Jason Roberts, Franco Di Santo & Benni McCarthy

Bolton W – Ivan Klasnic, Kevin Davies & Johann Elmander

Burnley – Steven Fletcher, David Nugent, Robbie Blake & Kevin McDonald

Chelsea – Didier Drogba & Nicolas Anelka

Everton – Louis Saha, Yakubu & James Vaughan

Fulham – Bobby Zamora, Erik Nevland & Diomansy Kamara

Hull City – Geovanni, Jan Vennegor of Hesselink, Craig Fagan & Kamel Ghilas

Liverpool – Fernando Torres, Dirk Kuyt & David Ngog

Manchester City – Carlos Tevez, Craig Bellamy, Emmanuel Adebayor & Roque Santa Cruz

Manchester United – Wayne Rooney, Dimitar Berbatov & Michael Owen

Portsmouth – Aruna Dindane & Frederic Piquionne

Stoke City – James Beattie, Dave Kitson, Ricardo Fuller & Tuncay Sanli

Sunderland – Darren Bent & Kenwynne Jones

Tottenham – Jermain Defoe, Robbie Keane & Peter Crouch

West Ham – Carlton Cole, Alessandro Diamanti, Guillermo Franco, Junior Stanislas & Luis Jiminez

Wigan Ath – Hugo Rodellega & Scott Sinclair

Wolves W – Kevin Doyle, Nenad Miljas, Sylvain Ebanks-Blake & Stefan Maierhoffer

As you can see, the only clubs to have a better goals per striker ratio than us are Chelsea, Liverpool, Man United and Man City, Tottenham and Sunderland.

Chelsea:

Drogba - £20M?

Anelka - £14M?

Liverpool:

Torres - £25M?

Kuyt - £12M?

Ngog - £1.5M?

Man Utd:

Rooney - £30M?

Berbatov - £30M?

Owen - Free

Man City:

Tevez - £25M/£30M?

Bellamy - £12M?

Adebayor - £20M?

Santa Cruz - £15M?

Spurs:

Defoe - £15M?

Keane - bought back from Liverplop, perhaps £12/£13M?

Crouch £9M?

Sunderland:

Bent - £15M?

Jones - £6M?

Personally for me the jury's still out on Bent, Jones I don't rate but you have to admire them still I guess, end of the season I'd be keen to see if Sunderland still remain there.

Thoughts?

[wiganvillain]

I voted no but I'd rather have voted no, not yet as I think Randy would fund it but I don't think we can attract the really top guys until we make inroads to the "Top 4"

[BOF]

If you factor in that a lot of our goals are scored from set pieces where either Ashley Young/James Milner scores or gives an assist to a defender from a corner then it's even more impressive. I don't think our strikers are bad at all. What I do think is they lack competition for places which a) makes us susceptible to injuries and would make our strikers even better if they knew there was someone itching to take their place from the bench. I also think our style of play, which doesn't lend itself to possession football or consequently to many chances, restricts the opportunities they get in a game. This makes profligacy a more serious issue and perhaps exacerbates the miscues and scuffs that strikers playing for other teams would get many opportunities to rectify during a game.

[bannedfromHandV]

I voted no but I'd rather have voted no, not yet as I think Randy would fund it but I don't think we can attract the really top guys until we make inroads to the "Top 4"

I know, I could have put all kinds of options in the poll but I wanted something a bit more 'black and white', if you know what I mean.

I appreciate that we all hope a little further down the line that we could afford and attract the right player but I'm looking for opinions simply on whether we can do it right now.

[spacemanscott]

I don't think that really proves anything as it includes all sorts of players who rarely play and it therefore skews the figures.

[bannedfromHandV]

I don't think that really proves anything as it includes all sorts of players who rarely play and it therefore skews the figures.

I don't agree......but then I wouldn't! :winkold:

I think it's important at a time when our strikeforce as a whole is coming under fire that we contrast and compare with each other strikeforce in the league, in order to do so you need to include each one that has scored, irregardless of whether they've played 20 minutes or 20 matches, IMO.

[Woodytom]

There have been a few posts lately slagging off our current striking options, whilst I appreciate that neither Emile nor John have scored enough times this season I wondered how we compared to the rest of the league, the stats below are fairly interesting and in my opinion only slightly up for debate (i.e. some stats can be made to look either positive or negative dependent on interpretation).

I appreciate for example that had RvP not gotten injured for Arsenal that their goals per striker will probably have been a lot higher, the stats are inclusive only of Premier League goals and include only strikers, there are one or two debateable inclusions, namely Dirk Kuyt who seems to play right side of midfield now but he is ultimately still (I think) a striker.

What is interesting for me is the level of spending required in order to catch up to those above us, people have been complaining about our need for a new striker lately, someone to really take us on to the next level, given the stats below we'd be looking at an outlay of probably close to £20M.

Could we afford and attract such a player, IMO no.

Arsenal – 7 + 4 + 1 = 12 --- avg 4 per striker

Aston Villa – 8 + 4 + 2 = 13 --- avg 4.333333 per striker

Birmingham – 4 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 10 --- avg 2 per striker

Blackburn – 3 + 1 + 1 = 5 --- avg 1.66666 per striker

Bolton W – 6 + 3 + 2 = 11 --- avg 3.66666 per striker

Burnley – 5 + 3 + 2 + 1 = 11 --- avg 2.75 per striker

Chelsea – 14 + 5 = 19 --- avg 9.5 per striker

Everton – 10 + 1 + 1 = 12 --- avg 4 per striker

Fulham – 6 + 2 + 1 = 9 --- avg 3 per striker

Hull City – 3 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 7 --- avg 1.75 per striker

Liverpool – 12 + 5 + 4 = 21 --- avg 7 per striker

Manchester City – 9 + 6 + 6 + 2 = 23 --- avg 5.75 per striker

Manchester United – 14 + 6 + 2 = 22 --- avg 7.33333333 per striker

Portsmouth – 4 + 3 = 7 --- avg 3.5 per striker

Stoke City – 3 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 7 --- avg 1.75 per striker

Sunderland – 13 + 6 = 19 --- avg 9.5 per striker

Tottenham - 14 + 6 + 4 = 24 --- avg 8 per striker

West Ham – 7 + 5 + 3 + 3 + 1 = 19 --- avg 3.8 per striker

Wigan Ath – 7 + 1 = 8 --- avg 2 per striker

Wolves W – 5 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 9 --- avg 2.25 per striker

Arsenal – Robin Van Persie, Eduardo & Nicklas Bendtner

Aston Villa – Gabby Agbonlahor, John Carew & Emile Heskey

Birmingham – Cameron Jerome, Christian Benitez, James McFadden, Kevin Phillips & Garry O’Connor

Blackburn – Jason Roberts, Franco Di Santo & Benni McCarthy

Bolton W – Ivan Klasnic, Kevin Davies & Johann Elmander

Burnley – Steven Fletcher, David Nugent, Robbie Blake & Kevin McDonald

Chelsea – Didier Drogba & Nicolas Anelka

Everton – Louis Saha, Yakubu & James Vaughan

Fulham – Bobby Zamora, Erik Nevland & Diomansy Kamara

Hull City – Geovanni, Jan Vennegor of Hesselink, Craig Fagan & Kamel Ghilas

Liverpool – Fernando Torres, Dirk Kuyt & David Ngog

Manchester City – Carlos Tevez, Craig Bellamy, Emmanuel Adebayor & Roque Santa Cruz

Manchester United – Wayne Rooney, Dimitar Berbatov & Michael Owen

Portsmouth – Aruna Dindane & Frederic Piquionne

Stoke City – James Beattie, Dave Kitson, Ricardo Fuller & Tuncay Sanli

Sunderland – Darren Bent & Kenwynne Jones

Tottenham – Jermain Defoe, Robbie Keane & Peter Crouch

West Ham – Carlton Cole, Alessandro Diamanti, Guillermo Franco, Junior Stanislas & Luis Jiminez

Wigan Ath – Hugo Rodellega & Scott Sinclair

Wolves W – Kevin Doyle, Nenad Miljas, Sylvain Ebanks-Blake & Stefan Maierhoffer

As you can see, the only clubs to have a better goals per striker ratio than us are Chelsea, Liverpool, Man United and Man City, Tottenham and Sunderland.

Chelsea:

Drogba - £20M?

Anelka - £14M?

Liverpool:

Torres - £25M?

Kuyt - £12M?

Ngog - £1.5M?

Man Utd:

Rooney - £30M?

Berbatov - £30M?

Owen - Free

Man City:

Tevez - £25M/£30M?

Bellamy - £12M?

Adebayor - £20M?

Santa Cruz - £15M?

Spurs:

Defoe - £15M?

Keane - bought back from Liverplop, perhaps £12/£13M?

Crouch £9M?

Sunderland:

Bent - £15M?

Jones - £6M?

Personally for me the jury's still out on Bent, Jones I don't rate but you have to admire them still I guess, end of the season I'd be keen to see if Sunderland still remain there.

Thoughts?

You've got too much time on your hands mate

[bannedfromHandV]

^^^^^^^

Tell me about it........

[spacemanscott]

I don't think that really proves anything as it includes all sorts of players who rarely play and it therefore skews the figures.

I don't agree......but then I wouldn't! :winkold:

I think it's important at a time when our strikeforce as a whole is coming under fire that we contrast and compare with each other strikeforce in the league, in order to do so you need to include each one that has scored, irregardless of whether they've played 20 minutes or 20 matches, IMO.

I see what you're getting at but taking the dirty heathen bastards for example, if you discount O'Connor and his one goal, it bumps their figure to 2.25.

[Annoyman]

I think it's more that our fans are that bad, really

[villabromsgrove]

We have four very useful strikers at the moment even though we perhaps lack a clinical finisher. If Heskey were to be inexplicably sold this january then Hugo Rodallega would be an interesting target imo as he still has his best years in front of him.

[STRAKER]

Many thanks for the statistics BFHV, but i feel it is apparent that our present strikeforce lack intelligent movement to create space for a pass. If we were to sign RVN for instance, then a season, or two, in our team would make Gabby a much more intelligent and better player!

At the moment i also feel we are getting there as far as being able to attract the 20m forward you speak of. At least we should be trying. Who that forward might be is up to the manager, but he will have to shop abroad for him which might be a problem for MON?

[Zatman]

Compares to the teams around us atm like United, City, Spuds etc. our strikers are the weakest and they dont put fear into opponents players like Torres, RVP, Rooney, Drogba, Anelka and Tevez do.

[bannedfromHandV]

I don't think that really proves anything as it includes all sorts of players who rarely play and it therefore skews the figures.

I don't agree......but then I wouldn't! :winkold:

I think it's important at a time when our strikeforce as a whole is coming under fire that we contrast and compare with each other strikeforce in the league, in order to do so you need to include each one that has scored, irregardless of whether they've played 20 minutes or 20 matches, IMO.

I see what you're getting at but taking the dirty heathen bastards for example, if you discount O'Connor and his one goal, it bumps their figure to 2.25.

True, but then why exclude him? He's scored a goal and is a part of their strikeforce?

[bannedfromHandV]

We have four very useful strikers at the moment even though we perhaps lack a clinical finisher. If Heskey were to be inexplicably sold this january then Hugo Rodallega would be an interesting target imo as he still has his best years in front of him.

Agreed, he is potentially an exciting prospect however he seems to be very inconsistent.....

[BOF]

I think the strikeforce should be seen as a single entity. The component parts can change, but the overall total is more relevant than the average per striker. The team on any given day can change for a variety of reasons, but the strike forces job is still to score, no matter who gets it. That would put us 8th overall. I still maintain we don't have a bad strikeforce though.

[bannedfromHandV]

Many thanks for the statistics BFHV, but i feel it is apparent that our present strikeforce lack intelligent movement to create space for a pass. If we were to sign RVN for instance, then a season, or two, in our team would make Gabby a much more intelligent and better player!

At the moment i also feel we are getting there as far as being able to attract the 20m forward you speak of. At least we should be trying. Who that forward might be is up to the manager, but he will have to shop abroad for him which might be a problem for MON?

Can't agree enough in terms of the movement issue, the amount of times I get angry watching JC and Gabby is amazing, they really do need some tuition on how to move in and around a defence.

Agree also that we will need to shop abroad for a potential target though despite fully understanding where the criticism has arisen I still don't fully agree that it necessarily spells out a problem for the gaffer.

[spacemanscott]

I see what you're getting at but taking the dirty heathen bastards for example, if you discount O'Connor and his one goal, it bumps their figure to 2.25.

True, but then why exclude him? He's scored a goal and is a part of their strikeforce?

Because he rarely plays...at least I don't think he does. Or, just as another quicjk example, how about Owen, he never plays in the league and he brings Man U's figure down a fair bit.

[bannedfromHandV]

Compares to the teams around us atm like United, City, Spuds etc. our strikers are the weakest and they dont put fear into opponents players like Torres, RVP, Rooney, Drogba, Anelka and Tevez do.

I appreciate what you're saying but then that's the point of the post really, the 6 or so players you mention above all have a very high transfer value and are unattainable for us currently....which is kind of the point of the post.

On the flip side though I would suggest that there are still probably one or two defenders who don't fancy coming up against Gabby's pace.......not quite as scary as Torres admittedly but y'know, you have to take the positives where they're available.....

[bannedfromHandV]

I see what you're getting at but taking the dirty heathen bastards for example, if you discount O'Connor and his one goal, it bumps their figure to 2.25.

True, but then why exclude him? He's scored a goal and is a part of their strikeforce?

Because he rarely plays...at least I don't think he does. Or, just as another quicjk example, how about Owen, he never plays in the league and he brings Man U's figure down a fair bit.

I do appreciate what you're saying, I do. Perhaps this part of it is open to interpretation then afterall!

Though I believe Owen is relevant, he has featured a fair bit in the league and has scored two goals so I think it would have been more of an injustice to have omitted him, personally.