Risso Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 As you can see, the only clubs to have a better goals per striker ratio than us are Chelsea, Liverpool, Man United and Man City, Tottenham and Sunderland. Nice stats, but that one sentence sums it up perfectly. The 5 clubs we're competing with for the top 4 all have strikers who score more goals than us. Which is a problem, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 As you can see, the only clubs to have a better goals per striker ratio than us are Chelsea, Liverpool, Man United and Man City, Tottenham and Sunderland. Nice stats, but that one sentence sums it up perfectly. The 5 clubs we're competing with for the top 4 all have strikers who score more goals than us. Which is a problem, obviously. Yes, but then they have all spent a fortune to have that, and in the case of Spurs, Liverpool and City they're only marginally better off than us if at all, so my point really is that we could go out and spend £15M on a striker but how much is it going to improve us? Not much IMO. What would improve us would be a striker in the £20 - £30M range but there are a select few players who fall into that category and none, that I can think of would be interested in linking up with us, hence the point of my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 5, 2010 Moderator Share Posted January 5, 2010 Yes, but then they have all spent a fortune to have that, and in the case of Spurs, Liverpool and City they're only marginally better off than us if at all, so my point really is that we could go out and spend £15M on a striker but how much is it going to improve us? Not much IMO. Spurs have scored 10 goals more than us from their strikeforce. Your average figures are clouding that fact. So not only are their averages higher, they have more strikers doing it. City are similar. They've scored 9 more than us and your average is clouding that too. Averages are not the be-all and end-all. As I said in a previous post, the total goals from the strikeforce is the only proper number that is not affected by minutes on the pitch. By your measurement, if Delfouneso was to come on in the next game for 20 minutes and score, our average would be 3.75. Your figures are affected too heavily by minute changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 As you can see, the only clubs to have a better goals per striker ratio than us are Chelsea, Liverpool, Man United and Man City, Tottenham and Sunderland. Nice stats, but that one sentence sums it up perfectly. The 5 clubs we're competing with for the top 4 all have strikers who score more goals than us. Which is a problem, obviously. Not when we've got Curtis Davies coming to back to make sure we never, ever concede a single goal ever again, it's not :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 I don't think it is all about money. We have one of the best defences in the league but not one player in there cost over £8m - compare that to our rivals! I think we have good strikers but the wrong ones. If we look at our main three, I would summarise them as follows: Gabby - very pacey and excellent in a 4-5-1. Struggles a bit in a 4-4-2 because, IMO, we haven't found the right partner for him Carew - on his day, one of the best in the world. It just seems to me that we are rarely going to see his best again. Still very useful as an impact sub, IMO, for the last 20 minutes. Heskey - very good as the point striker with a typically smaller goal scoring second striker feeding off him from a slightly deeper position e.g. Owen or Rooney. I have all but written JC off as a consistent starter now and Gabby and Heskey need different partners. I wanted us to sign Tuncay in the summer and think he would have been the ideal player to play behind Gabby as he is capable of playing the through balls and linking up the midfield to the point striker. IMO, with this sort of partner Gabby's goal ratio should improve. Unfortunately, I think Emile will never really work well with our other strikers. Nathan is a different proposition and I haven't really seen enough of him to form a view. I would love to see him get a chance as a support striker behind Gabby. He is more mobile than both JC and Emile, has a better touch than Emile and is capable of putting a shift in plus he can find the net. I don't think we need to spend £30m, I just think we need to get the right players to work in our team. I would probably have sold Emile and bought in Tuncay at the start of the season to give us more options/a better blend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 We have four very useful strikers at the moment even though we perhaps lack a clinical finisher. If Heskey were to be inexplicably sold this january then Hugo Rodallega would be an interesting target imo as he still has his best years in front of him. Agreed, he is potentially an exciting prospect however he seems to be very inconsistent..... I agree that he needs more consistency but he does have an eye for goal and maybe he could make the step up with better players around him. I think that at some stage we are going to have to gamble on developing a young prospect for 8-10 million rather than having any realistic hope of attracting the finished article from a bigger club with the accompanying huge price tag and salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 How many more goals do you think Heskey will score this season? Two, maybe three if we're lucky. Carew it's hard to say, if he suddenly gets the wind in his sails he could get another 10-15, but I'd argue around 6 to 8 is more likely. Now imagine we buy a striker who gets 10-15, and you can see what a difference that would make to our possible finishing place. I know finding one won't be easy, but we've got a brilliant manager, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salsa Party Animal Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 What we need to do is find a young Alan Shearer before moving to blackburn and watch him to blossom at Villa Park. But where are the striker in similar mould apart from Torres at Liverpool. I hope MON will manage to find a striking partnership strong as Alan Shearer and Les Ferdinand (in their prime) in next few months. I know we should have Torres and Drogba upfront Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 Yes, but then they have all spent a fortune to have that, and in the case of Spurs, Liverpool and City they're only marginally better off than us if at all, so my point really is that we could go out and spend £15M on a striker but how much is it going to improve us? Not much IMO. Spurs have scored 10 goals more than us from their strikeforce. Your average figures are clouding that fact. So not only are their averages higher, they have more strikers doing it. City are similar. They've scored 9 more than us and your average is clouding that too. Averages are not the be-all and end-all. As I said in a previous post, the total goals from the strikeforce is the only proper number that is not affected by minutes on the pitch. By your measurement, if Delfouneso was to come on in the next game for 20 minutes and score, our average would be 3.75. Your figures are affected too heavily by minute changes. BOF, the figures don't cloud anything, particularly in the case of Spurs, as you can quite clearly see their strikers are going almost at a rate of 2:1 over our own, I cannot see where you think the figures are clouding this, my point though, to again reiterate, is that Spurs have spent what? Around £30M to assemble that strike force (not to mention the millions spent on Pavlyuchenko who isn't included). We've spent a mere £10M (arguable) on our strike force and are currently only slightly worse off than them, one result and we're on a par with them again, better in fact. I hate to keep repeating myself but this is kind of the point of the whole post, it's in response to all those clamouring for a change of strikers but who seem unable (outside of Darren Bent and Carlton Cole) to actually come up with feasible suggestions. Darren Bent not being feasible as he would cost £20M+ and is not actually worth anywhere near that and Carlton Cole not being feasible as we've seen the worst of him before and it still wakes me up in a cold swear at 3am each morning....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 There are a tiny tiny handful of strikers who will regularly score 15-20 goals a season. It doesn't matter how brilliant MON is, (and he is), or how much money we have. Clearly there is either the Redknapp/Ridsdale way and destroy your Club by paying daft wages, or else any such striker will go to a traditional Big 4 club. So IMO we have what we have and need to keep a good defence and spread goals around the Team, which is what we do do, and very well it is serving us too. (And if you take the Wigan game out Spurs are pretty much same as us anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 There are a tiny tiny handful of strikers who will regularly score 15-20 goals a season. It doesn't matter how brilliant MON is, (and he is), or how much money we have. Clearly there is either the Redknapp/Ridsdale way and destroy your Club by paying daft wages, or else any such striker will go to a traditional Big 4 club. So IMO we have what we have and need to keep a good defence and spread goals around the Team, which is what we do do, and very well it is serving us too. (And if you take the Wigan game out Spurs are pretty much same as us anyway). Good point re: Spurs v Wigan.......and indeed the rest of the post...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 The thread title and poll title are different really and raise two distinct questions. 1. Are our strikers that bad really ? = Probably not for the level we are at which is upper mid table. Are they good enough to break us into the top level, well your stats sort of suggest what a few have been saying for a while, and not just recently, and that is no. We need better options upfront in order to progress. Can we afford it, well that's an entirely different question really and shouldn't be confused with the question of need. So I think we are all agreed that the need is there. 2. Can we afford and attract such a player. I think the question needs directing to the owner for the afford bit and the manager for the attract bit. Other clubs seem to attract the right type of player, why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 The thread title and poll title are different really and raise two distinct questions. 1. Are our strikers that bad really ? = Probably not for the level we are at which is upper mid table. Are they good enough to break us into the top level, well your stats sort of suggest what a few have been saying for a while, and not just recently, and that is no. We need better options upfront in order to progress. Can we afford it, well that's an entirely different question really and shouldn't be confused with the question of need. So I think we are all agreed that the need is there. 2. Can we afford and attract such a player. I think the question needs directing to the owner for the afford bit and the manager for the attract bit. Other clubs seem to attract the right type of player, why is that? I'm sorry but what's the point in banging on about wanting something if it's not possible, if there was a point in doing such things then I might just start asking the missus for a Ferrari every day, maybe one day she'll cave in and find the £220,000 required to buy me one, becuase obviously she's been holding back to spite me up until this point.....so actually I think it's quite relevant to ask both whether we require and can afford a new striker in the same breath, this isn't fantasy football afterall Richard. Other clubs, and I assume you're referring to Spurs and City, are quite happy to pay over the odds in both transfer fees and wages for players that may or may not come off, the reason being that in City's case they are rich beyond anything you or I or Randy can comprehend, and Spurs for starters charge £1000+ for a Season Ticket, as it seems most Villa fans feel loathe to spend even less than half of that on a ST I would suggest that the club is somewhere between a rock and a hard place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 5, 2010 Moderator Share Posted January 5, 2010 2. Can we afford and attract such a player. I think the question needs directing to the owner for the afford bit and the manager for the attract bit. Other clubs seem to attract the right type of player, why is that? 'Attract' is the key. While we are not CL, we are somewhat limited. IMV we could've had Bent if we'd wanted him. Defoe is loyal to Harry. Pav cost a fortune and was gash for them. They're all rumoured to be sniffing around Carew - so we must be doing something right. And Citeh are not in our ballpark financially. We can't expect to compete against luring Adebaydonkey & Tevez. There are gems out there and I think we'll find them if we want them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 The General has said time and time again that the funds are there if O'Neill requests them. I think the problem is not insufficent money from lerner, just O'Neill's reticence or inability to spend it on a decent striker. I agree that a £30m player is highly unlikely, but there has to be something between that and the £3.5m and £4.5m he spent on Heskey and Harewood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 I'm sorry but what's the point in banging on about wanting something if it's not possible do you know if it's possible or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 The General has said time and time again that the funds are there if O'Neill requests them. I think the problem is not insufficent money from lerner, just O'Neill's reticence or inability to spend it on a decent striker. I agree that a £30m player is highly unlikely, but there has to be something between that and the £3.5m and £4.5m he spent on Heskey and Harewood. Yes, it's called John Carew and to a slightly lesser extent Ashley Young, two players signed in the same window.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 I'm sorry but what's the point in banging on about wanting something if it's not possible do you know if it's possible or not? Yes actually I pretty much do, I would be quite willing to bet my mortgage that there isn't a single striker out there who warrants being in the £20-£30M value bracket that would be actually interested in linking up with us. If you think otherwise then I want whatever you're on....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 The General has said time and time again that the funds are there if O'Neill requests them. I think the problem is not insufficent money from lerner, just O'Neill's reticence or inability to spend it on a decent striker. I agree that a £30m player is highly unlikely, but there has to be something between that and the £3.5m and £4.5m he spent on Heskey and Harewood. Yes, it's called John Carew and to a slightly lesser extent Ashley Young, two players signed in the same window.......... Ashley Young is a winger, and therefore irrelevant to the discussion at hand, and Carew's official cost was £4.5m as well, the same as Harewood. So, signing players between £4.5m and £30m, surely has to be a possibility. Even for somebody with as poor a record of signing strikers like O'Neill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Don't think our strikers are that bad, but won't take us to that next level. Heskey will for next year or so, will be very good squad player. Agbonlahor key striker, think he has a place in the team if we moved to top 4 team. Carew, going downhill fast IMO. We've got decent strikers but nothing special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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