economic situation is dire

[tonyh29]

seems the next US president is with us as well

our concern has not been over the position that the UK has taken, it's whether the decisions made by other members of the eurozone countries within the EU will work

[drat01]

In another example of how this Gvmt works in its desire to cut and slash and bollox to the consequences it was announced that changes to introduce Universal Credit will mean that Child Tax Credit additions for disabled children will fall from £52.21 per week to £25.95 per week – a loss of £1366 per year, or £20,000 over the course of a childhood.

They really are a nasty bunch of a'holes at times

[mjmooney]

In another example of how this Gvmt works in its desire to cut and slash and bollox to the consequences it was announced that changes to introduce Universal Credit will mean that Child Tax Credit additions for disabled children will fall from £52.21 per week to £25.95 per week – a loss of £1366 per year, or £20,000 over the course of a childhood.

They really are a nasty bunch of a'holes at times

"at times"???

You're being far too nice about them.

[tonyh29]

Child Tax Credit additions for disabled children

I can't find this story on the web (other than Robo's facebook ) ... only one I can find is a story about cuts to ALL Child Tax Credit , as opposed to "disabled " children only

could you post a link please

[Ads]

Do you think the the lib dem voters are happy propping up a Torie government in this coalition?

I read an article in the Guardian this morning suggesting that 50% of Lib Dem voters support Cameron's position.

It’s increasingly clear that despite Miliband’s gesticulating and angry finger waving, he would have done the same thing.

[tonyh29]

It’s increasingly clear that despite Miliband’s gesticulating and angry finger waving, he would have done the same thing.

that's' not true ... according to his spin doctors and twitter brigade he would not have signed but would have done an even better job with the negotiations :shock:

:crylaugh: :crylaugh:

was interesting that Ed didn't know this was his "answer" when it was put to him in the commons .....

[drat01]

Highest inflation rate in the EU for the UK so it seems. I suppose if some had their way not being in the EU would certainly help that stat as we would not have to compare ourselves to the others. Ah maybe that is what this is all about?

read an article in the Guardian this morning suggesting that 50% of Lib Dem voters support Cameron's position.

It’s increasingly clear that despite Miliband’s gesticulating and angry finger waving, he would have done the same thing.

Not at all, as normal the Tory supporters are really trying to make apples and oranges the same in order to prove a point. Milliband or any other leader who is not being pushed and paid by Eurosceptics would have taken a diplomatic stance that did not remove us from any negotiations. (and again the Ahh but Labour stance used to try and justify the Tory party?)

Also I am interested by your statement about LibDem supporters supporting Cameron - where is that please? I can't find it on the Grud web site = appreciate I may be looking in the wrong place.

What I did find what an article on the anger and outrage shown by LibDem's link and various other articles condemning Cameron and the Eurosceptic Tory party

I can't find this story on the web (other than Robo's facebook ) ... only one I can find is a story about cuts to ALL Child Tax Credit , as opposed to "disabled " children only

could you post a link please

Poor attempt Tony to try and discredit this in some way.

A simple google search shows lots of reports on it - have a read here for info link. Also have a look at the amendment that Tanni Grey-Thompson tried in the HOL

[Awol]

Milliband or any other leader who is not being pushed and paid by Eurosceptics would have taken a diplomatic stance that did not remove us from any negotiations.

This is hilarious. How exactly do you refuse to sign a treaty in a more diplomatic way? "Sorry guys, I can't do that, but would you like a biscuit instead?"

[Richard]

They really are a nasty bunch of a'holes at times

I remember times on here when people used to name call and aim such stuff at the previous government and where then told that in doing so they basically blew their argument out of the water as such things had no part in mature debate.

[mjmooney]

They really are a nasty bunch of a'holes at times

I remember times on here when people used to name call and aim such stuff at the previous government and where then told that in doing so they basically blew their argument out of the water as such things had no part in mature debate.

You smell.

[drat01]

Did anybody vote for this slimey worm who makes threats towards the United Kingdom? Does he have any form of democratic mandate? No? Well he'd best disappear back up his own rectum then.

did anyone vote for a ConDem Gvmt? No - so using your rules up their slimey arses they should go.

Labour and Lib Dem MP's, the EU mafia and their BBC fellow travellers are ignoring one simple truth; a clear majority of UK voters support Cameron's position.

:-) how laughable is that statement. How is that judged? by a flawed opinion poll? The fact, is quite simple and was proven time and time again yesterday by the misinformation spread primarily by Cameron et al and the Tory right press, was this a vote on joining the Euro? Was this a referendum on EU membership? Has Cameron admitted that he would have kept his veto options on the "Robin Hood" tax? Also I remember you calling the BBC a bastain of fairness when people like Nick Robinson betraying his Tory background was mentioned, how convenient you now change your view when they question Cameron and his motives and more importantly the damage it will do to the members of Joe Public, UK.

The EU has been put on notice that UK Plc no longer defines being a good European as simplying agreeing to whatever Germany and France tell us we have to do. Unless they want to force the hand of the political class and allow the Eurosceptic British public to end our EU membership they'd be wise to think very carefully before making any more threats.

It's like the UKIP and BNP manifesto are being quoted verbatim here. So Cameron et al is OK to make threats, or any UK politician for that matter, Lab, Lib Dem or Monster Raving Looney, but when the majority of "Johnny Foreigner" does so, protecting the EU and their own countries - 26-1 - that is somehow such a bad thing? Maybe if the inward insular looking Little Englander mentality was removed and understood that industry and everything that goes with it is multi-national things could move forward.

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Is there any need to be quite so rabid in your defence or attack in the nature of your posts?

It’s a simple enough choice; what would you, Ed Miliband have done, had you been in the hot seat with the need to make a decision. The answer, once you get behind the chest puffing, is the exact same thing, with an airy nod at “well, I’d have tried harder to negotiate or I’d have stayed at the table for longer”. I am not quite sure what Miliband could have done differently in the face of French obstinacy.

As for the Guardian article, it suggests that the people who elect the Lib-Dems, that ever dwindling coalition, are the 50% who back Cameron’s decision; along with the North, Midlands and Wales. In fact it was the South East, whom registered the least support, at 46%.

[Richard]

They really are a nasty bunch of a'holes at times

I remember times on here when people used to name call and aim such stuff at the previous government and where then told that in doing so they basically blew their argument out of the water as such things had no part in mature debate.

You smell.

Yes I do this morning. It is Pasha de Cartier (Fraicheur de menthe)

[snowychap]

Yes I do this morning. It is Pasha de Cartier (Fraicheur de menthe)

You europhile, you.

[Ads]

Did anybody vote for this slimey worm who makes threats towards the United Kingdom? Does he have any form of democratic mandate? No? Well he'd best disappear back up his own rectum then.

did anyone vote for a ConDem Gvmt? No - so using your rules up their slimey arses they should go.

I think that’s a fairly contrived insult there. It’s clear that Awol is pointing the finger squarely at the thoroughly insidious and explicitly anti-democratic nature of the EU, that here, another unelected and unaccounted for politico is given a soapbox at the expense of the taxpaying people of Europe.

I would have thought there would be complete unanimity amongst the people of this board in their disgust of how anti-democratic the EU is.

[Richard]

Yes I do this morning. It is Pasha de Cartier (Fraicheur de menthe)

You europhile, you.

[drat01]

Milliband or any other leader who is not being pushed and paid by Eurosceptics would have taken a diplomatic stance that did not remove us from any negotiations.

This is hilarious. How exactly do you refuse to sign a treaty in a more diplomatic way? "Sorry guys, I can't do that, but would you like a biscuit instead?"

As many and not just Labour, have said by taking the actions that Cameron did, he removed any negotiations completely. Your desire to support Cameron and any sort of questioning of his frankly absurd and somewhat concerning ideals is clouding any sort of reasoning here.

This was not about one "battle" winning a "war", what Cameron has done is simply stupid in any sort of negotiations, especially when held the trump cards on veto's if he wanted to play them for elements like the "Robin Hood" tax (conveniently ignored in any sort of justification).

As a result the UK as it stands today is in a lot weaker position in trying to secure stability in markets it depends on, a lot weaker in negotiations on trade and regulations in areas that are vital for economic prosperity of this country. So much of this was to pander to the far right of his party. He is the UK Prime Minister first and foremost and should have the national interests as his primary aim, not those of a minority Gvmt

[tonyh29]

I can't find this story on the web (other than Robo's facebook ) ... only one I can find is a story about cuts to ALL Child Tax Credit , as opposed to "disabled " children only

could you post a link please

Poor attempt Tony to try and discredit this in some way.

A simple google search shows lots of reports on it - have a read here for info link. Also have a look at the amendment that Tanni Grey-Thompson tried in the HOL

why was it a poor attempt ? specifically targeting disabled children/families is appalling and i'd wanted to find out more about it

I'd typed in tax cuts and disabled and countless other permutations and couldn't find anything ... I'd expected it to be all over the news but for some reason it isn't ... in an era where polar bears are filmed in a zoo instead of the wild I like to check these sources for myself

[drat01]

Is there any need to be quite so rabid in your defence or attack in the nature of your posts?

It’s a simple enough choice; what would you, Ed Miliband have done, had you been in the hot seat with the need to make a decision. The answer, once you get behind the chest puffing, is the exact same thing, with an airy nod at “well, I’d have tried harder to negotiate or I’d have stayed at the table for longer”. I am not quite sure what Miliband could have done differently in the face of French obstinacy.

As for the Guardian article, it suggests that the people who elect the Lib-Dems, that ever dwindling coalition, are the 50% who back Cameron’s decision; along with the North, Midlands and Wales. In fact it was the South East, whom registered the least support, at 46%.

:-) Rabid, we don't have that disease in the UK. Grrr you Euro disease infested people

As Milliband, and MANY MANY others have said Cameron played it completely and utterly wrong and has now left us a lot weaker in the long run. He had to keep his back benchers happy at whatever cost. He did not act as PM he acted as the leader of a bunch of Eurosceptics

Again if you can point at the Grud article it would be good to read, especially the wording of the question. The online version usually covers all that is printed

[tonyh29]

He is the UK Prime Minister first and foremost and should have the national interests as his primary aim

you mean like get trounced in a General election but still refusing to stand down :winkold: