economic situation is dire

[ianrobo1]

I blame your socialist government of the last 11 years

so Labour is to blame for the recessions in every G7 country and the whole of Europe

Christ I wished the UK had that much influence ?

Labour were responsible for Lehman's crashing and Bof A running to the fed ?

where did the Credit crunch start ?

Wall Street or the Square mile ?

which country went into recession first US or UK

let me give you a clue

it wasn't the UK

Germany - a few centre right governments predicted by the IMF to have a fall in GDP or just 0.3% better than us ?

Americal under Reps these past 8 years a fall of more than 2%

need I go on to prove just how wrong you are

to repeat the mantra

ALL TO BLAME

[snowychap]

I blame your socialist government of the last 11 years

Which government was that?

so Labour is to blame for the recessions in every G7 country

No. Just for adopting (on the whole) Tory attitudes to business, regulation, home-ownership, &c.

[leviramsey]

The recession is a necessary correction. It is forcing ill-conceived and poorly run companies to collapse or restructure, and it is compelling consumers to save again. Protecting those overgrown institutions and encouraging more unsustainable consumption will only delay doomsday and make it worse. It's better to endure some pain now than to endure even more pain tomorrow.

this guy would not be a right winger would he

(I could have formatted the quote better, I apologize)

It's a hypothetical argument, as the preceding and succeeding paragraphs evidence:

Consider the following argument:

.

.

.

There's two things you should notice about that counternarrative. The first is that it sounds pretty radical. The second is that it isn't as radical as it sounds. It doesn't require you be a thoroughgoing libertarian opposed to all intervention in the economy. An ordinary [left-winger] could accept it, arguing for federal efforts to ease individual pain—unemployment insurance, retraining subsidies, even direct income grants—while refusing to shore up failing institutions. You might think that would be a common position on the left: help for the dispossessed, not one dime for corporations.

And the left-wing argument advanced is basically mine: now is not the time to dismantle what welfare state, and it's also not the time to bail out the financial sector (at the very least not via capital injection, liquidity injection into certain securities markets is preferable if a bailout is needed).

Imagine, me being further to the left than ianrobo...

[Gringo]

socialist government

:bonk:

[Gringo]

ALL TO BLAME

But this collective responsibility, which so evaded political comment during the boom years when it was all down to domestic financial prudence, means that all to blame so we absolve everyone? Or all to blame and we'll just target those sections we don't like? All to blame, but anyone who apportions any of that blame on the govt is met with ALL TO BLAME (apart from gordo, who was just a victim of circumstance).

As said on the previous page, the public at large and the media have tired of the excuses and the failing solutions. Do anything, do something - as long as we can keep the blame in the florida trailer parks.

[Richard]

so Labour is to blame for the recessions in every G7 country and the whole of Europe

But Labour are to blame for engaging in economic polices which have led to the country being in the worst position than any other to deal with the recession, according to the IMF (wonder if we'll have to go crawling to them like we did in 1979), for ensurring that it's going to take us 20 years Ian, 20 years to pay for this pay for the huge debt they have saddled us with

Borrow, borrow , borrow seems to be the mantra and advice from the govt, borrow now and dont even worry about paying it back.

I'm afraid you cannot excuse the actions of this government with the "oh but it's a global thing"

In that case our "boom" of the last ten years, was that a global thing too?

[Clarry]

I'm wondering how our societies will react to a bad recession.

I'm sure in the 20s and 30s people were just pleased to put food on their plates and a roof over their heads.

Will modern society react more brattishly at having to forgo Sky subscriptions, 2 holidays a year and a nice car?

[drat01]

That is a superb question Clarry - when we had a serious downturn in the economy under Thatcher people became a lot more selfish and the me-me-me attitude that you see some parents still installing in their kids today was born.

There will be a choice - a collective fix to this or a I'm allright Jack view. What has become the norm for a lot of people, will now become the exception.

After the depression of the early 20th century there was a rise in right wing politics will we see the same?

[Clarry]

And to be positive, will there be more innovation and a shift in music and entertainment?

[Gringo]

I'm wondering how our societies will react to a bad recession.

Clarkson predicts the 'end days'

Unusual greek riots

Usual french riots

British jobs for british workers strikes

Globalisation is being killed by:

* the advance of employment protectionism.

* Global funding is collapsing as financial protectionism takes hold and banks repatriate their loans from foreign parts and begin again to look at country credit quality and not just counterparty standing.

* Import tariffs will be next - and I would expect obama to be one of the first to start that ball rolling.

The I'm alright Jack mentality as referenced above has been rolling for three decades now - it will not turn around easily.

[Gringo]

The recession is a necessary correction. It is forcing ill-conceived and poorly run companies to collapse or restructure, and it is compelling consumers to save again. Protecting those overgrown institutions and encouraging more unsustainable consumption will only delay doomsday and make it worse. It's better to endure some pain now than to endure even more pain tomorrow.

this guy would not be a right winger would he

typical right wing response in a recession

do **** all

never mind it is right wing free market deregulated markets that caused this

'price worth paying' © Norman Lamont

And the Friday afternoon quiz is:

Which poster would like a card?, LV

[Richard]

Gringo, whats teh prize? Like to see if it's worth winning before entering the quiz

[Gringo]

A night out for two at trim's bus shelter

[Supertone]

Just found out I am getting a 10% pay cut, starting 1st March. At least I still have job, I suppose.

[snowychap]

Gordon Brown orders thousands of new council houses

The biggest council house building programme for decades was ordered by Gordon Brown yesterday as he urged town halls to rescue the construction industry and help to kick-start the economy.

Treasury rules that have stopped local authorities from building social housing should be relaxed to allow councils to borrow more money and to keep the proceeds from rents and sales, the Prime Minister said.

The changes, which could be introduced within months, would help to reverse the dramatic fall in homes built by councils since Margaret Thatcher introduced the right to buy policy in the early 1980s. Last year only 375 council homes were built.

Thousands of houses could be constructed by councils in the next few years on land that already has planning permission but where cash-strapped private developers hit by the recession have pulled out of projects.

There have been intense discussions on Labour’s National Executive Committee about how to help the 4.5 million people waiting for social housing and to get the construction industry back to work, The Times has learnt.

Mr Brown has the support of Margaret Beckett, the Housing Minister, in pushing through new regulations, according to government sources, but Alistair Darling, the Chancellor, is said to be resisting proposals that could add billions of pounds to public debt.

Mr Brown told council leaders in London yesterday that town halls had a vital role to play in getting Britain out of the recession. “In the past we have placed restrictions on local authorities delivering social housing,” he told a conference held by the New Local Government Network. “But, today, let me be clear: if local authorities can convince us that they can deliver quickly, and cost effectively, more of the housing that Britain needs . . . then we will be prepared to give them our full backing and put aside anything that stands in their way.”

...more on link

I think I can see one slight problem with the plan (see highlight).

Other than that, the relaxation of rules regarding social housing stock is a good thing.

Something else to point out though: in relation to this demand for housing, back in 2005, Gordon received this warning - Use empty houses.

Gordon Brown has ignored the potential of Britain's 850,000 empty homes to tackle the affordable housing crisis, a Government funded charity has said.

Mr Brown announced this week that he wants to build three million new homes by 2020 but the Empty Homes Agency, an independent charity, points out that some of these new homes already exist.

David Ireland, chief executive of the charity, said: "Gordon Brown is right to make housing the Government's top priority. But he has missed a trick by overlooking the potential of empty homes."

There are 282,000 long-term homes in England that have been empty for more than six months. Many are empty because speculators buy and leave properties empty to cash in on capital gains, says the Agency.

Others are empty because they need repairs that the owner cannot afford or is unwilling to make.

...more on link

An excerpt for this charity's newsletter in December (after the last budget):

The box of financial tricks opened in last week’s pre-Budget report was welcomed by most in the housing world.

There was one man, however, who was sorely disappointed by the absence of help for the particular problem he is tasked with tackling: vacant properties.

‘I’m afraid I found nothing,’ said David Ireland, the chief executive of the Empty Homes Agency, at his organisation’s annual conference last week.

‘[i found] a fund to buy up flats from bankrupted builders. A fund to try and get housing associations to try and build more homes. Nothing to address this problem. I feel almost a sense of anger about that.’

The agency estimates that there are 939,000 vacant homes in the UK, a figure which is likely soar past the 1 million mark next year. The sheer scale of the problem is such that more, much more needs to be done to address it, Mr Ireland said.

‘We have got overwhelming vacancies and overwhelming housing need,’ he said. ‘There is something wrong with the housing system that delivers this.’

The agency has a number of ideas about what should be done. These range from allowing short-term occupancy of homes that have been left empty to allow major regeneration schemes to proceed, to holding fire on demolition schemes in market renewal areas until the land is bought up by a developer.

[drat01]

Yawnnnnnn - posting about posters - I thought that was frowned upon but only when it suits obviously

Anyway back to the WORLD problems, it seems like Iceland could be fast-tracked into the EU

BBC Story

Iceland 'could join EU by 2011'

Anti-government protest in Reykjavik, 24 Jan 09

The wave of street protests is a dramatic change for Iceland

Iceland could be fast-tracked to join the EU within two years, to help the small Nordic state out of its economic crisis, a top EU official says.

Enlargement Commissioner Olli Rehn said that if Iceland applied soon, it could join at the same time as Croatia, which is expected to become a member by 2011.

But Iceland is yet to decide if it wants to join the 27-nation bloc.

Icelandic politicians say they expect to reach a deal on Friday on a new centre-left coalition government.

Iceland's banking system collapsed in October, causing its currency, the krona, to plummet and prompting the government to arrange $10bn in emergency financing from the International Monetary Fund and several European countries.

The crisis has stunned a nation that enjoyed one of the world's highest living standards during the stock market boom.

ICELAND'S WOES

October 2008 - Government takes control of three largest banks

20 November - IMF approves $2.1bn (£1.4bn) loan for Iceland

26 November - Annual inflation rate hits record 17.1%

20 January 2009 - Economy forecast to shrink by 9.6% in 2009

23 January - PM Geir Haarde calls snap election for 9 May

26 January - Government resigns following breakdown of coalition

Timeline: Iceland's crisis

Icelandic crisis: Your comments

Reality bites in Iceland

Social Affairs Minister Johanna Sigurdardottir is widely expected to be named as an interim prime minister - and would become the world's first openly gay politician to hold such a post.

President Olafur Ragnar Grimsson asked the Social Democrats and the opposition Left-Green Party to form a new government to replace the administration of Geir Haarde. He resigned as prime minister on Monday following angry public protests.

The BBC's Oana Lungescu in Brussels says Iceland has already adopted two-thirds of EU rules, so its accession talks could go much faster than the five years Croatia has spent negotiating. Croatia is widely expected to join the EU by 2011.

But Iceland still has to make up its mind to apply and the Left-Green Party, favoured to win early elections in May, has so far campaigned against joining the EU, mainly because of concerns about fisheries policy.

Swapping the battered krona for the euro could also take several years, our correspondent says.

Iceland would first need to be a member of the EU and then prove it can comply with the strict discipline of the single currency.

Iceland's Social Democrats want to replace the governor of the central bank, whom many blame for the country's sudden lurch from prosperity to economic meltdown.

They also reportedly want to hold a referendum on EU membership.

The economy is forecast to shrink by almost 10% this year.

Interesting - would the same criteria be applied to say one of the eastern European countries on their applications?

[Jon]

A night out for two at trim's bus shelter

Well thats got to be worth having a go.

I chose option D?

me too. Is the shelter big enough for 2?

[Gringo]

Yawnnnnnn - posting about posters - I thought that was frowned upon but only when it suits obviously

You're not allowed to quote other people's posts now?

leave the modding to the mods.

[snowychap]

I chose option D?

me too. Is the shelter big enough for 2?

Well there was a whole party going on there the other day.

I think there are a couple of permanent residents.

[thetrees]

I'm wondering how our societies will react to a bad recession.

I'm sure in the 20s and 30s people were just pleased to put food on their plates and a roof over their heads.

Will modern society react more brattishly at having to forgo Sky subscriptions, 2 holidays a year and a nice car?

Reasonable thinking.

Are you the Archbishop of Canterbury?

Would you be free for employment around May 2010?

There's a bloke called Gordon whose job is going and I reckon that your common sense thinking makes you far more qualified than him.