tonyh29 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 never said anything about this model nor did anything about it. the governor of the bank of England and Brown clashed many a time over it .. it's well known they do not get on There was a lot said about the creation of the FSA , just because you didn't read it doesn't mean it doesn't exist ..I'm sure there is a lot that goes on inside your industry that outsiders don't know about , for example ... Odious people who play the game of personal attack as their main form of justification for election. Simple really Tony Why do you miss the point? no point missed , just double standards by your post ... an attack on Brown's mis management of the country is Personal but an attack on Cameron is Ok .. which party was that during a by-election instead of focusing on issues , ran there election campaign on personal issues ..focused on the fact the Tory candidate went to public school and was a "toff" ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Saying someone got something wrong is not hindsight - it's a judgement on performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 the governor of the bank of England and Brown clashed many a time over it .. it's well known they do not get on There was a lot said about the creation of the FSA , just because you didn't read it doesn't mean it doesn't exist ..I'm sure there is a lot that goes on inside your industry that outsiders don't know about , for example ... Tony - you are conveniently missing the point again - where are these people now, where were they then and what alternatives did they offer then and now? There are so many "experts" who basically are frauds. They had no idea this was going to hit the world wide economy, if they did why didn't they say or do something about it. There was enough people making fortunes out of the economy at the time or was that the main reason they kept quiet? And it is not double standards at all and you know it. The Tory party people you mentioned are perfect examples of the sad state of UK politics today where its more about image and trying to point score over the opposition rather than offering ideas and solutions. You seemingly like that style of political structure, I don't. If these wonderful people could come up with viable alternatives and different policies that explained the benefits and costs then we would be getting somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Saying someone got something wrong is not hindsight - it's a judgement on performance.Eh? Being wise after an event is hindsight. It's like Andy Gray as a football pundit, he never ever plays a bad ball or misses a goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gringo Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Gordo says it's none of his fault. Media are saying it obviously is, because he made decisions both in terms of spending, borrowing and regulation which contributed. None of the commentators are saying they would have done something different, they are all pointing at his squeamish failure to accept that he got stuff wrong and to continue to repeat the mantras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 The Tory party people you mentioned are perfect examples of the sad state of UK politics today so Mandelson , Darling , Smith & Brown etc are a credit to this nation are they ? :shock: notice how the London Mayor is getting on with the job and making a good go at it ..kinda kills your argument in one swoop your views on Cameron are well known , well documented that they stem from his privileged background .. He will be a good prime Minister for this country ... I seriously doubt anyone will look back at Brown and say that Image ... a supporter of new labour moaning about politics being nothing more than image ... that has to be the funniest thing I've ever read on the Internet .... I think this ought to go in hall of fame for future generations to cry laughing at .... what next from you , The Tories are a party of Spin ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 o Mandelson , Darling , Smith & Brown etc are a credit to this nation are they ? Tony - please read what is in the posts mate and frankly your opinions on why I do not like Cameron are so way off the mark they are untrue. It's obvious that you are on some sort of crusade today so I will leave you to it - adios amigo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Gordo says it's none of his fault. Media are saying it obviously is, because he made decisions both in terms of spending, borrowing and regulation which contributed. None of the commentators are saying they would have done something different, they are all pointing at his squeamish failure to accept that he got stuff wrong and to continue to repeat the mantras.I always like the post implementation reviews that we get involved with at work and how they map out. The ones that are a waste of space are those full of "you should have done this" and "you should have done that" bollox. The ones that work are those that look at the issues and see why they happened and how we can avoid them in the future. To avoid them we have to have alternatives and show why they would have succeeded and how they would have been resourced. Understanding the reasoning behind any decision is the key. Basically if you didn't raise any objections at the time why do you do it now As said the political make up of the UK and the media is one of condemnation first with little or no action or alternative. Maybe the Ozzies have it right and we do like a whinge and moan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I always like the post implementation reviews that we get involved with at work and how they map out. funny enough I attended a lot of them whilst working for an investment bank .. other funny thing is you discounted them from the argument because you are unaware of them .. :? Understanding the reasoning behind any decision is the key. Basically if you didn't raise any objections at the time why do you do it now so when your boss says this is our target and we estimate we can get £100m of revenue form this area , do you A). Think yeah lets got for it we have the tools and the skills I don't see why we can't achieve it or do you tell your boss he's an idiot and you will never achieve it without ever having given it a go .. however down track it turns out your boss's £100m target is not going to be achievable maybe he didn't implement all the necessary measures ..chances are you will end up with a new boss , I don't think the boss will stand there and say ... it's all your fault as none of you challenged me at the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 Gordo says it's none of his fault correct Gringo it is not personally his fault this is the point it is the fault of all economies who followed the same model of loser and loser regulation.All countries in trouble with their banks allowed this to occur under whatever colour. Do you really think if the Tories had been in power they would have done anything different. Over int he states both the Dems and Reps did it. A few months OK, you had Osbourne going around claiming he would reduce public spending by cutting red tape, you don;t hear that any more do you ? less and less regulation only breeds complancey and contempt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villal Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Senator Warns White House Will 'Create Crisis' and 'Panic' to Push Stimulus Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., criticizes mainstream media for not reporting loads of pork in proposed legislation. Is the new Obama administration taking cues from the Bush administration to get Congress to act? It certainly seemed that way to, South Carolina’s junior Republican senator, Jim DeMint. DeMint, speaking Jan. 27 at The Heritage Foundation in Washington, D.C., explained the Obama administration will “create crisis and widespread panic” just like its predecessor in order to get Congress to act expeditiously “I’ve been around long enough to know whenever someone tells me I have to make a decision right now, my response is no,” DeMint said. “That clears it up right away and I think more and more the Bush administration and now this administration knows that they’re not going to get a quick reaction out of Congress unless they create crisis and widespread panic. And that’s going to be their M.O. to get Congress to act.” Another senator, James Inhofe, R-Okla., explained the Bush administration used a similar tactic, under the direction of former Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, to get the $700-billion TARP bailout bill passed by Congress back on Oct. 4, 2008. DeMint said some Republicans now regret they voted for the TARP package, even though there is no way to gauge what might have happened had it not been passed. more here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 less and less regulation only breeds complancey and contempt Indeed. Who removed the perfectly fine regulatory powers from the BoE, created the FSA and then refused to give it any teeth? Answers on a P45 to clueless of Downing Street please.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 so we are not in a crisis and panic mode now ? this is the worse for two generations I think actions have to be done now, the consequences can only be seen later for good or bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 less and less regulation only breeds complancey And yet as recently as summer last year, Ian, when we were discussing gas and electricity price regulation, you were saying that stricter regulation couldn't be imposed because the City wouldn't allow it. This is not to have a go at you because I do understand where you were coming from (though I did question why they wouldn't allow it as it had only stopped in 2002). My point was that, as you had demonstrated by what you said, some people may have thought that 'the City' was too strong a force to regulate. The lighter touch regulation was either something which the government wished to promote or it is something which they assumed they must just go along with because those forces against it were too strong and because everyone else was doing similar things. Do you really think if the Tories had been in power they would have done anything different. Perhaps. I think they would have tried to have even less regulation but whether they would have succeeded would have been another question altogether. John Hutton said the following in a debate in 2005 about deregulation: There are many people who would argue that the regulatory burden actually increased under the previous Conservative Government. Sadly for the right hon. Gentleman, some of them are leading Conservatives. The former Chancellor of the Exchequer, the right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr. Clarke), referred to the subject of deregulation in The Daily Telegraph shortly after leaving office. I notice that all these reminiscences and insights occur only when Conservatives leave office. The right hon. and learned Gentleman said: "We kept trying, we never really succeeded" in deregulating. Mr. Michael Portillo, another leading Conservative and a former Treasury Minister, said when he left office that "we were rather notable regulators. We passed volumes of new rules and laws interfering with almost every aspect of business and social life." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Due to a severe lack of job security and the fear that if I get the push there are next to no jobs in my field around I have sold my car in favour a cheap run around for a few months. If the worst comes to the worst it'll keep me going a little longer until hopefully things improve. Anyone else taken proactive steps incase the worst happens to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarry Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I know someone who has rented his flat out and sodded off to Thailand because he can live on the beach for a year next to nothing. But he's used to having no money, he's an actor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villal Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 so we are not in a crisis and panic mode now ? this is the worse for two generations I think actions have to be done now, the consequences can only be seen later for good or bad I don't think theres any doubt that we are in crisis However, I think what it refers too here is the threat of martial law witnessed by senators just prior to the passing of the bailout bill. youtube link here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Anyone else taken proactive steps incase the worst happens to them? Yes, In April i'm moving to the Middle East for the next five to ten years. Hopefully after that my own country will be in some sort of order and if not I'll be joining Mr Rogers in NZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Anyone else taken proactive steps incase the worst happens to them? Yes, In April i'm moving to the Middle East for the next five to ten years. Hopefully after that my own country will be in some sort of order and if not I'll be joining Mr Rogers in NZ. Sounds very attractive, how did you get involved in that? Job offer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Anyone else taken proactive steps incase the worst happens to them? Yes, In April i'm moving to the Middle East for the next five to ten years. Hopefully after that my own country will be in some sort of order and if not I'll be joining Mr Rogers in NZ. Sounds very attractive, how did you get involved in that? Job offer? Yep, fortunately for me my company are taking a kicking in the current UK market and my Director has agreed that an office out here (Oman) will give us a lifeboat over the next few years. I volunteered to get it up and running. It's fair to say the locals have greatly changed my views on many things and reference Rob's thread, you don't get people getting kicked to death out here. Good luck though mate, I hope the worst doesn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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