Risso Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Can you trust accountants? Is there anything in there that you're linking to in particular? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I would hazard a guess at "DEBATE: Can accountants be trusted?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Ah, that wasn't showing first time round for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Can you trust accountants? There are crooks and bad people in every profession, and every walk of life. I use an accountant for my businesses (I don't make enough personally to have a need for one). He gives good advice and support to my businesses, and I trust him without question. I also think that he earns the money that I pay him. I use a local firm though. I am not too enamoured with the BDOs and PWCLs of this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Who the chuff are PWCL, and why don't you like them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Who the chuff are PWCL, and why don't you like them? Price Waterhouse met Coopers Lybrand, fell in love, and married. Along the way they discovered there was a trend for using lower case for names to look cool and edgy, but couldn't quite get it right, and called themselves PricewaterhouseCoopers. Now called PwC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (I know who they are Peter, I used to work for them. They do struggle with lower and upper case letters though, as their logo is pwc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Who the chuff are PWCL, and why don't you like them? I don't particularly dislike them, it's just that my only experience of the 'big' firms is all bullshitting time wasters . I am sure that in reality they are just like the banks, where some staff are brilliant and effective while others are complete tossers. You just need to strike lucky I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Who the chuff are PWCL, and why don't you like them? I don't particularly dislike them, it's just that my only experience of the 'big' firms is all bullshitting time wasters . I am sure that in reality they are just like the banks, where some staff are brilliant and effective while others are complete tossers. You just need to strike lucky I guess Pretty much like every job in the world then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I think people might take accounting bodies and those accountants who get the arse over accusations of impropriety within the profession more seriously if they were less dismissive of the situations where it would appear the profession has a case to answer (especially at high levels). My personal experience of dealing with auditors, though, is what one would expect - people who very much do things by the book and would return your schedule of WIP if it were even slightly out. Perhaps the dodgy stuff had already taken place between the FD and the auditor head honcho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonno_2004 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 My personal experience of dealing with auditors, though, is what one would expect - people who very much do things by the book and would return your schedule of WIP if it were even slightly out. Perhaps the dodgy stuff had already taken place between the FD and the auditor head honcho. I can honestly say in my experience I've never witnessed any of the so-called "dodgy stuff" and I'm constantly working long **** hours at the head honchos request to make sure all your WIP schedules reconcile without exception 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 My personal experience of dealing with auditors, though, is what one would expect - people who very much do things by the book and would return your schedule of WIP if it were even slightly out. Perhaps the dodgy stuff had already taken place between the FD and the auditor head honcho. I can honestly say in my experience I've never witnessed any of the so-called "dodgy stuff" and I'm constantly working long **** hours at the head honchos request to make sure all your WIP schedules reconcile without exception You're not in the right placements, yet, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 That's the problem with auditing. I don't think there's any deep-rooted desire for the Big 4 to aid big business in wrong doing. Instead audit tests are so boring that people just lie and make up the answers. Agree 50 loan balances to the signed schedules? Bollocks, check the first two, tick the next 48, then waste the rest of the day on Facebook or VT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 So they're just slack and incompetent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 No I'm, I mean, they're not. Them, over there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Pretty much like every job in the world then. But the point being made in the article (and elsewhere, like Bill Black, Michael Hudson, lots of others) is not about the ordinary bloke at the accountancy equivalent of a coal face, but the role of the big 4 in particular, and their "controlling minds" or partners and senior staff, in aiding and abetting the widespread, systematic and deliberate fraud which lay behind the financial crash engineered by the bankers. Fraser asks was it collusion or incompetence, as it would seem it must be one or the other. Most jobs don't involve such a massively destructive set of outcomes for other people. And since the underpinning principle behind audit and accountancy is meant to be trust, it's all the more serious if that trust is shown to be misplaced. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonno_2004 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 My personal experience of dealing with auditors, though, is what one would expect - people who very much do things by the book and would return your schedule of WIP if it were even slightly out. Perhaps the dodgy stuff had already taken place between the FD and the auditor head honcho. I can honestly say in my experience I've never witnessed any of the so-called "dodgy stuff" and I'm constantly working long **** hours at the head honchos request to make sure all your WIP schedules reconcile without exception You're not in the right placements, yet, then. I thought you'd be surprised there is such a thing as WIP on the IOM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I thought you'd be surprised there is such a thing as WIP on the IOM I hadn't looked at it like that. Very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Pretty much like every job in the world then. But the point being made in the article (and elsewhere, like Bill Black, Michael Hudson, lots of others) is not about the ordinary bloke at the accountancy equivalent of a coal face, but the role of the big 4 in particular, and their "controlling minds" or partners and senior staff, in aiding and abetting the widespread, systematic and deliberate fraud which lay behind the financial crash engineered by the bankers. Fraser asks was it collusion or incompetence, as it would seem it must be one or the other. Most jobs don't involve such a massively destructive set of outcomes for other people. And since the underpinning principle behind audit and accountancy is meant to be trust, it's all the more serious if that trust is shown to be misplaced. I don't believe for one second that there's 'widespread, systemic and deliberate fraud" that the Big 4 accountancy firms are complicit in. There's just too much regulation, and for the Big 4 to be involved then the professional bodies, who review audit engagements, would be too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 On another angle, but relevant to the discussion, when assessing companies for credit (we do not use credit insurance for UK business) one of the checks is whether the accounts are audited. This is an immediate tick if they are audited by one of the big houses, as our view is that they would not sign off on anything dodgy. If they are audited by a firm that we haven 't heard of, then we check that firm out as well, before applying the tick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts