Why are England players bad managers?

[Spoony]

Just occurred to me yesterday that (1) generally it seems English footballers don’t make good managers (there’s so few exceptions like Potter, all the rest of the world’s elite teams are not managed by Englishmen) and (2) more broadly all former England players are terrible managers and there isn’t a single exception that occurs to me.

Why is that?

[a m ole]

34 minutes ago, Spoony said:

Just occurred to me yesterday that (1) generally it seems English footballers don’t make good managers (there’s so few exceptions like Potter, all the rest of the world’s elite teams are not managed by Englishmen) and (2) more broadly all former England players are terrible managers and there isn’t a single exception that occurs to me.

Why is that?

Playing the game at the top level and managing at it are very different skills. 

[Spoony]

1 minute ago, a m ole said:

Playing the game at the top level and managing at it are very different skills. 

Granted but there’s a seriously lack of quality English managers. The best all come from Germany, Italy and Spain. 

[Davkaus]

I wonder if part of it is that it's much harder to get a chance (and to succeed) in the PL as an English manager than it is in other domestic leagues, due to the wealth and ability to attract talent to the division

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, Spoony said:

Just occurred to me yesterday that (1) generally it seems English footballers don’t make good managers (there’s so few exceptions like Potter, all the rest of the world’s elite teams are not managed by Englishmen) and (2) more broadly all former England players are terrible managers and there isn’t a single exception that occurs to me.

Why is that?

because the media give them an easy time so they assume they are doing a good job and dont actually learn though in Lampard defence he seems to have done some work over the summer unlike our clown. Is also an arrogance that they should be given top jobs and not work up the ladder

Compared to Potter and Howe probably the 2 best English managers at the moment who had to work the way through the leagues and are happy to learn and improve the trade

[VillaChris]

36 minutes ago, Spoony said:

Granted but there’s a seriously lack of quality English managers. The best all come from Germany, Italy and Spain. 

Howe's a decent manager imo, I think he could manage abroad reasonably comfortably. Potter doing well in his early Chelsea games.

General problem is imo they're poor readers of the game as it develops. Too much of backs to wall mentality and trusting teams to come through that while the other one will be making 2-3 changes regardless.

We always had that issue with Dean but at least he had the excuse of weak sub benches, no such excuse for the current joker. Southgate also massively failed with changing things once Croatia had gained control of the world cup SF and of course no subs when Italy were getting on strong in the second half of euros final (Mancini taking off Immobile and playing Chiesa/Insigne as false 9s completely fooled Southgate if you watch second half back).

They just don't tweak things quickly enough when pendulum of game is swinging so that's a failure of the coaching system as I can't believe they'd all ignore it if it's being taught. 

 

[VillaChris]

38 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

I wonder if part of it is that it's much harder to get a chance (and to succeed) in the PL as an English manager than it is in other domestic leagues, due to the wealth and ability to attract talent to the division

Italy is a very good league in promoting managers. Sarri, Inzaghi, Allegri, Conte, Giampaolo, Gaspierini and a few more all got CL/european experience after doing good jobs at smaller clubs. Germany traditionally always been good aswell outside of Bayern aswell.

It's just a consquence of so many prem clubs now being foreign owned so always going to look outside these shores if the people in charge have worked/lived around the world and so no stake to promote domestic talent.

[HanoiVillan]

31 minutes ago, Zatman said:

because the media give them an easy time so they assume they are doing a good job and dont actually learn though in Lampard defence he seems to have done some work over the summer unlike our clown. Is also an arrogance that they should be given top jobs and not work up the ladder

Compared to Potter and Howe probably the 2 best English managers at the moment who had to work the way through the leagues and are happy to learn and improve the trade

I don't think the bolded makes much sense, or not for more than a few weeks anyway. If someone is not very good at managing, I dunno, the HR team in a medium-sized paper product firm, then people giving them flattery and pretending they're better than they are might be able to work for quite a long time. Football, on the other hand, consists of televised matches roughly once per week and an industry of amateur and professional analysis of every aspect of those games. It's also a zero-sum competition where exactly half of the teams must finish in the bottom half of the distribution every year. There really isn't anywhere to hide for very long. 

I'm not sure the 'arrogantly expecting a top job' thesis is very convincing either. The person everyone used to say this about ended up taking a job in League 2 and doing well; the lower divisions are full of English managers attempting to work their way up the pyramid. Arrogance is only a convincing explanation if we think that someone like Gerrard 'should' be a better manager than someone like Steven Schumacher or whoever, but if playing and managing are just completely different skills then the problem must be clubs not promoting good managers through the pyramid rather than former top players 'arrogantly' waiting for a top-flight job.