Universal Basic Income

[icouldtelltheworld]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

I think also that reforming business behaviour (hard as the fight may be) is tackling the problem, whereas UBI is tackling the symptoms, but leaving the root cause untouched, to fester away. 

This is a statement I would largely agree with - perhaps I should try to take a more optimistic of things!

[blandy]

Just now, icouldtelltheworld said:

perhaps I should try to take a more optimistic of things!

In light of the direction of travel these past 30 whatever years, pessimism seems the natural outlook.

[sidcow]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-57120354

Universal basic income to be tested in Wales

A universal basic income scheme is to be trialled in Wales, meaning adults, regardless of their means, will receive a regular sum of money.

The idea is that this would cover the basic cost of living.

First Minister Mark Drakeford said the pilot would "see whether the promises that basic income holds out are genuinely delivered" in people's lives.

But the Conservatives said Wales should not become "a petri dish for failed left-wing policies".

Mr Drakeford said a pilot would "need to be carefully designed to make sure that it is genuinely adding income for the group of people we are able to work with".

He added: "It'll have to be a pilot because we don't have all the powers in our own hands to do it on our own.

"It'll have to be carefully crafted to make sure that it is affordable and that it does it within the powers available to the Senedd.

"We need to make an early start on designing the pilot to make sure that we have the best chance of operating a pilot that allows us to draw the conclusions from it that we would all want to see."

[Xela]

Interesting. No mention of figures yet though?

[sidcow]

2 minutes ago, Xela said:

Interesting. No mention of figures yet though?

It's Wales, I would think about a tenner a month would suffice. 

(puts on tin hat and waits for @chrisp65 to read the post) 

[bickster]

Starts looking for a house rental the other side of Chester....

[Xela]

2 minutes ago, bickster said:

Starts looking for a house rental the other side of Chester....

I quite fancy Llandudno...

[bickster]

Just now, Xela said:

I quite fancy Llandudno...

Nah, full of Scousers

 

[sidcow]

12 hours ago, Xela said:

I quite fancy Llandudno...

First place I drove when I passed my driving test. 

Got on the A5 and drove to the sea. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by sidcow

[sidcow]

On the subject in hand, I really feel this is smothering that will have to happen eventually. I think I wrote my thoughts on the future of AI and automation of jobs in the future. 

It may not be in the next 20 years, it may not be in the next 50 years.  But at some point a machine is going to be able to do everything a human can do and do. It 24 hours a day (less recharging maybe) and probably do it better too. 

At some point society is going to have to deal with mass unemployment. 

I know the argument will be made that this has been said before and not happened, but the realty is that when that has happened new/different jobs have been created that machines still can't do.  That won't be the case ultimately because there will be no new/different jobs that AI and machinery can't then do.  

I've seen some reports that we may have already passed that watershed moment. 

It's a matter of time till self driving cars and lorries hit our roads. I would be staggered if 50 years from now anyone will be driving taxis or lorries/delivery vans. 

[chrisp65]

Drakeford is really quite a frustrating character.

He’s announced they are looking at possibly scoping out a limited trial of UBI.

But he’s also been insistent Wales doesn’t need more powers, more tax raising tools, and doesn’t want more control over welfare budgets. He ultimately believes in a centralised union controlled from Westminster.

A limited trial of UBI which can only be funded by Westminster, when it isn’t Westminster’s idea, feels doomed to failure.

Having said that, ideas that have been pushed for the last 3, 4, 5 years are now beginning to get a little bit of traction. It looks like the community bank is going to go ahead, kill the commute was massively boosted by the pandemic and proved to be viable.

If we can have a county wide long term experiment with community banking, UBI, local co-ops, bricks n mortar start up hubs etc., then that could be interesting. But would need the level of control that Drakeford has already shied away from. Perhaps he’s going to try and get bold in his last 2 years in office and set up some sort of legacy. We can only live in hope.

I’d certainly like to see tens of millions invested in UBI now, so we can compare its economic impact with the hundreds of millions gifted to INEOS, Tata, Sony, Ford, Amazon, Aston Martin, Flybe, LG, Red Dragon, Technium...all of which have proved an economic bad call. We can’t keep gifting all our money to businesses that maximise profit by touring the world looking for the cheapest deal. There’s no future in borrowing money to enter a bidding war to race to the bottom.