Crewe and Nantwich byelection. Who will win?

[drat01]

Go on Tony admit you were wrong :-)

Let's see what happens

"Crewe and Nantwich Borough Council is made up of 56 Councillors representing 27 Wards with approximately one-third elected three years in four. Following the last Borough Council elections held on 1st May 2008 the table below shows the current political composition.

Conservative 28

Labour 17

Liberal Democrat 6

Nantwich Independent 3

Independent 2

TOTAL 56"

So that'll be NOC, then?

If Snowy you don't class that as a Tory council then so be it.

[snowychap]

If Snowy you don't class that as a Tory council then so be it.

No, I count that as a council with NO OVERALL CONTROL where the Conservatives are the main party.

If in the next General Election, out of 642 seats (646 minus the 4 for the speaker and the deputy speaker), 321 are Conservative, 261 Labour, 50 Liberal Democrat and 10 other - would you really call that a Tory government? :shock:

[drat01]

Yes because they would be the government - :-)

Now that is bizarre - I would have thought that such a well read man like yourself would have known that but hey maybe having more doesn't mean anything. Keep 'em coming Snowy - I can;t wait to see the thread where you "prove" that 1000 is actually less than 100

[snowychap]

Snowy - play by the sword etc etc

So, both sides being dickish is fine, then?

Bizarre.

Who exactly has said that then? Bizarre? Yes your assumption is

As your enigmatic post was in response to me asking whether quoting Pickles was a defence for a rather dreadful and questionable election campaign, I took it to be an affirmation that these kinds of campaigns were fine.

[blandy]

...If Snowy you don't class that as a Tory council then so be it.

No one does, do they?

And the Labour Campaign there is nasty. Never mind if anyone else is nasty too, to me it's inexcusable.

Like the Tories became under the Witch and then Major, Labour is now rotten and rotting.

This is not a happy state of affairs. They don't do what it says on the tin.

Where are the ideals? Where is the principle?

On many things they are more right wing than the Tories, more Authoritarian, and on others they simply nick whatever few ideas the Tories come up with and claim them as their own.

I guess a few folk remain "loyal", but whatever they're loyal to, it isn't what they used to be loyal to.

10% tax abolition, hitting the poorest people, ID cards, Immigration, Asylum, Wars, Nuclear Weapons, Looking after fat cat bankers who f*ck up - they're Tories in disguise.

So whoever wins, a Tory will get in.

[drat01]

No one does, do they?

Hmm Sorry Pete but you are wrong - from the "toffs" local web site

..It's an initiative from the local Conservative Council which is really starting to help. ..

So as said it is a Tory council, unless of course Mr Timpson is not telling the truth?

Both campaigns are nasty, why is that? Because when the tone of politics is set at such a low level by certain elements then it is seen as fair game to follow suit. Is it right? No of course it isn't, but they way of the world, especially in politics seem to show that it will remain that way.

As your enigmatic post was in response to me asking whether quoting Pickles was a defence for a rather dreadful and questionable election campaign, I took it to be an affirmation that these kinds of campaigns were fine.

Big assumption there Snowy

[snowychap]

Yes because they would be the government - :-)

In a hung parliament, the majority party might well technically be called the government. They would not be able to govern, though, without the assistance of another party. Tends to lead to a situation where NO party has OVERALL CONTROL.

So, going back to the Crewe and Nantwich BC example, if all Tory councillors vote in favour of a Tory policy and all non-Tory councillors vote against the Tory policy, there will be a stalemate. A Tory council would be a council where the Tory party had a majority over all of the other councillors and was thus able to govern according to its wishes.

I can;t wait to see the thread where you "prove" that 1000 is actually less than 100

Unlikely to try but I will point out that 321=261+50+10 and 28=17+6+3+2. :winkold:

[drat01]

In a hung parliament, the majority party might well technically be called the government.

Technically? :-) - no technically about it, they would be the government.

As pointed out Timpson is quoted calling them a Tory council, the fact that they are the major party and can effectively stop any legislation going through makes it a Tory council. Try as you might Snowy, it's there for all to see.

Now back to Crewe - Interesting that for all the moaning from the Tory party the tag line on their web site? "Send Gordon Brown a message" - Now why are they more intent on saying the other party leader is this or that than saying what they stand for? The nature of the game is there for all to see. As said before if you think this is bad wait until the General Election and assuming that Cameron hasn't been found out then, to see the shit that will be out there for discussion. It's not the way that politics should be run, but when you have a party like the Tory one that refuses to name any policy other than "we think Labour is this or that", what can you expect.

The voters of Crewe may well vote for the Timpson fellow, will he be a good MP for them, well going on what he has said to date he wouldn't get my vote if he were in my constituency because he fails miserably on stating how, why and when he would deliver on anything.

Shame I wont be online for a few days now as this could get interesting

[snowychap]

As your enigmatic post was in response to me asking whether quoting Pickles was a defence for a rather dreadful and questionable election campaign, I took it to be an affirmation that these kinds of campaigns were fine.

Big assumption there Snowy

So was it an acceptance?

Or was it a criticism?

Hmm Sorry Pete but you are wrong - from the "toffs" local web site

..It's an initiative from the local Conservative Council which is really starting to help. ..

So as said it is a Tory council, unless of course Mr Timpson is not telling the truth?

If you could point out whence this quote was taken then we might see the context.

Otherwise, I'd prefer to go with the evidence given earlier that the borough council in Crewe and Nantwich is NOC.

Perhaps this reference is to a different level of council? (Hint: Cheshire County Council is a Tory administration. :wink:)

[snowychap]

It's not the way that politics should be run, but when you have a party like the Tory one that refuses to name any policy other than "we think Labour is this or that", what can you expect.

I think that is one of the most remarkable things I have ever seen you post, Ian.

Though you acknowledge that this is not the way politics should be run, you say that poor behaviour by one lot is to be expected (and implicitly condoned) because of the poor behaviour of the other lot?

I don't expect politics to degenerate to a level where we have a political commentator, who has at least an element of sympathy for both the Labour party and New Labour, calling, in the Grauniad (hardly a 'paper of the right wing), the Labour campaign a disgrace.

[drat01]

Toffs Web Site- Thurs May15th entry

Good to see you only accept things you read yourself Snowy

Acceptance or criticism? My snowy me thinks you need to rest a bit. For someone that has often followed nearly all of the political threads on here, plus often commented on my contributions and brought a few back from way back when, you must be slipping.

Acceptance - well it happens and it doesn't take Miss Marple to work why and when. Criticism - do one of your searches my good fellow :-)

[drat01]

It's not the way that politics should be run, but when you have a party like the Tory one that refuses to name any policy other than "we think Labour is this or that", what can you expect.

I think that is one of the most remarkable things I have ever seen you post, Ian.

Though you acknowledge that this is not the way politics should be run, you say that poor behaviour by one lot is to be expected (and implicitly condoned) because of the poor behaviour of the other lot?

I don't expect politics to degenerate to a level where we have a political commentator, who has at least an element of sympathy for both the Labour party and New Labour, calling, in the Grauniad (hardly a 'paper of the right wing), the Labour campaign a disgrace.

Remarkable? Why thank you .............. oh you weren't praising it, shucks

Politics is seemingly no longer about debating issues it's more about trying to "diss" the other side (get down wiv the yoof Dave). You know as well as I do the importance of political debate in the old sense of the word, but these days all you get is p@p idol (see it had to come back) and the like where to prove you are the best you basically say the other side is shit. Acceptable? well it seems, and using VT as an example, that it is because few people seemingly condemn it and some actually come on here to propagate their own party views but steadfastly refuse to debate any of their policies. Now why is that exactly?

Bring back the good old days I say - but then again some snidey person will no doubt make that into a personal attack so I'm off to Greece for a few days R&R in the sun - isn't life a beach sometimes?

[snowychap]

Toffs Web Site- Thurs May15th entry

Good to see you only accept things you read yourself Snowy

'Alley gating' - an initiative set up by the Conservative-led Cheshire County Council.

So the Tory candidate for Crewe and Nantwich was referring to the local county council not the local borough council.

Thanks for the confirmation that no one has claimed that Crewe and Nantwich borough council was a Tory council.

[snowychap]

Politics is seemingly no longer about debating issues it's more about trying to "diss" the other side (get down wiv the yoof Dave). You know as well as I do the importance of political debate in the old sense of the word, but these days all you get is p@p idol (see it had to come back) and the like where to prove you are the best you basically say the other side is shit. Acceptable? well it seems, and using VT as an example, that it is because few people seemingly condemn it and some actually come on here to propagate their own party views but steadfastly refuse to debate any of their policies. Now why is that exactly?

It must have been hard keeping a straight face whilst typing that?

[drat01]

Oops Crewe council

Thanks Snowy :-)

[drat01]

......

It must have been hard keeping a straight face whilst typing that?

I'm sorry was that a post on poster?

Tut tut tut - and I thought I knew you better than that

[snowychap]

Oops Crewe council

Thanks Snowy :-)

Alley-gating initiative is in the Crewe and Nantwich borough, yes.

It is an initiative from the county council. The borough council would be acting beyond their powers were they to be implementing the policy. The county council would, as a way of effective partnership between the different levels of local authorities, be working in conjunction with the borough council.

Cheshire County Council, as Highway Authority, has adopted an interim policy for dealing with implementation of Alley Gates on these routes throughout the County.

In the same way that an initative from a national Labour government may well be implemented in an area with a Tory council.

I'm sorry was that a post on poster?

Nope, sorry if you read it that way.

[blandy]

That original Link is to a Blog, not the Council, Ian.

Talking of Blogs labourhome.org Says

The class warfare stuff, although cheap, is bording just about acceptable; but one thing horrified me (on an election leaflet):

"Do you oppose making foreign nationals carry and ID card?"

Regardless of the fact that I oppose ID cards in anyway, shape or form (the mere idea is distinctly alien to Britain) - "making", "foreign nationals" is the language of the [far] right.

What has our party come to? Do we not know who we sound like with such inflammatory, nationalist statement. Unless of course - the plan is to TRY and appeal to the BNP - in which case, i may leave the party now.

Central should be putting their foot down on this; I would rather the seat be lost - than win on the back of a campaign based on fear.

"Those who give up their liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

You are probably right about them all being as bad as each other, but that doesn't make THEM right.

[drat01]

Pete the same message is on the main site - the blog is just a sub section of the site.

The web site is linked as an official site from the main Tory party front page - Basically it's the official voice of the Crew Tory party

As said - if you think this is bad wait until the next GE - Fox News will be watching and taking lessons I fear

Snowy - So it was slack on Mr Timpson's part eh? Ah well good to see

Anyway - must pack my speedoes for next week now - so I look forward to catch up on this when I get back

[Richard]

Oops Crewe council

Thanks Snowy :-)

Alley-gating initiative is in the Crewe and Nantwich borough, yes.

It is an initiative from the county council. The borough council would be acting beyond their powers were they to be implementing the policy. The county council would, as a way of effective partnership between the different levels of local authorities, be working in conjunction with the borough council.

Cheshire County Council, as Highway Authority, has adopted an interim policy for dealing with implementation of Alley Gates on these routes throughout the County.

In the same way that an initative from a national Labour government may well be implemented in an area with a Tory council.

Just to back you up on this , central govt have introduced funding through Local Area agreements which has forced authorities in two tier areas into partnership working if they wish to retain two tier status that is (note single tier is the way to regionald government)

However County Councils are the responsible authority for highways any policy that affects the running of highways will be brought in by them and the borough have to adhere to it and have little say in it save from being consultees