70s/80s BAME footballers

[sidcow]

16 hours ago, CosmicVillan said:

I remember Jimmy Carter playing for Arsenal at Villa Park. Must have been early 90s .

Really, that's staggering. 

 

[sheepyvillian]

Our first first eleven black player, to my knowledge, was Ivor Linton, he played against Dinamo Berlin on the way to out greatest achievement. When he started playing for us, there was still a fair amount of racist abuse around Villa Park. 

[Xela]

7 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

Our first first eleven black player, to my knowledge, was Ivor Linton, he played against Dinamo Berlin on the way to out greatest achievement. When he started playing for us, there was still a fair amount of racist abuse around Villa Park. 

Stan Horne according to Wiki

Quote

Horne was the first black player in the history of his first three teams - Aston Villa, Manchester City and Fulham.

[Sulberto21]

On 01/08/2020 at 01:17, Zatman said:

according to Wikipedia he didnt tell people about his Asian heritage at the time.

Its quite strange that not many players of Asian heritage play professionally though a lot more seem to play cricket, I think Chopra was one of the 1st high profile players

If I can relate my own experiences it might give a better understanding as to why us British Asians struggle to make the grade. Obviously I don't wanna tread on any toes and I can't speak for the Indian and Bengali communities in great detail but can give a generalized viewpoint especially of the British Pakistani community. I was born in 1981 btw so it's different now.

I'm a 3rd generation Brit Pakistani Muslim. my great grandfather was bought over and he fought in the war, my grandfather fought in the second world war. My grandad and his dad were back and forth between England and India as it was at the time. My father was born in Pakistan but came to England when he was very young. So our family is a little different in so far that we've been in England a little longer than the Indian subcontinent communities that came in the 60's. Phew that's the background done.

I was around 11 when I had trials with Walsall then again at 15 but both times unsuccessful. One of the problems was that I didn't really know how to play football. I could skin anyone score loads of goals. But I didn't know what I was doing and why. 

We used to play the game to take people on and that's it. Another issue is our diets. It used to be poor. Alot of the younger British Asians are eating better than what we used to. One easy distinction you can make is that alot of Arab Muslims have made the grade in professional football. Their diets are way better than a typical British Asian especially Pakistanis from the 80's and 90's. Its a lot cleaner. So we weren't as fit as our Afro Caribbean friends and the 'natives'. Whilst we could match strength after ten minutes we had nothing. 

Culture - in the period between 1970 - 2010 our culture's have held us back. Our parents want us to be doctors lawyers accountants etc even drug dealers are held in higher regard ( huge problem in our community btw). Football just wasn't seen as a career. Contrast that with cricket because in the subcontinent it is huge our elders understand that sport much better than football. Hence the family support wasn't given to a lot of aspiring kids like me in the 80's 90's and noughties.

The British Pakistani community unfortunately collectively doesn't have the same hard working nature of the Indian communities. That's where the drug problems stem from. They want easy money. Unfortunately I'm one of the very few actively trying to root them out. 

With the money as it is and the fact we've been born here supported clubs with passion and we playing the game regularly the next few generations will see a breakthrough in participation in the professional game. 

Personally I'm against quota's ( even though there's no mention of this) as I believe I should represent Aston Villa on merit not because I belong to an ethnic minority community. The more British Asians that filter into the professional game the more England will benefit as there will be more competition between kids trying to play the game at the highest level.

Easah Suliman I know some of his cousins and Zesh Rehman I studied with his cousin. Both of those guys have had the family support to play the game at the highest level and they have the discipline to succeed. 

If anyone wants to add or correct me on anything then feel free but I'm going on what I've experienced as someone growing up in Walsall. 

Traditionally at football in England the Bengalis were the quickest, the Punjabi Indians and Pakistani Pathans were the fittest and strongest and the Pakistanis were usually the mavericks. 

I hope that helps.

[Jareth]

On 13/08/2020 at 23:57, Sulberto21 said:

If I can relate my own experiences it might give a better understanding as to why us British Asians struggle to make the grade. Obviously I don't wanna tread on any toes and I can't speak for the Indian and Bengali communities in great detail but can give a generalized viewpoint especially of the British Pakistani community. I was born in 1981 btw so it's different now.

I'm a 3rd generation Brit Pakistani Muslim. my great grandfather was bought over and he fought in the war, my grandfather fought in the second world war. My grandad and his dad were back and forth between England and India as it was at the time. My father was born in Pakistan but came to England when he was very young. So our family is a little different in so far that we've been in England a little longer than the Indian subcontinent communities that came in the 60's. Phew that's the background done.

I was around 11 when I had trials with Walsall then again at 15 but both times unsuccessful. One of the problems was that I didn't really know how to play football. I could skin anyone score loads of goals. But I didn't know what I was doing and why. 

We used to play the game to take people on and that's it. Another issue is our diets. It used to be poor. Alot of the younger British Asians are eating better than what we used to. One easy distinction you can make is that alot of Arab Muslims have made the grade in professional football. Their diets are way better than a typical British Asian especially Pakistanis from the 80's and 90's. Its a lot cleaner. So we weren't as fit as our Afro Caribbean friends and the 'natives'. Whilst we could match strength after ten minutes we had nothing. 

Culture - in the period between 1970 - 2010 our culture's have held us back. Our parents want us to be doctors lawyers accountants etc even drug dealers are held in higher regard ( huge problem in our community btw). Football just wasn't seen as a career. Contrast that with cricket because in the subcontinent it is huge our elders understand that sport much better than football. Hence the family support wasn't given to a lot of aspiring kids like me in the 80's 90's and noughties.

The British Pakistani community unfortunately collectively doesn't have the same hard working nature of the Indian communities. That's where the drug problems stem from. They want easy money. Unfortunately I'm one of the very few actively trying to root them out. 

With the money as it is and the fact we've been born here supported clubs with passion and we playing the game regularly the next few generations will see a breakthrough in participation in the professional game. 

Personally I'm against quota's ( even though there's no mention of this) as I believe I should represent Aston Villa on merit not because I belong to an ethnic minority community. The more British Asians that filter into the professional game the more England will benefit as there will be more competition between kids trying to play the game at the highest level.

Easah Suliman I know some of his cousins and Zesh Rehman I studied with his cousin. Both of those guys have had the family support to play the game at the highest level and they have the discipline to succeed. 

If anyone wants to add or correct me on anything then feel free but I'm going on what I've experienced as someone growing up in Walsall. 

Traditionally at football in England the Bengalis were the quickest, the Punjabi Indians and Pakistani Pathans were the fittest and strongest and the Pakistanis were usually the mavericks. 

I hope that helps.

Thanks for that. 

[rjw63]

On 13/08/2020 at 13:28, sheepyvillian said:

 there was still a fair amount of racist abuse around Villa Park. 

I've been at the Villa and heard "ni***r ni***r lick mah boots". I think it was directed at Justin Fashanu. 

Good job they didn't know he was gay

[FLVillan]

Culture and associated behaviours have changed dramatically in my lifetime, for the better in terms of racism.  To be blunt, racism was considered normal and acceptable in the 1970s' and into the early 80s.  The success of footballers and entertainers has actually done a lot of good in terms of breaking the stereotypes that existed.  But as recently as the early 90's I can remember the media making quite a fuss about our own Aston Villa traveling to Everton with 8 black players in the team (ironically Ron Atkinson was the boss at the time) - Barrett, Small, McGrath, Blake, Yorke, Atkinson, Regis, Daley.  To that stage in their history, Everton, by contrast had very few non-whites at their club. 

It takes generations to change cultural stereotypes and attitudes.  To give some perspective, my mum was born in 1933.  She had never seen a non-white in-person until American soldiers arrived in Birmingham.  

If the media and politicians/government stopped using skin colour and race as tools to divide and categorize we could progress even faster.  

[sheepyvillian]

10 hours ago, rjw63 said:

I've been at the Villa and heard "ni***r ni***r lick mah boots". I think it was directed at Justin Fashanu. 

Good job they didn't know he was gay

Against Albion, when they had the "three degrees", at VP. Loads of bananas being thrown onto the pitch from the Holte. What possesses a mind to go and buy bananas to do that? 

[sheepyvillian]

8 hours ago, FLVillan said:

Culture and associated behaviours have changed dramatically in my lifetime, for the better in terms of racism.  To be blunt, racism was considered normal and acceptable in the 1970s' and into the early 80s.  The success of footballers and entertainers has actually done a lot of good in terms of breaking the stereotypes that existed.  But as recently as the early 90's I can remember the media making quite a fuss about our own Aston Villa traveling to Everton with 8 black players in the team (ironically Ron Atkinson was the boss at the time) - Barrett, Small, McGrath, Blake, Yorke, Atkinson, Regis, Daley.  To that stage in their history, Everton, by contrast had very few non-whites at their club. 

It takes generations to change cultural stereotypes and attitudes.  To give some perspective, my mum was born in 1933.  She had never seen a non-white in-person until American soldiers arrived in Birmingham.  

If the media and politicians/government stopped using skin colour and race as tools to divide and categorize we could progress even faster.  

Theres an irony to that too. Ron Atkinson was our manager that day at Everton and was also the manager of Albion when they had a few black players. He was congratulated at the time for being outspoken about racism amongst supporters, yet years later, whilst commentating and thinking the mic was turned off, he called Marcel Desailly a "lazy n........". Unbelievable.