snowychap Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Yes, yes - we should always trust these large institutions and the 'professionals' with their associated self-regulatory bodies. I mean you wouldn't get giant accounting firms helping to cover up a large energy firm which was a giant scam or large banks getting fined for laundering money, for example. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 17 minutes ago, snowychap said: Yes, yes - we should always trust these large institutions and the 'professionals' with their associated self-regulatory bodies. I mean you wouldn't get giant accounting firms helping to cover up a large energy firm which was a giant scam or large banks getting fined for laundering money, for example. Like I said: "Of course, mistakes do get made, and nobody is perfect, and I'm sure some criminals will have money in IOM banks, just like they will have in UK, US, German and French banks. " Events such as the ones you mentioned have served to increase regulation and inspection. They also weren't specific to or even much to do with offshore companies in any case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Nor would a multinational bank money launder up to $7 billion on behalf of Mexican drug cartels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Risso said: Like I said: "Of course, mistakes do get made, and nobody is perfect, and I'm sure some criminals will have money in IOM banks, just like they will have in UK, US, German and French banks. " Events such as the ones you mentioned have served to increase regulation and inspection. They also weren't specific to or even much to do with offshore companies in any case. Not 'like you said'. You haven't included any reference to the (criminal) professionals without whom this money wouldn't make its way around the world. Edit: I clearly didn't limit my comments to 'offshore' companies so the 'in any case' line is redundant. Edited December 22, 2017 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 You might want to have a look at the topic title. Yes, there are criminals around the world. Banks and lawyers on the IOM and the UK try their best not to deal with them. Mostly they succeed, but sometimes they don’t. I certainly didn’t see any examples in my time on the IOM of anybody trying to deliberately aid and abet them, far from it. I saw dozens of times where business was turned down and suspicious transactions reported to the relevant authorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 10 minutes ago, Risso said: You might want to have a look at the topic title. I'm quite well aware of the topic title, thanks. My post was in response to the points you brought up about the brakes on any ill-doing by the professionals, their regulatory bodies, the regulations to which they adhere (or around which they find their way), &c. It, therefore, was a point about professional integrity (and more) which applies to accountants, lawyers and others wherever they be based be it in the BVI, IOM or Lower Skillingsthorp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 It’s not just self-regulatory bodies. It’s external regulation by the state, eg FCA in the UK, FSA in the IOM, with similar bodies in most other countries, and of course bodies like HMRC. Whether you think they’re up to the job or not is of course another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 7 hours ago, Risso said: I can't speak for other jurisdictions much, as I've only seen the regulations and worked on the Isle of Man, but the days of criminals hiding their money offshore are long gone. The levels of regulation that you have to go through now are enormous.... No, I know you can't speak for others. The Maltese government has been caught selling EU passports to anyone with a spare $650,000.00 Those buying the passports included criminals from Azerbaijan. The daughter of the Azeri PM has paid the wife of the Maltese PM $1,000,000.00 for no clear reason. An Iranian bank gave her a loan of $400,000.00 for no clear reason and doesn't appear to be receiving repayments. Somebody in the West indies appears to be sending the same account regular monies. These transactions and accounts are dealt with by Appleby with one of these highly regulated totally legitimate offshore financial things these bankers, financiers and accountants arrange for their totally legitimate and regulated customers. The journalist that went public on the connection between the totally regulated accounts, the mafia and the PM's wife was blown up in her car in front of her family. It's a criminal activity and it stinks. I hope the company Appleby dies on its fetid arse along with all the other money launderers and tax dodging thieves. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, Risso said: It’s not just self-regulatory bodies. It’s external regulation by the state, eg FCA in the UK, FSA in the IOM, with similar bodies in most other countries, and of course bodies like HMRC. Whether you think they’re up to the job or not is of course another matter. Which is why, in my second post mentioning regulatory bodies, I said: 8 hours ago, snowychap said: their regulatory bodies Edited December 22, 2017 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 2 hours ago, chrisp65 said: No, I know you can't speak for others. The Maltese government has been caught selling EU passports to anyone with a spare $650,000.00 Those buying the passports included criminals from Azerbaijan. The daughter of the Azeri PM has paid the wife of the Maltese PM $1,000,000.00 for no clear reason. An Iranian bank gave her a loan of $400,000.00 for no clear reason and doesn't appear to be receiving repayments. Somebody in the West indies appears to be sending the same account regular monies. These transactions and accounts are dealt with by Appleby with one of these highly regulated totally legitimate offshore financial things these bankers, financiers and accountants arrange for their totally legitimate and regulated customers. The journalist that went public on the connection between the totally regulated accounts, the mafia and the PM's wife was blown up in her car in front of her family. It's a criminal activity and it stinks. I hope the company Appleby dies on its fetid arse along with all the other money launderers and tax dodging thieves. When you say “caught” I think you mean “openly sells”. Lots of countries do the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Just now, Risso said: When you say “caught” I think you mean “openly sells”. Lots of countries do the same thing. ah, well, that's all ok then, a perfectly legitimate business to be involved in, nothing to see here 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Cyprus do the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Another day, another Bad Appleby story. Quote An offshore firm connected to the Paradise Papers has been ordered to pay almost €53m after a court ruled it had “manufactured” correspondence in a deliberate attempt to help a mother hide money from her estranged daughter. Appleby Mauritius, an offshore services firm owned by the law firm Appleby until 2016, helped the Italian actor Edoarda Crociani attempt to keep substantial sums of money out of the reach of her daughter Cristiana Crociani. Appleby Mauritius was named as a defendant in the action and was the subject of substantial criticism in the judgment. However because Appleby’s offshore services business separated from its legal division into a new company called Estera following a management buyout, it is Estera that has had to pay rather than Appleby. Appleby Mauritius has since been renamed Estera Trust (Mauritius) Limited. Earlier this year, the royal court in Jersey criticised the “brazen” behaviour of Appleby Mauritius and accused it of “a direct interference with the administration of justice”... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 3 hours ago, Risso said: When you say “caught” I think you mean “openly sells”. Lots of countries do the same thing. 3 hours ago, chrisp65 said: ah, well, that's all ok then, a perfectly legitimate business to be involved in, nothing to see here 2 hours ago, Risso said: Cyprus do the same thing. That's not much of a defence though, is it? And I suppose people are paying slightly less attention to Cyprus, maybe because they've managed to avoid blowing up an investigative journalist in the meantime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 41 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: That's not much of a defence though, is it? And I suppose people are paying slightly less attention to Cyprus, maybe because they've managed to avoid blowing up an investigative journalist in the meantime. No it isn’t. But if sovereign nations in the EU are acting like that, then you either need to take it up with the state directly or the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, Risso said: No it isn’t. But if sovereign nations in the EU are acting like that, then you either need to take it up with the state directly or the EU. Wow, Nige. Good work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 sometimes people paint themselves in to a morally bankrupt corner by just starting off trying to be contrary 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: sometimes people paint themselves in to a morally bankrupt corner by just starting off trying to be contrary Sorry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 And another Bad Appleby story. Why can't the press leave these chaps alone? It's an interference with the confidentiality they have a right to expect. Quote The US government has imposed sanctions on the Israeli billionaire Dan Gertler, whose African business dealings were exposed in the Paradise Papers, over “hundreds of millions of dollars’ worth of opaque and corrupt mining and oil deals” in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. In a strongly worded statement, the US president, Donald Trump, placed sanctions on 13 people and companies associated with them, declaring a state of “national emergency with respect to serious human rights abuse and corruption around the world”. In November, the Paradise Papers investigation unveiled new details of Gertler’s mining deals in strife-torn but resource-rich DRC, in particular over a $45m loan in shares to one of his companies from the world’s biggest miner, Glencore. In imposing sanctions on Gertler, the US Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) said the Israeli billionaire’s corrupt dealings had deprived the state coffers of DRC of hundreds of millions of dollars. “Dan Gertler is an international businessman and billionaire who has amassed his fortune through hundreds of millions of dollars’ worth of opaque and corrupt mining and oil deals in the Democratic Republic of the Congo,” it said. “Gertler has used his close friendship with DRC president Joseph Kabila to act as a middleman for mining asset sales in the DRC, requiring some multinational companies to go through Gertler to do business with the Congolese state.” Because of Gertler’s deals, the US OFAC said, in just three years, the DRC reportedly lost more than $1.36bn in revenues from the underpricing of mining assets that were sold to offshore companies linked to Gertler... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 18 hours ago, Risso said: Cyprus do the same thing. Oh ok, it's all good then, LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts