Smoking ban.

[dundeevilla]

No-one forces anyone to work in a pub, whether it's a smoking or non-smoking premises.

They have a CHOICE!

[TRL]

Kinda simple way to look at it, but ok.

[dundeevilla]

It is simple yeah TRL, that's kind of my point in all this.

If you choose to work in a smoking pub, then you probably don't have a problem with it. If you don't like smoky atmospheres then you wouldn't choose to work in a smoky pub. That's why when politicians cite pub staff as a legitimate reason for this ban they are being disingenuous. Bar staff know what they are gettiing into when they take the job, so they obviously don't mind smoky atmospheres that much. If they did they wouldn't be there. They are adults and make that choice.

Choice people, it's a wonderful thing.

[Jon]

No-one forces anyone to work in a pub, whether it's a smoking or non-smoking premises.

They have a CHOICE!

you will have choice on July 1st DV.

Smoke outside, at home, or not at all.

Simple, yet effective, and nobody bar the smoker themselves get poisoned/contaminated.

well, unless you live with a smoker that is.

Which i don't.

Which is nice.

you didn't expalin how someone consuming alocohol is poisoning/contaminating those in their immediate vicinity, as that was what you used in your comprison to smoking.

maybe because it isn't a valid comparison?

[Jon]

Choice people, it's a wonderful thing.

Indeed it is.

And you still have one.

[mjmooney]

Alcohol is a harmful drug and people go to pubs to consume it. Some people go on like pubs are health clubs. They are pubs, places for adults to go and relax, unwind, abuse their bodies with noxious substances.

I'm not really advocating smoking rooms, I think seperate smoking and non-smoking premises would be better. Then people would have a choice.

If you don't believe in choice then fair enough.

What choice? I live in a suburban village with ONE pub within five minute's walk. As I have mentioned elsewhere in this thread, it has been full of smokers for years, and SO unpleasant that I have effectively been barred from using it. If the landlord had a choice he would keep it smoking, as he's so shit-scared of losing all his customers. And I'd still be without a usable local.

Which is why I made the point that I'm going to tell him that I am now going to use the place BECAUSE of the ban. You lose some, you win some. The smokers have had it their way for years, now it's our turn.

Democracy? As somebody has already said , the party in power had this in their manifesto, and they got voted in. Same with the foxhunting ban. It would be undemocratic if they FAILED to bring in these measures. Like it or not, that's the way democracy works. Even the Tories support the smoking ban. And if there was a public manifesto about it, I'd wager big money that a majority would support it.

Annoying for the minority? Maybe, but tough shit.

BTW I'm an ex-smoker and very glad of it. I recommend all those bleating about this ban to wake up and smell the coffee - save yourselves a lot of wasted money, and throw away the cancer sticks.

[dundeevilla]

you didn't expalin how someone consuming alocohol is poisoning/contaminating those in their immediate vicinity, as that was what you used in your comprison to smoking.

maybe because it isn't a valid comparison?

It's not a direct comparison and I didn't say that people drinking were poisoning others around them. But if you think about it it's quite ironic that some people who go to pubs are complaining about other people in those pubs damaging their health, when they themsleves are sitting there drinking a pretty poisonous substance that is going to damage their health and kill their brain cells (through their own choice though - so that's fine).

You obviously don't agree with consenting adults being given a choice of smoking and non-smoking pubs and bars, and that's fair enough. I presume you agree that dictating to people what they should and should not be doing is the correct way forward. I disagree with that position.

I say again, I am not defending smoking, which is without doubt not a healthy thing to do. However, I am defending freedom of choice, which is what this country is supposed to be about.

[Risso]

Choice people, it's a wonderful thing.

You still haven't said HOW you'd choose which pubs would be smoking and non smoking.

:roll:

[nrogers]

Choice people, it's a wonderful thing.

You still haven't said HOW you'd choose which pubs would be smoking and non smoking.

:roll:

How about Landlords choice?? Whats wrong with that??

[Simon]

It's not a direct comparison and I didn't say that people drinking were poisoning others around them. But if you think about it it's quite ironic that some people who go to pubs are complaining about other people in those pubs damaging their health, when they themsleves are sitting there drinking a pretty poisonous substance that is going to damage their health and kill their brain cells (through their own choice though - so that's fine).

Just thought i'd point out that it's been proven that alcohol does NOT kill brain cells, actually.

[dundeevilla]

Alcohol is a harmful drug and people go to pubs to consume it. Some people go on like pubs are health clubs. They are pubs, places for adults to go and relax, unwind, abuse their bodies with noxious substances.

I'm not really advocating smoking rooms, I think seperate smoking and non-smoking premises would be better. Then people would have a choice.

If you don't believe in choice then fair enough.

What choice? I live in a suburban village with ONE pub within five minute's walk.

Yes but it's your choice to live in a place with one pub Mike. If your landlord was given a choice of whether or not to adopt the ban under any new law, based on the demands of his customers, then he would make the choice accordingly. Inevitably not everyone would be happy with his choice, whatever it was, but that's life. You can't always get what you want.

[Risso]

Choice people, it's a wonderful thing.

You still haven't said HOW you'd choose which pubs would be smoking and non smoking.

:roll:

How about Landlords choice?? Whats wrong with that??

What, like we have now you mean?

[dundeevilla]

It's not a direct comparison and I didn't say that people drinking were poisoning others around them. But if you think about it it's quite ironic that some people who go to pubs are complaining about other people in those pubs damaging their health, when they themsleves are sitting there drinking a pretty poisonous substance that is going to damage their health and kill their brain cells (through their own choice though - so that's fine).

Just thought i'd point out that it's been proven that alcohol does NOT kill brain cells, actually.

Well I stand corrected, but there's no doubt it's a noxious sustance.

[Risso]

Yes but it's your choice to live in a place with one pub Mike. If your landlord was given a choice of whether or not to adopt the ban under any new law, based on the demands of his customers, then he would make the choice accordingly. Inevitably not everyone would be happy with his choice, whatever it was, but that's life. You can't always get what you want.

You seem to be having very great difficulty indeed in understanding that pubs have had the choice to instigate a ban or not for decades. Given the choice, 99% of them won't, and we'll be in the position we are now, with the anti social smoking brigade poisoning others around them.

[Risso]

Well I stand corrected, but there's no doubt it's a noxious sustance.

I can go for a drink without it harming anyone else whatsoever. Without it affecting anybody's else's health, or making their clothes stink. You can't say the same about cigarettes.

[dundeevilla]

Under the new law landlords could be given incentives to go smoke-free, then make the choice. If what the majority on here are saying is true then most landlords would do that, because the majority of people want smoke-free pubs.

A few pubs inevitably wouldn't go smoke-free, leaving the smokers free to puff away and only poison each other.

Everyone is happy, we still have an adult choice, bob's yer uncle.

If people are going to argue that landlords would not go smoke-free given the choice, then there must be very good reasons for that.

[dundeevilla]

Well I stand corrected, but there's no doubt it's a noxious sustance.

I can go for a drink without it harming anyone else whatsoever. Without it affecting anybody's else's health, or making their clothes stink. You can't say the same about cigarettes.

I agree, I was just trying to make the point it's ironic that people in pubs complain about the damage being done to their health by smokers when they're.....oh never mind!

[nrogers]

Choice people, it's a wonderful thing.

You still haven't said HOW you'd choose which pubs would be smoking and non smoking.

:roll:

How about Landlords choice?? Whats wrong with that??

What, like we have now you mean?

Well yeah, it's the Landlords livelyhood and in most cases home, so surely he has some choice in the matter, will they be banned from smoking in their flat, how about if you rent a room in your house, are you banned from smoking in said house as, essentially it's a business of sorts!

[dundeevilla]

You seem to be having very great difficulty indeed in understanding that pubs have had the choice to instigate a ban or not for decades. Given the choice, 99% of them won't.

Correct, and why is that? Why has there been no demand and clamour for non-smoking pubs from the drinking masses?

As I have said, I understand why some people do not like smoky atmospheres, and that's why I think landlords should be given some incentives to go smoke-free. Then we would have more smoke-free premises, and people would have a choice. Surely that is not a bad thing?

[nrogers]

Well I stand corrected, but there's no doubt it's a noxious sustance.

I can go for a drink without it harming anyone else whatsoever. Without it affecting anybody's else's health, or making their clothes stink. You can't say the same about cigarettes.

Maybe you can, but there are huge amount that can't, 10 pints and fight anyone?? Take a walk down Broad Street, and I don't know if it's still as bad, but John Fight Street was a pissed up no rules boxing match to anyone who walked down it... Lets ban booze!! Solve the issue, no need for pubs!!