GeauxVilla

If you would have read two sentences further you would have seen that I addressed that in my post edit: just wanted to add that I have a lot of respect for Given and I don't have some agenda against him, I'm just surprised that he seems to be given a pass by so many of our fans. I guess, to be fair, he has been the least of our problems this season

This for me. I think we only need a few points to be 100% safe and I imagine we will sneak a lucky win or more likely get enough draws to be safe. The win against Fulham was massive, just imagine how much pressure we'd be under had McLeish thrown Heskey on to see out that game rather than Weimann

I'd been thinking this since his post match interviews on Saturday, it would almost go some way to even explain some of his selections and some of things he says, maybe he wants to be shown the door. I would be beyond shocked to see the man ever given another job in the Premier League. His reputation was enhanced while at Birmingham because he was seen as getting the best out of a group of limited players on a small budget. Also, expectations were always for the team to be relegation fodder so it was in a way a no lose situation for him. After the job he has done here though, even with the excuses he does have (some are legitimate IMO) I just don't see another team giving him that opportunity given how poor the results and the football have been. Expectations have certainly been lowered the last few seasons but I don't think anybody would have predicted us finishing 15th and battling relegation yet again. Keep in mind that every other clubs fans will have seen us place atleast twice and the only ones who might think that he has any idea what he is doing would be the Chelsea fans

If we're going to turn this into a relative cost debate you also must factor in TV revenue. Because TV money is given out based on where teams finish in the table we could also argue that bringing in a new manager next season would increase the chances of us finishing higher up the table thereby increasing revenue. I don't think that there is any question that the board will be leaving a lot of money on the table if they persist into the second year of this already failed McLeish experiment.

Well, I guess that´ll mean Heskey will keep his place. totally - can't see us scoring a goal now. Think we'll finish on 33 points. I imagine we'll manage a 0-0 tie or two

I too think he's more than ready for a run in the team. Hutton got about 30 games to find some form and although he has been much better of late as someone pointed out it appears that at his best Hutton is an average player, at his worst he has been one of the worst players I have ever seen start games regularly in the Premier League. I would rather give one of our kids a chance to win the job.

What is ridiculous about that? I agree that it would be wrong to drop him after one bad performance but I happen to think that a lot of our defensive problems are down to him. We've had trouble defending set pieces all season because teams know they can dump the ball right on top of our six yard box and no matter what Given will not attempt to come off his line. This is not a new problem mind you as Friedel was similar however Friedel had a lot more presence due to his size whereas Given gets crowded out so easily that he just sits back and tries to make reaction saves from his line. This means that we have to play a certain type of defender, the type who throws himself in front of everything. Many of our defensive issues stem from us sitting very deep and allowing teams to play in front of us, when our opponents start to line up a shot it generally results in Collins or Dunne throwing themselves in front of it or trying to make a list ditch challenge. Now as I've said Given is one of the best as far as shot stopping goes but theres a lot more to goalkeeping than just reaction saves. Furthermore, I have issues with us giving a 35 year old goalkeeper who I can't recall the last time he played an entire season without injury problems a 5 year contract and he is presumably one of our top earners. Also factor in the fact that we have a very good relatively young goalkeeper who is on much smaller wages who is going to walk for free in the summer due to lack of opportunities and to me the Given signing is another poor one, along with N'Zogbia and Hutton of course

Most people seem to agree with you. I suggest some of you go back and re-watch the third goal, a lot of peoples opinions are colored by the commentator who seemed to think it was a stunner. If you watch, the ball was at a comfortable height, not in the top corner and had Given not taken a step in the wrong direction he could have stood still and stuck his arm out and would have saved it. Arteta did hit it with a lot of power but for me it should have been a routine save.

Time to break out the Banners? Does somebody still have that "had enough Houllier out" one? Should be simple enough to replace Houllier with McLeish

Given - 3. His worst performance in a Villa shirt, should have stopped the 1st and 3rd goals. Went the wrong way for Artetas free kick which if you watch from behind would have been an easy save if he just stood still Hutton - 6. Thought he did ok for the most part, one of his less shite performances (not good, mind you) Collins - 4. Made some good stops but too many bone headed moments, almost kicked the TV when he made that run up field and gave it right too them leaving us wide open on the counter Cuellar - 4. Love Carlos but he had a poor game Warnock - 3. Please let this be his last season Herd - 5. Worked hard, a few good tackles but the game mostly passed him by. Would have preferred for him to stay on as he was trying to offer the defense some protection Stan - 3. Invisible Ireland - 7. Let his head drop a few times which really angered me but he gave it a go and was the only one trying to make something happen. Can hardly blame him for being frustrated Gabby - 4. Should be getting a run up top seeing as he has patiently waited all season and put in a shift on the wing Albrighton - 4. Final ball was piss poor as it has been all season. Kept his head up and kept working to get into good positions but must improve if he's gonna make it at this level Heskey - 0. **** you McLeish. He offered us absolutely nothing. When we managed to get the ball forward he either lost it or wasn't in the box (not that he is capable of scoring anyways) McLeish is beyond being a joke at this point. Randy - any respect or goodwill you have earned is quickly vanishing. Fix this steaming pile of dog shit before you become the next Hicks/Gillette or Venkys. If his remit was to do as much possible damage in the wake of MON leaving I don't think he could have done a better job, pathetic.

maybe time little big Brad gets another run out? Given was pathetic for me today. The first and third goals should have been saved. Given is, for me, a world class shot stopper but otherwise a very poor keeper. Horrid distribution, doesn't command his area, completely incapable or unwilling to come off his line and claim anything. After a day like today where he lets two easy ones in it really makes me question his value as a keeper, maybe he's past it?

That's exactly what makes us boring - not having a go and setting up defensively. I laughed at the first comment. I mean, sir, come on, you say we dont play boring football, and then you describe our boring style of play.

Couldn't agree more. Clearly theres a talented player in there, and theres no question that AMc and his dutch football system have done players like Ireland, Bent, Gabby and NZog no favors. BUT, I've got to say I don't care for N'Zogbia he seems to be constantly moaning everywhere he goes and never seems to be happy. He's got a bad attitude IMO and hopefully if we have a real manager come in this summer he'll sit Charles down and have a chat and quickly realize that he's not up for it. On top of that his form has been awful all year and now he complains about not playing? what has he done to deserve more playing time? if he was at a club that wasn't so desperate for attacking options between his form and his moaning I have a feeling he'd be training with the reserves.

I understand your way of thinking Trent, i also remember MON giving an interview very soon after he signed where he pointed out that he had to adapt his tackling. I guess I do agree with you BUT I'm assuming if he does continue to have a career it is because he will adapt, otherwise I too fear that his career will be very short lived.

I remember reading an article that stated that Delph was the best player in England outside of the Premier League a few months before we signed him. And for those complaining about the transfer fee, it is worth bearing in mind that there were several clubs in for him and monitoring him. At the time I think it was a good deal to make, but as with all young players, there is a risk-reward involved. It would have been very difficult to predict that his career would be hampered so much by injuries but it is worth bearing in mind that he is still very young, and if he can adapt his tackling style he's still got plenty of time to recapture that form he showed as a 17/18 year old. As for now lets just ease up on the kid a bit, let him work hard and get back on the pitch and not try to saddle him with too many expectations. Its certainly not his fault that we paid such a large transfer fee to acquire him.

Great news. Lets hope with Dunne out for the next few months Carlos finally gets a good extended run in the team under McLeish. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Carlos is out of contract in the summer and is eligible to sign a pre-contract with any club not based in England. It's a bit ridiculous that its taken this long for the club to realize Carlos is deserving of a new contract. Got to feel bad for the lad, clearly loves the club and the fans but has been mistreated by 3 managers now as well as the board

I'm just curious as to how you have arrived at this conclusion? I have seen him play a decent bit and to be honest I've not yet made my mind up about him. I think he certainly has the ability, and is a very hard worker, but until he is given a run in the side I don't think anybody should be making statements like "hes a good championship player thats all" The bigger question is, would you not rather see him given his chance over some shithead like Hutton? The kid came through our academy, clearly wants to play for the shirt, every time he has gone on loan the reports have been good and he has improved and now become a US international despite only 3 senior appearances for his club. If he's not good enough then ship him out, point is we want ever know if he's not given a run in the team. On top of all this, Hutton, if there is a decent player in there, needs dropping and needs to get his head together, he has been a nightmare since his first appearance. Lichaj is one of our kids, who has paid his dues, clearly gets along with the group of kids who have come through, is on much smaller wages, can cover BOTH fullback positions ably and adds another element to our sputtering attack with the long throw.

Hey buddy, you have seen him play at most 3 times in the Premier League. 1 very good performance against Spurs, one relatively poor performance and an average one. If you have the ability to decide whether or not a young player deserves a new contract after his first 3 performances in the Premier League, purely based on that, not ever having seen him in practice, or during his loan spells, or for his appearances with the USA national team, then i suggest you start applying for Director of Football positions with clubs much bigger than ours.

This thread looks exactly like Brad Guzans thread did before he got a run in the side. So many, mostly who have seen him play less than 5 times, have already decided that he is not and will never be good enough for us. Just like in the case of Guzan, I respectfully disagree and would suggest those who clearly are unfamiliar with the player maybe take some more time before making your decisions. Oh, and perhaps listen to those of us that actually do follow the player more closely. We are, after all, all Villans and we want what is best for the club.

Well I imagine the overhead would be very high. For instance we would have to either build or acquire a manufacturing facility and hire a staff. Probably not the most efficient way to go.

not that i disagree with your point, and i do appreciate your research. But your saying that bent converts 28% (roughly 1 in 4) and he has 5 goals so some very simple math would suggest that if he converted all of his chances that he would have about 20 goals at this point rather than "barely in double figure". Sorry for being a pedant!

disgrace.

Say I hire a stock broker to invest my money for me. If he ends up losing a good deal of my money investing in the market (in good faith obviously) then it is MY fault for hiring him and trusting him with my money. Would you not agree with this statement? I could after all quit my job and research the stock market myself, but he is a professional who is paid to do this for a living. It's easy to blame the manager for losing money but Randy Lerner is the owner of Aston Villa and if something happens on his watch that hurts the club financially then he is responsible.

you seem to be missing the point. You even admitted it here, Randy made the decision to hire MON and to give him a certain level of power. The underlined part here contradicts what you're saying, this is why it is Randys fault. Rightfully or wrongfully this is a Financial decision, Randy sets the budget and if he hired MON and allowed him to keep pushing these deals through that we can't afford then he shouldn't have hired him in the first place. Either way IMO it is Randys fault like Trent said, financially the buck stops with him and he appoints those who make managerial decisions. If they make the wrong decision and it puts the club in trouble, yes THEY made the mistake. But for Aston Villa the mistake was made by Randy Lerner the man who hired them to make decisions for the club.

im interested in these better chairmen. would you prefer either of Gaydamak Venkys Hicks and Gillett Glazers Roman(seen chelsea fans with banners asking him to sell up yesterday) Ashley Ray Ranson Gaydamak - does not own an Premier League club Venkys - has obviously been covered Hicks and Gillett - no longer own an Premier League club and because of their poor ownership received much less for said club than the club was valued at Glazers - seriously? would be a dream come true. God forbid they finance us to regularly win Premier League and compete in champions league. Ask SAF if he minds working for Glazers, he has said it is much preferable to the old ownership structure for him. Roman(seen chelsea fans with banners asking him to sell up yesterday) - an owner who within 10 years had his club winning the Premier League and a mainstay in the Champions League? Ashley - Last time i checked they were in the top 4 and since making some serious mistakes that lead to relegation Newcastle are now well poised going forward with a new wage structure an influx of talented French players. Ray Ranson - Owns a championship club mate, could obviously never afford the Villa not really sure you're making the point you think you are. As for me i agree with the popular sentiment that Randy has done a lot for this club and I still like him as an owner but clearly he has made some massive mistakes since MON **** off.