vreitti

I refuse to accept this. It's perhaps a reality that the football will not ever be great with Bruce at the helm. With someone else, it might be, and "how the Championship teams work" has IMHO little relevance. In fact, given the far poorer level of play in general, one could argue it should be even easier to walk this league.

I agree. Maybe I was a tad unclear. I suppose what I was trying to imply was that I think he was extremely lucky at the beginning. We played like shit for ages, but still got the results. Then the inevitable downfall came.

Well, what's your interpretation of what went down then? Frankly I thought that Brentford loss was one of the worst shit shows I've ever seen. We were already on a terrible run as it was, we'd just snatched their best player, and they annihilated us. Afterwards Bruce told us Bjarnason hadn't played for 5 weeks. Surely a manager with Bruce's pedigree would have had to KNOW it would only end up a disaster?

I respect your opinion, but let's not generalize just yet. Fact is he's only shown tactical nous against Wednesday, and perhaps to a minor degree in some other matches. As a whole though, he's really struggled with formations, and finding the best eleven, imho. I still don't understand how he got the results early on, because there was never a settled team, or any evident structure. On top of that, he did mess up enormously after the transfer window by throwing them all in at once, wouldn't you agree? This I can agree on. Things take time, and most fans have zero patience. I'm sadly one of those fans. I do think the injuries have helped him out lately as well, but it doesn't change the fact that some progress has been made, and he's done really well. The football is not great, and I doubt it ever will be under Bruce, but he seems to get results. Still think it's a little bit early to 'be confident' he'll get us promoted next season, but the signs are there.

Yes, I am aware of recent results and understand the current predicament in regard to injuries. As I said Bruce has done good, and long may it continue. However, I'm still unsure if we've actually turned a corner, or if it's just a 'normal' positive reaction to the bad patch from before, which you'd expect. Also as I haven't been able to watch any of our recent wins, I'm unable to comment if real progress has occurred or not. From a results perspective it's of course obvious.

It is indeed, so credit where it's due. I'm thrilled that we won, and equally thrilled that Bruce did good. It's only one game though, folks. If we start seeing these 'tactical masterstrokes', more often, I'm sure all his critics will pipe down, me included.

He obviously didn't want to stick around and fight for the cause. Good riddance I say. I couldn't care less about the money, and I doubt Tony cares all that much either.

Try Tinder!

Having witnessed what in a sense could be described as the 'game of all times' yesterday, it's clear to me this should be the aim of all football clubs. Obviously, I'm not talking about emulating Barca or their footballing philosophy. What I'm advocating is emulating the same desire, will and determination to be(come) successful. I look at our recent years, our lackluster campaign this season, and keep thinking where on earth do these great teams get this motivation, drive and fighting spirit from, when our group of players mostly lack these fundamental characteristics, and at times simply look disinterested and spineless. It clearly isn't just about money or ability either, and the difference between a world class player and a championship standard player. Sure ability breeds confidence, which inherently is another trait we of course severely lack. I keep thinking about the significance a manager at a football club has, and whichever way I twist and turn, it never amounts to a small part, of what ultimately will constitute success. Then again, perhaps I am slightly exaggerating the role; Chelsea did after all arguably win the CL without a manager, because they already had all the other key components in place. Lacking this sort of foundation and footballing culture, that the top teams in the world have, is undoubtedly our biggest concern, and the more I think about it, I keep coming back to one key element, that of stability. Honestly, I really dislike the word, as it’s used all too easily as an excuse for other failings. I’m now resigned to the fact that Bruce will be with us for the foreseeable future. Whilst I do not rate him as a football manager, and would most definitely take Wagner, or whatever other up and coming, modern manager with the infamous ‘continental approach’ instead, I have to acknowledge the notion that stability, at this point in time, simply is the single most important factor. FWIW I cannot fathom it’s taken me this long to come to this conclusion, when it’s so bloody apparent. I suppose I just don't ever again want to suffer these past few years, or to have to wait 10+ years for things to turn around. I won’t however stop being critical of Bruce, if and when I feel it’s justified, then again I’ll surely give him credit, when credit is due. Here’s hoping that I only have to contemplate the latter, starting with Saturday.

Problem is okay just isn't good enough for where we are, and it sure as hell isn't good enough for where we want to be.

Sounds like we had a decent first half, followed by the usual capitulation in the latter. Once again we only manage to play football for 45 minutes. Same shit, different day, only this time we didn't get a result. This is the sad reality against better opposition. We all know who's to blame. Some will still argue he just needs more time.

A disgruntled General K is more likely!

Isn't it obvious from my OP?

I've merely seen the highlights from the last three games, so I'll have to take your word for it. I do recall several people actually saying we didn't play all that well as a whole, but I'm hesitant to go into a debate about what does or doesn't constitute "genuine progress" now.

But it's really not just about winning or losing, is it? We won plenty when Bruce first arrived, albeit the football was dire, and you could see the 'downfall' around the corner. I know not all emphasize the performance, as I do. To some the result is all that matters. At the moment I'll too of course take any win, but I'd still like to see genuine progress, from a pure playing perspective.

Boy am I glad I don't own one of those.

If and when there is evidence of such a turnaround, I'll happily change my point of view!

Yes I am well aware of his past exploits. That is the past. There's of course the possibility he'll repeat this, however as I said, based upon what I've seen thus far, I find this unlikely. You don't have to agree with me!

Fair enough, I'll rephrase. Would you agree that most on here seem to think there's a great likelihood us getting promoted with Bruce?

This is what I keep reading, on a daily basis, and surely this part at least is fact, not just your opinion? Most seem to think it's more or less a guarantee we'll get promotion next season, if we simply stick by Bruce. Given what we've seen thus far, I'd say it's highly unlikely we'll get promoted with him at the helm. I do however agree, the squad certainly is strong enough now, and I'd argue it was so before January too.

When exactly did Bruce ever manage to create a team with what RDM left behind? Sure we won a few games, but performances were most terrible, and the lineup kept changing from one week to another. Hogan's injury left Bruce with no option than to ditch what was his preferred new formation and team. If anything this just underlines the fact that he's underperforming.

Question is how long do we have to wait for this stability? Furthermore I'm not sure I follow your logic here. Why exactly should we go up next year? Rolling the dice now or at the end of the season is risky, then again so is sticking to Bruce IMHO.

Fair enough. I'm all alone in this. I do believe the lowered expectation levels are playing tricks with your minds! Ask yourself, is Morrison a better footballer than Hourihane? Is Rondon really better than Kodija? Just because WBA are in the Premier League, it's not automatically because they have better players on an individual level than we do. As a team, they're of course miles better than us. That's undeniable. Sorry for the OT.

I have. In fact I've probably seen 10 or more of their games. I respect your opinion, but don't agree. McCauley & Brunt have been good IMO. Still wouldn't swap them for say Chester & Adomah.

Sorry about that mate I think I've explained this a million times, but I'll gladly do it again. I simply think Bruce is a relic of a manager. His tactics are generally negative and outdated. He doesn't seem to know how to build a team, or settle on a formation. He's awful at reacting when things change during a game. He inherited plenty of quality, and after a promising start, it became evident he didn't have a clue. At one point I was seriously thinking does he ever go and oversee our training, because he could never figure out a best first eleven. Then in January, when we still had a solid chance (positionwise) of reaching the playoffs, he goes and buys an entirely new team. Then tries to breed them all in at once, crippling our last bit of hope for promotion. Add to that fall outs with several players, and the reintroduction of Gabby in particular, which was nothing short of mind-blowing. I'm sure we'd have had to endure plenty of Richards as well, if he wasn't injured. These players being a major reason for our recent downfall. I keep thinking Bruce was hired to bring stability to the club, instead he's had quite the opposite effect. I know you, and many other feel he needs more time. I don't. But as I've stated, there's really no harm anymore in giving him the remainder of the season, as we have nothing to play for. I'll admit, I'm intrigued myself to see what happens going forward, so for that reason alone I wouldn't sack him until the summer. Fwiw I do like him as a person.