ianrobo1

or is it a case that no-one really thinks Distin is worth £7m (remember more than Parker) whereas you could argue that Bellamy is.

another management cock-up

Ok so why did he leave I have compile the possible reasons, which one do you think is the reason ? I go for the fact that Bruce's plan was kicked into touch

John what is the region of money that you call signifcant -- £10m/£15m ?

Been to Norwich a couple times and enjoyed it immensley there, very friendly club, fans who are passionate and plays good football. Added to that - Delia Smith, a faan who became chairman and whether she looked stupid or not in her 'lets be having you ' speech she seemed to spark them into possibly surviving. she alone deserves to stay up and I think they will.

yep Ian the Tory party gone what joy !!!

I couldn't pick any of them I think at times some of been good like Solano at home and Barry at times BUT I can not honestly pick one player who was so obviously better than others !!

I thought this was a poll whether the JPA on this site should be banned but seriously I think JPA is the kind of fella that needs to be happy in all aprts of his life to play at his best and I really think the knee injury at the start of the season **** him up for the rest of it and he is worried buy it.

Whoever wins the Saints Palace match will stay up, if that is a draw then fancy Saints as they have Man Utd at home who will be looking at the cup final, but Palace have a London derby against Charlton.

agreed nowt wrong with the present one

got to be honest but I hated the round one, no prepared on it and no tradition. We have to use the sheild and prepared but wioth no **** stripes !!

I always look at who I want the most in Villa's team and based on this season has to be Robben. Is there anyone else who thinks SWP is over-rated ? Also why not include Solano, some on the list are not pure wingers nor is Solano.

Bicks have you seen the safe standing areas at Bayern, Dortmund etc. (remember they have the world cup). Check it out because what happens is that it is like normal terracing but for European games they bring seats down and fix them like normal seating areas.

Interesting comments by Villa though ...

A few years ago I was interested in the concept of safe standing as you see practised in Germany successfully but a campign led by some Man Utd fans fizzled out. Saw this in the Guardian and it makes interesting reading. Time to talk about standing? "My lovely son Kevin did not die because of standing on terraces, he died because of the lack of control and care by South Yorkshire Police. I believe terraces are safe without perimeter fences. Standing never killed anybody, cages and treating people like animals did." Anne Williams, chair of Hillsborough Justice Campaign, mother of 15-year-old Kevin, who died in pen three. Georgina Turner Friday April 15, 2005 Terrible memories, yes, but they are no substitute for real discussion. ( Such is the legacy of Hillsborough that today, 16 years on, football will again bow its head in a solemn prayer for the 96 lives lost, and rue the preventable chaos in which they were extinguished. The disaster is at once English football's saddest memory, its biggest shame - and, even before the last petal wilted on the Kop, it became its hardest lesson learned. The scale of Hillsborough led Margaret Thatcher to immediately commission Lord Justice Taylor to explore what had happened. His and media investigations pointed to massive failures by staff at the club and, in particular, South Yorkshire Police, whose delayed reaction and confused response to the crushes in pens three and four doubtless cost lives that day. The perimeter fencing, deemed unsafe three years earlier, had held many to their deaths. But, having pointed the official finger of blame in the same direction as thousands of others in his interim report, Taylor's final report quickly retracted it, focussing instead on introducing all-seater stadia as a means of preventing a repeat of the tragedy. In the intervening years, of course, this has been successfully introduced in the top two flights, and we have breathed a grateful sigh of relief to see no such recurrence. But now, questions are being asked as to how much this has to do with seating itself, and whether some standing could not safely be reintroduced. This is no new idea, and the question was discussed everywhere except in the corridors of the Football Licensing Authority - who are charged with enforcing the rules on seating - four years ago. But in July last year, in response to increasing conflict between clubs and fans over persistent standing, a group of West Ham fans started the Stand Up Sit Down campaign. It has grown into a 3000-strong group, and their petition - calling for a choice between sitting down and standing at games - has been signed by some 2000 more, and includes supporters from 130 clubs. This still represents a minority among the nation's football supporters, but the petition's founder Peter Caton is confident that his is a sentiment shared by many more - and the response to recent leafleting and protests has encouraged him. "We've been to games and seen how many people stand all through the game," he says. "It's causing unnecessary conflict between staff and stewards at the club and fans, and we feel that if a controlled area could be dedicated to fans who prefer to stand, then that would actually improve safety. "Recently I've been handing out leaflets at grounds, and we held a yellow-card protest at White Hart Lane the other week, and the jump in our membership afterwards was incredible." The success of the protests has so far been immaterial, however: the biggest stumbling block is opening the subject up for debate, something the FLA has consistently prevented. Off the record, Caton says, several Premiership clubs have agreed with his campaign, but publicly, they refuse to break with the FLA's word on the subject. The lack of discussion has left fans suspicious of the FLA's motives. "They don't want to talk about it because it will throw light on how weak their arguments are," says Caton. "They accept that I will jump up and down when a goal is scored, they accept that this is the most dangerous time in the game, and yet they want to stop me standing still the rest of the time. "Of course Hillsborough is an incredibly emotive incident, but if you can look at it rationally, standing did not cause what happened. It makes me wonder if safety is the real issue here. "First, if it is, then why aren't the FLA stopping clubs extending their grounds with these very tall, very steep tiers? They pose a far higher safety risk - but of course, they make everyone extra money. "Second, I can - in fact I'm often forced to - stand on a bus or a train, which figures show is far more likely to injure or kill me. I just can't understand the discrepancy. "Third, we've already seen that the threat of banning people who stand, or ground closures, doesn't work - not least because they can't afford to enforce it. "So people will keep on standing, even in parts of the ground where it does pose a risk, and they will keep ruining the game for people behind them who would like to sit down. If the FLA really was concerned for safety, it would be working on a way to find somewhere appropriate for these fans to stand." Neil Masterman is a Leeds season-ticket holder and persistent stander. In an effort to persuade fans to sit down in the Kop end, the Elland Road club has introduced a "Use it or lose it" campaign. He is also suspicious as to why he is being forced out of the ground. "I know I risk losing my ticket because I've told them that I do stand, I do break ground regulations," he says. "It's so frustrating though, because there's no opportunity to explain why we stand, and talk about ways to do that safely. "I think there is an underlying attempt to edge the average working class football fan out of the game. Us lot that want cheap standing tickets are worth less to them than a family who will buy lots of merchandise, or corporate clients who will throw money at the club. Never mind that we sing our hearts out." In truth this might be a conspiracy theory too far, but with ever more awkward kick-off times, increasingly frequent kit-changes, and lower and lower away allocations, it's clear that the supporter features a fair way down football's list of priorities. And, Masterman says, the FLA is focussing on the wrong issue. Tickets allocated to away fans are becoming fewer and fewer, sometimes as a punishment for persistent standing - Manchester United have seen their away allocations at Middlesbrough and Charlton slashed for that reason. What the FLA don't realise, however, is that the risk this creates is far greater. "It means fans will just go and buy tickets in the other end. We've had to do it all season, even at games like Leicester, where you can expect a bit of aggro - and with years of segregation in place, that's what poses a bigger risk in my book," he explains. "It's a ridiculous situation." Masterman also feels that the FLA are using outdated images of English hooliganism to dictate crowd control measures in what is now a very different environment. "Police operations are far more sophisticated nowadays," he says, "and any incidences of violence are usually miles away from the ground. "Besides, I don't like the implication that just because I want to stand I must be a hooligan." The FLA might scoff at the mere suggestion, but chief executive John de Quidt's comments suggest the organisation does not necessarily equate football supporters with the average law-abiding citizen. Why were restricted standing areas, which work well in Germany, dismissed as a possibility here after an FLA fact-finding mission to Hamburg? Why have the Gaelic Athletic Association seen fit to introduce a standing terrace at Croke Park? A key factor, of course, is that the changes needed within a ground to incorporate the areas present a sizeable investment for clubs. That aside, however, the FLA's stance is revealing. "It's a question of culture, the way the fans behave here compared to the way they do there," says de Quidt. "It tends to be a defined sort of crowd that we get at football games here." No mention, strangely, of the German fans who went on the rampage little more than a fortnight ago in Slovenia, smashing cars, throwing flares, and clashing with policemen. "Standing would change the whole character of football crowds these days," he went on. "You're likely to lose the women and older people who tend to be a civilising force on the crowd, and be left with masses of testosterone-fuelled young men." Sweeping generalisations and condescension aside, there's no doubting that a proportion of the female and older crowd will prefer to sit down, but they'll doubtless also be joined by more than a few men. De Quidt is clearly positioning the male football fan within a context of hooliganism - which has demonstrably receded in this country. What remains is missile throwing, of course, though the FLA insist that seating is a preventative measure. With all the incidents we've seen even this season, that clearly isn't the case, and in fact the culprit when a bottle struck Arsene Wenger when Arsenal played Sheffield United in the FA Cup last month was a 14-year-old girl. It is also inconsistent to assume that someone unruly enough to want to throw something onto the pitch would be too cowardly to defy ground regulations and simply stand to launch it. The FLA was born of the Taylor report, it is their job to see that the recommendations made are adhered to, and for that you cannot fault them. What is worrying, though, is that while Lord Taylor stated that "standing accommodation is not intrinsically unsafe", de Quidt's fundamental argument against opening discussion on standing areas is that "standing, by definition, is always going to be unsafe". We should not be comfortable with the fact that de Quidt and his organisation are sticking stubbornly to this opening gambit before closing their ears to further discussion. Ultimately, though, John de Quidt and the FLA have the easier battle to fight. "I'm not prepared to wait for another disaster before people accept that standing is not safe, are you?" asks the chief executive, with the ease of a man who has said the same a million times before. No doubt a silence has followed just as often. It is incredibly difficult to emerge from this exchange of fire clutching one argument having confidently kicked the other into touch. The fact that a lot of the FLA's reasoning against the notion of standing is fallible does not in itself make the reintroduction of standing right or wrong. We must also consider that though the memory of Hillsborough grows older, it has yet to fade, continuing to make many people uncomfortable with the idea of standing. But what must not happen is that the people with the power to effect change use those horrific memories in the place of real argument. That they do not use the trepidation with which people approach what happened at Hillsborough to prevent discussions on change (which might yet establish the standers as a minority) - it is an insult to the memory of those that died to use their fate in such a way. If there really are fans who would prefer to stand, they must be allowed a voice. And somebody must listen. What the Premier League says "The provision of all-seater stadia in the top two divisions of English football is government policy. In addition both Uefa and Fifa require all-seater stadia for their competitions. Premier League clubs have invested over £1.5bn in their stadia over the past 13 years and we believe we have the finest and safest set of club stadia in world football. This combined with effective and professional stewarding and intelligence led policing, has seen public disorder all but eliminated from Premier League grounds. I would be surprised if government did anything that might compromise that safety record." What the clubs say We asked all 20 Premiership clubs whether they would like to see the idea discussed, and whether they believed their fans would be interested. Half of them - Bolton, Charlton, Chelsea, Crystal Palace, Everton, Fulham Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United, Middlesbrough, and Newcastle - did not respond. Three - Arsenal, Blackburn, and Tottenham Hotspur - chose simply to send us the Premier League's statement (above). Of those that did offer us their views (Aston Villa, Birmingham, Norwich, Portsmouth, Southampton and West Bromwich Albion), most were positive. Their comments are shown below. Aston Villa If this is something that is going to be the future of football, and it had the backing or the relevant authorities, then it is certainly something we would look at. If it's done through the proper channels, I don't see any reason for clubs not to look at it. There are lots of factors involved in what the fans would make of it, but it would be likely to lower ticket prices, and any fan in their right mind would welcome that. Birmingham If the relevant authorities were happy to consider the proposals then Birmingham City would also be happy to look at the possibility. Looking further ahead the benefits could mean that we, Birmingham City FC with a limited capacity crowd, could offer more people access to see our Premiership games and offer cheaper ticket prices for standing. We are sure some of our supporters would love to see a standing area as long as it is safe and can be controlled. Norwich We would certainly welcome any sensible discussion, by the relevant authorities, re-addressing the whole question of safe standing. We do have a number of supporters who prefer to stand, but at the moment we obviously try and adhere to regulations. We always try and make a point of talking to our fans about this sort of thing, and we held a consultation earlier in the season where we talked about the question of standing. We take that very seriously and we'd continue to press for standing if indeed legislation was to change. Any changes we made would be after a thorough national review involving the relevant authorities, and subsequently involving full consultation with supporters. Portsmouth We adhere to the law, and the law is that all stadiums have to be all-seater. I don't know whether football would be interested in that kind of thing. We're in the throes of preparing for a new stadium, and that, at this moment in time, is designated as an all-seater stadium, so we're going ahead with that. It would be very difficult at this stage to go back on that and put in facilities for people to stand. Southampton We have long campaigned for an open debate on this subject and we were one of the first clubs to do so. We would welcome any sensible discussion involving all the relevant authorities to reinvestigate the issue of safe standing at matches. West Bromwich Albion The club has invested heavily in converting The Hawthorns into an all-seater stadium which we believe has made the ground a much safer place to watch football. Should the government decide to change its policy on this issue, we would reconsider our own position, but we don't envisage this being the case.

another vote for Lampard a player who has played every game for two years and score vitaal goals, pure class and just think ellis had a bid turned down for him :wow:

somone asked why we get new kits, isn't the simple answer that there are enough mug fans who will buy yet another kit at £40 a shot so instead of having a new kit windfall money every two years we get it every year. Or are the daft ones, the club or us ??

that I agree with but Hitz will not want to be a perpetual sub will he ?

but not when time and time again he hasn't proved that he can put together 90 minutes of football. And beimng in the German team is not a recognition of top class talent but sats how poor they are at the moment.

ah Richard isn't the problem that rather than the manager not wanting him because he ain't good enough instead it is about the fact that Ellis won't pay his contract, which is worse than the scenario you even painted !!

The religious right wing luv the death penalty: a commandent is 'Thou shalt not kill' a bunch of hyprocites as usual !!!

surely a cult hero by defintion is one who is not that good but does something different that endears him to the crowd. My vote therefore goes to Ian Taylor or Ian Ormedroyd

Yes it is a good thing at least if we sign someone he won't be like a son to Doug at the press conference !!!

where's the option for Ellis :?

I don't disagree but as far as the English league is we will see he could easily be a new Mellberg for us . Forlan plays for one of the best teams in the world BTW :wink: