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And the Agbonlahor chance in the second half which was saved by Duke. Excellent ball in, I didn't spot the pass before he played it. That's a fairer summary in all though. In the first half he was too often in our half of the pitch. Wanted him to pass forward more. We did control the possession but we hadn't scored and then we went behind. Needed to be more aggressive and assertive. Try and play a few one-twos so he gets more of the ball, and carries the attack so he can play a shorter attacking ball to our strikers.

I'm all your daddies. :D Seriously, you are just slating one guy out of 10 ... the one guy who happened to be the best guy on the pitch, after Weimann, Benteke, Lowton and Clark. He wasn't the worst playing tonight, and did create chances for us to miss. If they had been scored you would be praising Bannan. I think.

Guardian reporter says Bannan was one of our better players in what was an abysmal performance. This somewhat proves the idea Bannan gets the blame for team performance, no matter what happens (and presumably never gets the credit for good games either). Guys, the players did not work hard enough tonight. All of them. Don't give the other 10 a free ride and pin all the blame on one man. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/jan/08/bradford-aston-villa-capital-one-cup

Didn't take long for this performance to be blamed on Bannan, did it? He created 3 clear cut chances in the second half. None of them were scored. He created chances in the first half from corner kicks. Just perhaps Bannan is not at fault for this one. Let's entertain some other possibilities why we lost. Crap defending maybe?

No, just found the website and the stats literally one month ago. It's one of the reasons I made the effort to sign up to this forum, as I had something to add rather than simply my opinion

He's not going to score many goals other than set pieces or long shots. He's not a Frank Lampard or Steven Gerrard type player who attacks the penalty box to volley or head home. Would it be great to have the kind of midfielder player who does everything? Yes! But great ones are hard to find and if you only have a Steven Gerrard's less amazing cousin, a 'great' midfield quarterback like Bannan might be the better option. Bannan spots weaknesses in the opponent's defence, spreads the play from wing to wing, or down the middle. If he is not making any key passes, controlling our play choosing the right passes, or the set pieces don't go where they are supposed to then fair enough - he's not doing his job.

Also wasn't he made captain for the last season? Has game experience and is a mature person. Character is a very valuable asset that isn't included on a table of statistics. He will add to team morale, team spirit, fighting spirit in a way that Bent, Ireland to name two might not.

We need goal scorers - why are you even thinking about selling? The only way we could replace Weimann is by spending at Darren Bent levels on another striker who is proven in the Premiership. Let's just keep the proven striker we have, who cost us pennies. Another thing of interest that nobody has yet said: Weimann qualifies as a Home Grown player. A Home Grown player is one whom "irrespective of nationality or age, have been affiliated to the FA or Welsh FA for a period of three seasons or 36 months prior to 21st birthday". Weimann has been at the club since he was 16 so qualifies as home grown. This not only adds another £million on to his price tag to another Prem side (especially top 4) it is also another reason why we should keep him. Edited to add: in Prem, Weimann has played 973 minutes, which is the equivalent of 11 starts. 4 goals in PL so far. Andy Carroll PL stats for Newcastle: 08/09: 3 goals in 14. 10/11: 11 goals in 19.

You're wrong on this one. Westwood has 19 tackles in 1013 minutes. Bannan has 27 in 1289. That means Bannan has more tackles and is tackling at a slightly higher rate. That's true. 30 vs 27. More interceptions and intercepts passes more frequently. Westwood is more often in a more defensive position than Bannan because he has the more defensive game, and he is asked to play the more defensive game. He defends further back than Bannan because he plays the more defensive role of the two. Twice the amount. Come on it's 2 assists to 1 - but fewer key passes, which are potential assists. Bannan delivers a key pass once every 46 minutes, Westwood only every 127 minutes - not even once a game. Westwood also tends to go for the percentage pass rather than the aggressive one that could result in a chance/dangerous attack for our team. This just reiterates the point I made earlier that Bannan and Westwood play different games. Saying you would pick Westwood over Bannan is saying you want a more defensive team. True. Bannan also gets caught in possession less often than Westwood - once every 117 minutes to Westwood's 101 minutes. Westwood needs to improve that stat because he is in the more defensive role. Yes, I am primarily emphasising the statistics that apply to Bannan's game, because if we are judging him we should judge him on what he is in the team to do.

Why do you rate Westwood higher? This is not yet supported by the statistics, Bannan is generally better on all of them. Westwood has one extra assist because he passed side-ways 5 meters when Holman shot in from range. Westwood and Bannan are different kinds of players so if you want one rather than the other to me you are effectively saying you would prefer the team to play in a particular style. What is that style? Let's take one of the best midfields as an example. Who is best out of Frank Lampard, Juan Mata and Ramires? They each play central midfield but with their own very different qualities. Who is best, and the best combo, depends on the tactics you want to play in the match. They excel at different things. Lampard box-to-box generalist, Ramires defensive tackler, Mata creative. Lampard / Ramires will be the most defensive line up. Lampard/Mata will be very attacking. Ramires/Mata will be mix of attack and defence. Westwood describes himself as a Michael Carrick kind of player. Carrick is a CM who knits together play with his passes and contributes to the defensive side of the game and to the attack with crosses. He's different to Lampard/Gerrard because he doesn't attack the penalty area and score goals. Bannan is not a defensive player at all and in the right team shouldn't be required to do that job. If Westwood is really going to be a Carrick-type player he should be better at this job.

Now I know whoscored.com exists (I don't work for them, not affiliated in any way, not promoting them, just found them with an internet search) I form my opinion with help of statistics. Before then I formed my opinion on Bannan same as all other players: * youtube (if any) - virtually none in case of Bannan * newspaper reports - don't remember negative ones about Bannan, mostly positive mentions of Villa's academy, and Bannan is one of the academy products. * what I've see when he plays - good set piece delivery, can pick a pass * age and height - short players are generally more technical players than taller players * number of goals and assists * what other people have said on forums about his style of play My opinion was affected by my level of expectation. I didn't expect Bannan to score loads of goals and he doesn't. That's not a negative. He's not a goalscoring midfielder who arrives late in penalty box like Gerrard or Lampard. I did expect control of possession, set piece delivery and creativity. He has done this to some extent. He is a younger player still learning the game and last year he was managed by McLeish, which would not have suited his playing style. In terms of my expectation Bannan is about what I'd expect. No more, no less either. Now I have some good stats I can form an opinion based on what is actually happening according to some objective measures, rather than from general opinion. Arguments are generally stronger when supported by statistics but even when I'm using statistics to form an argument it is only, ultimately, an opinion - not fact. Just because a player has good statistics for a while, doesn't mean they will continue to post good statistics. They can have one good season and then for reasons we can't explain not perform at the same level again.

So to make "the grade" Bannan 1. needs to prove it for 3-4 years (what is "it"?) 2. contribute assists and goals (how many per season?) He's made mistakes. Even great players make mistakes. Paul Scholes over-hit some hollywood balls against West Ham yesterday. I think you need to put Bannan's mistakes in context. In the PL he gets caught in possession less often than any other Villa midfielder and has the most key passes. Yes he can improve, get dispossessed less often, and make more accurate passes, but making some mistakes in a game is natural for even great players. Overall effectiveness is what matters. Westwood plays a different role. He has far far fewer key passes than Bannan, tackles slightly less often and is dispossessed slightly more often. Westwood has better passing accuracy but with the lower key pass rate, it's hard to know what to make of this. Is he creative? Can he spot a pass like Bannan? That's not been his game style so far. Bannan would not be automatically benched by a new midfielder. It depends on the tactics Lambert plays and the style of the footballer bought in. If we play only 2 in CM Bannan is more likely to be paired with a strong DM than Westwood because Bannan is probably creative. We could also play 3 in CM. You are being a very harsh judge. Joe Allen has proven himself, in my opinion, with that season for Swansea. Few goals and assists, and the key man in Swansea's control of possession and attacks. When will you be happy a player has made it? When have a team full of Champions League stars - like Young, Milner and Barry? I'm happy for the team to get better and better and to support each player on the way who raises our standard to that higher level even if they're not Champions League.

What will Bannan have to do to make "the grade" in your opinion. I could argue he has already made the grade. Only 50% time in our midfield, yet on the pitch for 18/19 PL points. Must be doing something right, I could argue. So define "the grade". Is it measured in goals and assists - if so, how many should he make? What if I say key passes more realistic measure of influence than assists (because assists require the person on the end of the key pass scoring): could you define how many key passes Bannan should make? At this point I will be cheeky and say I've checked the key passes stat for Xavi this season: 14 games, 24 key passes - 3 less than Bannan! He does have 4 goals and 4 assists though and I'm definitely not saying he's as good as Xavi - just being cheeky. Also, please could you clarify for me whether you think Joe Allen has made "the grade" and why, because you could compare Bannan to Allen. I'm not saying Bannan is definitely on the level of Joe Allen... I'll wait to the end of the season before I answer that. Right now I think he deserves more game time.

Weimann is worth far more than £8-10 million. That is ludicrously low! Compare his age and attributes to other strikers and the price they have sold for. Weimann is worth more than Bent. If he is a 15+ goal striker over next two years I would not sell him for less than £30 million because he has more years in him and greater resell than Van Persie. Van Persie £30 million transfer to Man Utd aged 29. Attributes: World Class finishing, playmaking, passing, positional awareness, ball control, set pieces, and ability to link up play. Strong heading. Hardly has a weakness so gets the top price even though he is at the ripe age of 29. Dzeko £27 million transfer to Man City aged 25. Attributes: World Class finishing, positional awareness, heading, and has the ability to be the target man who holds up the ball. Doesn't have as strong playmaking, passing and set piece delivery skills like Van Persie but was much younger (which adds a premium) while Van Persie was much older (which gets a discount). Bent £20 million transfer to Aston Villa aged 27. Attributes: World Class finishing and positional awareness. Heading ability not special. Lacks strong playmaking skills and does not have the ability to be a target man who can link up play. Weimann £30+ million aged 21. Attributes: World Class finishing, and positional awareness. This alone suggests he is worth more than Darren Bent, because he is younger than Darren Bent. Weimann is better than Bent. Goal against Ipswich suggests he has great headin He also has the ability to hold ball up and link play (goal against Liverpool), and stronger passing and playmaking skills than Bent. He's not as good as Van Persie or Dzeko but it is unknown at this stage how much more he will improve - Van Persie is better at 29 than he was at 21.

The goal came down the left side - where was Bennett then? I've only seen one highlight so don't know whether he was out of position or not. Bennett's defensive weaknesses in the Premier League are his defensive decision making * being caught in possession of the ball - which is unforgivable for a defender because if you get robbed there's often nobody behind you except the goalkeeper. In the PL Bennett gets robbed once every 50 minutes. In contrast Stevens and Lowton get caught in possession once every 190 minutes. * being caught out of position. The last goal against Swansea is an example. It came from an attack down the left side when Dyer strolled passed Holman (who expected his LB to be just behind him in support) and got in a free cross, unopposed, which lead to the goal. Where was our left back to block the cross? Underlining his weaker defensive skills, up to the Tottenham game on average we were conceding goals once every 47 minutes with Lowton on the pitch at RB, once every 34 minutes with Bennett at LB. Bennett's positive attributes are his pace, passing (relatively high accuracy) and his dribbling, which are also attributes of a winger. He is also a hard worker who would track back like a good winger. Until his defensive ability improves he should stay on the left wing.

Gordon Cowans definitely would have been a continental style footballer if he were playing today - and a great one. When he was playing the pitches were crap and you could kick each other.

I don't think Aston Villa has ever had a player like Bannan. Before reasonable quality football pitches existed for whole season you couldn't have the Mata, Fabregas, Arteta, Modric, Scholes dominating in this country with their playmaking game. This is the continental style. Try playing continental style in a mudbath you don't get very far. Hoof ball is the only game. Jack Wilshere, Joe Allen, Barry Bannan etc (this is a trend, there will be many others)... they are the first generation of continental style British born footballers.

That stat tells you nothing on its own. Very poor tweet that. You need to know not the total but the frequency - how many passes go astray per time on the pitch. Bannan has the most minutes of all our central midfielders so will have higher totals of all stats. Bannan makes more key passes. He goes for the hard pass that gets the reward, and achieves that more than any other player. This kind of player will misplace passes more often because being creative is hard. For the same reason, a striker or winger gets dispossessed far more often than a central defender as it's their job to try to go around a player - which is hard.

data from whoscored.com, who get their data from sources like Opta. They don't explain what the term means. I interpret a key pass as one that leads to a chance. A key pass is like an assist for what should have been a goal if the striker hadn't fluffed the chance. Tackle rate must be successful tackles otherwise it's not a tackle. Seems to me the definition of a tackle is removing the ball from the feet of the opposition. Dispossession rate has to be all over the pitch. Why should it be confined to any part of the pitch? Bannan's stats are the best of our central midfielders. I'm not saying he is anywhere near Juan Mata yet but I would say a reasonable comparison is Joe Allen. I notice from the highlights Bannan made an excellent low pass through the middle of the pitch to N'Zogbia for the first goal against Ipswich. The pundits made a point of commenting on the nice attack through the middle.

He's only played 50% time available in midfield for Premiership matches but he has played the most minutes of any CM midfielder. If any one of our midfielders cannot complain about game time it is Bannan. His only reason to move would be greater ambition than Villa. He must know how good he is, and the results the team get when he plays, so he must feel as though he has proven himself as a more regular starter than he already is. If Stephens comes in he will be an added dimension as he is not the same kind of player as Bannan. If we just got Stephens he'll provide competition for Ireland and Delph. If we got Coutinho from Inter, he'll provide competition for Bannan.

Any stats to back this up? Bannan is our most successful midfielder this season. 18/19 points with him on the pitch in the Prem. He has a higher key pass rate than Westwood and a lower dispossession rate. He also makes tackles at a higher rate than Westwood (27 in 1289 minutes compared to 19 in 1013 minutes) Out of the two midfielders Bannan creates more opportunities, loses the ball less often and makes more tackles. Fact. Yet consistently people come on here and assert "get rid" as if that is the final argument. Were these the same people saying Weimann was no good? I knew Weimann would be awesome. People who know me know I've been urging him to start from the start of the season. There is no reason to get rid of Bannan not least because he is a 'home grown' player and is still improving.

Can I be indulged? http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/20910839 Inter Milan's Wesley Sneijder open to Premier League move Doesn't want to move to QPR. Villa is a bigger club. His fellow Netherlands international, Ron Vlaar, plays for us. He'd show Bannan a thing or two. We could ask? Maybe he'll settle for 150k a week. We could afford that if we offload Given, Dunne, Warnock and Bent. He'd get us some new fans and sell some shirts. We'd have to buy cheap elsewhere though for CB, defensive CM and FW to afford Sneijder. Yes he would prefer a top Premier League club but Arsenal and Chelsea don't want to pay his salary and the Manchester clubs don't need him. Liverpool, Tottenham possible, but he might like to play for us if we can get the money together.

I agree that Bennett would be good on the left wing and should be nowhere near our defence. These possession stats back up that view. Frequency player gets caught in possession. Once every... Herd: 393 minutes Baker: 385 minutes Vlaar: 298 minutes Clark: 251 minutes Lowton: 190 minutes Stevens: 188 minutes Lichaj: 80 minutes Bennett: 58 minutes

Where did I say Clark was world class or that he should be playing for a top four club? Vermaelen has a better offensive game than Clark - at least, a better proven offensive game. This is what gets him in the Arsenal team while Vermaelen's defensive game is, in my opinion, not world class, or even good, at times. A good defense first centre back should be winning more than 59% of his headers. He doesn't but still retains his place over Per Mertesacker (who wins 69% of his headers) because he has a better offensive game. BTW I made a mistake earlier when I said Clark had never been caught in possession this season. Here are the actual stats for our defence. Frequency player gets caught in possession. Once every... Herd: 393 minutes Baker: 385 minutes Vlaar: 298 minutes Clark: 251 minutes Lowton: 190 minutes Stevens: 188 minutes Lichaj: 80 minutes Bennett: 58 minutes

Defensively? His heading percentage is 59% - worse than Clark's! Great offensive stats... but, like Clark, they wouldn't be noticed if we spent most of the game under siege in our own penalty box http://www.whoscored.com/Players/10209