TRO

Are you carrying your understandable disappointment over from the Blackburn game ( or any miserable game this year) to this one and calling it the whole season.? I would of thought a draw against them, under our circumstances is a decent result and indication of positive progress.

We came down with a punctured tyre.......we have spent this season taking off the tyre and repairing the tube......we should be back in the race next season.

Interesting.....for me , i don't give a fig what other teams do and equally have no interest in getting involved in their joy or pain. I save every globule of passion for AVFC The rest is non of my business.....thats my take.

I must admit......i see the team struggling to develop ,with him in it. I know why he is being played, Steve Bruce wants his energy, but I think we can find a player with his energy who has a better overall game. not fond of the player.

We need to be looking at players like Jonjo Shelvey and the level of consistency he gives for the whole game/the whole season. These players that give the odd goal or the odd cameo performance despite their "on show" talent......won't get us promoted. We need "men for all seasons".....who make effect week in week out.

good post Mark and one I concur with. The fascinating thing for me ( as you allude to, too)is talking to Villa Fans away from VT......say it like you & me.

Now that IS encouraging.

I just wonder....given the opportunity, would we have signed a player like Glenn Murray. I think there would have been long faces amongst the fan base. I think we sign decent players, just the wrong players to fit a blend. We need to get the balance right. Also,we still make too many individual errors that lead to goals.

I have heard many managers say, they usually sort it out themselves, whoever feels most confident on the day. to keep defaulting every error to the manager is just, tedious and desperate.

Probably the turnstiles in August

Sign of......looking for anything.

Annus horribilus.

Paul, its the principle i am trying to highlight.

One of the reasons i do not want to keep changing managers so early.....is because we are slowly developing in to a breeding ground for players with iffy attitude. I don't need to mention names, you all know who they are and In my view we have had our unfair share of them in recent times. when you keep changing managers these types are in a safe haven, knowing the incumbent will be gone in a short time.....its encouraging them. Its a dangerous game to play, if we have any ambition to rid ourselves of the past....we need stability.....and they need to know, they are tossing their careers away and it won't be tolerated.

I have a hunch its by necessity, not design.

You could have a team full of George Bests.....what can the manager do with them......hypothetically of course. great players individually or on paper, but no blend. how can a manager set that up right or adopt the right tactics.....the components are wrong. That is not to say the players are no good......the balance is no good. We need to get the balance right first and it isn't right. then you can fill your boots and slag him off, when it is.

Well i don't think all of them are no good.....but equally i don't see anyone else on the pitch ,kicking a football. I just don't happen to think a portion of the players are blameless. I believe we have an incomplete job and the balance is still not right. you can have a situation where the players are ok, but the balance is not right, because too many are the same.....thats no ones fault......means the job has not been finished. There are things the manager can do and things he can't do until the window reopens....you can't always get the players you want, but have to wait until the next window to try again. There are far too many factors, to just keep blaming the manager.

Maybe, anything...... I have to admit its much easier to get rid of 1 manager.....than c24 -30 players. and the cycle continues

I have no interest whatsoever in being smug, i want what is best for my team. Your response to him being in the middle of the job, by saying every manager is ,is simply being in denial of the supporting arguments....and its only true in the sense that even long serving managers have to dismantle and rebuild.....but your response suggests you just dismiss, the damage of the past as just a routine rebuild....its far from it.

You say kick us up the arse......Steve Bruce has never had a reputation as a shrinking violet.....and do we really want a Pearson, that despite his undoubtedly good points he acts like a hand grenade? You make the crucial point for me....who, just who could be expected to sort this "quicksand" in then time alloted, like this season. To my knowledge we have a very highly educated Director of football or equivalent in Steve Round.....We have advisers in Brian Little and Ian Taylor and Peter Withe is seen at BMH on more than one occasion.....They have a plethora of pundits and advisers swarming the place. My understanding too is that Steve Round has a big influence in who comes in and a responsibility for the template of how we play as a club not just a first team....My understanding is he and Steve Bruce work together on this. Not one to my knowledge out of these experts is saying the manager must go.....neither is the local press FWIW. If we keep our nerve, suppress our impatience ( that is not a criticism, in what we have been through.....but 7 years of shite does not equal 35 games of fix) support the people who are trying to get us back. We will be OK

meaning what exactly? I could say look at United...whats the point?

All my opinions of course....just a caveat.....not facts. Look, I am not being funny here......but none of us, including me have an idea the extent of the mire that the last administration left behind.....No one is going to clear it up quickly, even Mourinho hypothetically, would need time......more than some of us are prepared to give. There is no Harry Potter............ it took us years to get like this and it will takes years to get out of it......Sorry. When we went down the team ( IMO ) was in the main fit for Div 1.....many thought we would cope admirably in the championship, Mistake. If I am being brutally honest.....The managers after Lambert had the Himalayas to climb.....some say they wasn't up to it.....not that size of task no they wasn't. I have an air of sympathy with them....despite not being my choices.....They were just scapegoats to a sickening disease that had engulfed us. I think even Lambert himself was treading water for so long due in the main to the inept people he had around him, he was engulfed in incompetence.....He was just playing lip service to everything. It wasn't just broken, it was smashed to smithereens. I don't think Tony Xia is a fool despite recruiting RDM .....but I think even he underestimated the size of this. We have been a club that has existed for so long, scapegoating managers and masking over the insipid attitude that has allowed free loaders to flourish and good folk to stay silent. Steve Bruce needs to stay and sanitise this club, (football wise) once and for all and allow the breathing space for good values to breed.

some of the players may not individually be bad.....but some may be hoodwinking us, we think they are ok, but are not......The team is not right IMO and the players are not balanced in many ways. The culture at the club could be wrong, but I cannot be sure of that, because I simply don't know. The managers is responsible for set/up and tactics.....but if the personnel are simply not there to make that balance you have to wait until they are. I see things from the players, i find hard to blame tactics and set up ALL OF THE TIME......sometimes maybe.....but not all of the time. They have to take responsibility for their : Desire Basic skills Energy Fitness Character/Approach Application I am not saying that the manager is blameless, but when so many things are wrong it is difficult to pin point the problem, because there are so many......I am not saying its like sorting out the NHS , but after years of shit everywhere, forgive me for being tempted. This job will "fry the brain" of many managers....The culture, you could have a point , but that will take much time to change.

It makes no sense to me. lets deal with the dichotomy....Fact or opinion How long does this take to fix.....opinion. How does it get fixed, coaching alone or change of personnel or both....opinion Another window and a preseason won't fix it....Opinion. Will the club stick with him?....He's in the job....Fact We will cripple the next guy, will there be a next guy....opinion The coaching setup is not good enough, yet we have nothing to substantiate that other than what we see....opinion. The Facts We have a manager that is working with a contract and a job that is incomplete....fact He has a previous record of successfully acheiving what he is the middle of now....fact There has been no overtures from the club to suggest his job is in jeopardy.....Fact The complaints regarding the playing performances from most fans is shared by the manager....Fact. He has had a disruptive season to contend losing his 2 influential players at crucial times, to hamper his development....Fact There is absolutely no indication from the press, pundits or ex players or managers that suggest he should go after this season....Fact Lets be clear, no one has the monopoly of whats right or wrong hear, but is it too much to ask, to allow the bloke to be allowed to get on with the job and until its is blindly obvious we have given him the financial support and the windows to do it ,that and it has not happened.....Is it reasonable to criticise to the extent some of us have.....WHEN THE JOB IS INCOMPLETE. The job is difficult enough he needs nourishment not punishment.

That to me, is a brilliant post.....and above all it makes you think.....if you have an open mind that is. I think the points you make are very, very apt......There are certain things I see,like you have mentioned, that are not manager in a million years, any manager not just Steve Bruce.....We assume they( managers) sign them, so they must take responsibility for their character, but do they REALLY know their character until they see it at close quarters? I don't profess to know the answer, but I want a manager thats just left alone to get on with this toxic job and introduce a mindset that is conducive with good football and assemble a bunch of players that resemble the managers doctrine of what he learnt and mirrored at Old Trafford. Don't try and pick the apples before the apple tree has grown......He is in the middle of a very tricky rebuild IMO, let him finish it off. The judgment is much too early IMV.