TRO

You would think they will finish in the top half of the table reading that......they have flirted with relegation for a reason. i don't think the villa fans that didn't rate either of them were wrong. one swallow.......... "Brilliant, rarely loses the ball" all the various managers fault was it?

Don't be daft, i enjoy your posts.

This is a genuine question....not loaded or anything like that. I think maybe football is going past me and that this modern game is so much different to when i was younger.....Too analytical, or is it made that way? I seem to remember citations from eminent managers of the past saying "its a simple game made complicated" Perhaps its media people trying to forge a living? I can't remember me and my mates discussing whether a player would fit in to our pattern of play....it wasn't considered , it was accepted they will adapt. I can name loads of players who we signed and we would just look at their previous if they was strikers......never, "will they fit in",it never entered our heads. I wonder if we tend to over analyse today, if we tend to read in to things too much? I still believe there is much the player has to do to play his way in to relationships and form partnerships.....is there too much on third parties?

There isn't a manager born that you can't find fault with. If a fan never wanted Bruce, nothing he does will change that, they will find something. More will be revealed next season ,if he is to continue with us. I am comfortable with the modest funds, it stands to reason we have to balance the books......and we have bought too many players that have not worked out....yes all clubs do that, but the ratio of good v bad is what makes the difference at clubs. it seems to me with our record, loan players seems an economic way of dealing with it......until we can get better and attract players that are liable to give us a return and the odds work in our favour. god we have bought some shite over the last 10 years.

I think you misconstrue my point Dave......i wasn't putting conditions on the early start just focussing on the overall objective.

No, its vital to win the games that take us up.

Yeah, but good managers get the best out of 'em, so i am told.

I have been married for over 40 years so my mico opinions can change from my overall opinion. Her first touch is good, she has passion and desire , not good in the hair......she has vision( married me), but does'nt take instruction well....tends to do her own thing. A good pre-season and I think she will be ok

thats a jobbie......subtle difference.

more like a winners "Hat dude" ps or is Jack poised to be there in the summer?

Ciaran Clark is down here quite regularly, why couldn't the drinks & getogether be at the Belfry or Broad st. Jack has no relationship with Dwight Gayle etc and all they will be doing is wallowing in Newcastles Win and possibly Ciarans escape from Alcatraz sorry BMH......sorry can just imagine the Banter.....does any competing player want to sit through another teams glory......seems strange to me. I could never envisage Ferguson or mourinho being happy with that.....and I don't think Villa personel would be either. I could be wrong.....its been known

I get the points of why folk think its ok. I can think of many ex Villa players that would not have done the same thing. I can think of one, who in a million years would not have done that.

Is he on loan to them,until August.

Well as consistency is a major component in a players ability......we can watch with interest in his performances.

Its like i said.....i think there is a differece between wallowing in mediocrity and allowing a man time to do a big job.

Semantics.....depends what is in the eye of the beholder.

I am at a loss why this Bruce in/ out argument lingers. He is going to be here for the start of next season and we are going in to the new campaign with him. Things will be much clearer then. Personally, i think anyone who did not want Bruce in the first place, this seasons performances will not change their mind. Those fans that wanted him from the outset, i suspect were just fed up of being mullered and wanted a semblance of fight and combative grit to enter out game. Its been a mixed bag of ups ad downs in terms of results, there has been some good ones and disappointing ones.....I think we just want to see what he can do with another window and a pre- season. I do believe there is a steely determination now from the powers that be and i do not believe Dr Tone deals in procrastination, like Lerner presided over.....if doubts creep in and questions asked are not feasibly answered, we will see a change of manager. Howere, I think Dr Tone, Keith Wyness and Steve Round are reasonable people and if the football does not improve, searching questions will be forthcoming. I do not anticipate us hanging around this division through lack of effort....but unfortunately with these things there are no guarantee's

I agree totally with the view of not settling for mediocrity.....but there is a subtle difference between that and giving a manager time to fix a big job. I would suspect there are enough football people around villa park now to know, if we are treading water or the job is slowly coming together.....They should know the difference your view or mine has no basis to how long this takes, but we both need to be rational. It needs a reasonable amount to fix all the problems and that may include a few windows.....However, i do not want to see a situation like with Paul Lambert, where we was just drifting aimlessly......I am not in favour of that at all. He is going to have another season, so i suggest you go easy on yourself otherwise it will just become one frustating grind.

Well i would expect a poll to extend further afield tha just Alex Ferguson.....but i would agree, he has never had a reputation for manager recommendations. but to be fair GH, who would have ever thought Ron Saunders would do what he did. There is a fair amount of luck in it.

Er excuse me.....very tidy, very tidy.....he was very tidy with us, but not effective. "Filling in" for Joey Barton is not much to "write home"" about.

Well I could read something else in to that too. We have had a soft underbelly for sometime now, leaking goals at the end of games and leaking them directly after we had scored, our home record was one of the worst in all the divisions 4 wins in 18 months at one point. I see the distinction between the top and the bottom of the league results as follows The top teams we cannot at present compete in terms of quality, balance and consistency. The bottom teams we have developed a harder skin have become harder to beat, have managed to nullify their quality and have a striker who has capitalised on that and caught them on the counter attack.....to turn draws in to wins. Thats my take on it. In short, I still think we need a stronger team and that stronger includes our players individual consistency.....Those stats for the top teams may then change.

So one has never managed in this country and one has gained 4 promotions from this division. Look, ultimately we all maybe singing from the same hymn sheet, but right now he deserves another season......and more importantly, he's going to get it. Where is there any evidence that had Remi been given money anything would have been different.....We are all speculating, me included. I would wager that if you went out and polled......who do Aston Villa have more chance with Steve Bruce or Remi Garde, i think i know what the answer would be.

Thats like saying to a site agent referring to you new house, " why is the roof not on" site agent " because we haven't got to that point yet" You " You don't know what your doing, it should be up by now" ?

sorry GH but your interpretation of my analogy has taken on a whole new dimension. who has been played out of position?......back to the analogy.....to warrant swapping instruments I was referring to too many players the same or samey. your version is not what I was alluding too. To be fair mate you can argue this until the cows come home. You think the shit football is down to Steve Bruces inability.......I think he needs more time to complete his job.....nothing complicated there.....we just disagree. basically I am not jumping to a conclusion until he has had more time to complete the tasks,that he can clearly see is wrong. If you or anyone else disagrees with that and claims he should go.....Then in the greatest respect the argument is dead for me.

The reason the others were not given time , was the results were not good enough. The results under Bruce have been better......The performances need work granted. but surely you can see why Bruce is been given time.....If not the debate is dead mate