nazvfc Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I don't think this is true but say it was. Why would you have faith in an owner who 100% trusted a man with no football background picking a manager? Hmmm, Pochettino, Pellegrini, Rodgers, Mourinho......... All picked by men with 'no football background' Whatever 'football background' is... They must be experts in Fifa 2014 or Championship Manager. Seems to be the criteria from what I gather reading some of the posts in VT (and other forums) so they must be suitably qualified. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I think some of us are barking up two different trees in appraising Randy Lerner. He is responsible for all senior appointments, but he is not responsible to my knowledge for choosing the players that join our club, however the failure to sign players to take the club forward was the responsibility of the respective managers.I exclude PL as he has not had access to the level of funding the other 3 have. If he was alive today, I am sure Brian Clough would endorse my point. He always claimed Owners were old farts that knew nothing about football and were only there to provide the money....a bit tongue in cheek, but it was his way of saying, buying players to build football team is MY responsibility. I know football has changed, but some principles are still much the same....managers choose players and live and die, by those decisions.....when they go wrong, they do an "Oliver twist" and go back for more....it's then that owners reserve the right to decide whether they trust said manager, with THEIR money. Randy can only be directly responsible for choosing the manager, the actions of the manager is not so easy to blame him for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nazvfc Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I think some of us are barking up two different trees in appraising Randy Lerner. He is responsible for all senior appointments, but he is not responsible to my knowledge for choosing the players that join our club, however the failure to sign players to take the club forward was the responsibility of the respective managers.I exclude PL as he has not had access to the level of funding the other 3 have. If he was alive today, I am sure Brian Clough would endorse my point. He always claimed Owners were old farts that knew nothing about football and were only there to provide the money....a bit tongue in cheek, but it was his way of saying, buying players to build football team is MY responsibility. I know football has changed, but some principles are still much the same....managers choose players and live and die, by those decisions.....when they go wrong, they do an "Oliver twist" and go back for more....it's then that owners reserve the right to decide whether they trust said manager, with THEIR money. Randy can only be directly responsible for choosing the manager, the actions of the manager is not so easy to blame him for. Spot on TRO mate - now that was a manger of the highest order! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 When Randy took us over we were in a pretty bad state and we had a few years of joy after that. Id say we are now in a worse state than when he took over but at least still in the premier league for now. Out of interest, where were Swansea and Southampton at the same time Randy took over us? Some owners take clubs forward. Others slowly destroy them.all those players that i mentioned in my previous posts.....did Randy choose any of them? I should hope not. My point was more the bigger picture rather than zooming in on individual managers. Some owners make deceive decisions that work, others don't. Recent example of when Southampton sacked their manager that was doing ok for Pochettino. Very controversial decision that worked. If Lerner were to attempt something similar the chances are it would be destined to fail. Its was never the owners decision at Southampton though! So maybe it was Faulkner's decision of finding a manager. Lerner would have just authorised it, this is why he still gets my vote, but Faulkner........???? I don't think this is true but say it was. Why would you have faith in an owner who 100% trusted a man with no football background picking a manager? But Nicola cortese is renowned for his banking ability , not football nous.....in much the same way as Faulkner is a financial man. Both these men are CEO's not directors of football. Ps I have said before .....our problems are not confined to one man and are equally not confined to current staff at the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I think some of us are barking up two different trees in appraising Randy Lerner. He is responsible for all senior appointments, but he is not responsible to my knowledge for choosing the players that join our club, however the failure to sign players to take the club forward was the responsibility of the respective managers.I exclude PL as he has not had access to the level of funding the other 3 have. If he was alive today, I am sure Brian Clough would endorse my point. He always claimed Owners were old farts that knew nothing about football and were only there to provide the money....a bit tongue in cheek, but it was his way of saying, buying players to build football team is MY responsibility. I know football has changed, but some principles are still much the same....managers choose players and live and die, by those decisions.....when they go wrong, they do an "Oliver twist" and go back for more....it's then that owners reserve the right to decide whether they trust said manager, with THEIR money. Randy can only be directly responsible for choosing the manager, the actions of the manager is not so easy to blame him for. My thoughts exactly!!!! I think Tro we have the same views!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amo69 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Yeah but we can't blame MON anymore because he has gone. Lerner is still around so has to get the stick until he's gone to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I don't think this is true but say it was. Why would you have faith in an owner who 100% trusted a man with no football background picking a manager? Hmmm, Pochettino, Pellegrini, Rodgers, Mourinho......... All picked by men with 'no football background' Whatever 'football background' is... They must be experts in Fifa 2014 or Championship Manager. Seems to be the criteria from what I gather reading some of the posts in VT (and other forums) so they must be suitably qualified. So I guess we ended up with houllier and especially McLeish because of the great business minds we have running the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amo69 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 As a owner you can't really fault his backing of MON and Houllier. I also think he would have continued backing Houllier and we would have been in a decent position were it not for his health issues. It's the insult to the fans when appointed Mcleish that was the beginning of the end of his ownership of Aston Villa. I'm convinced he's intentions are now to just keep us in this league with the minimum amount of investment possible to do this until the club is sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Yeah but we can't blame MON anymore because he has gone. Lerner is still around so has to get the stick until he's gone to. Blimey, political parties blame each other years after they are out of office.....positive or negative. No manager can simply leave a club and all his ACTIONS leave with him....it's absurd to think it can. Whether you rate Charles NZogbia or not Alex McLeish paid c 10 mill for him, Alex is no longer at the club( blame doesn't come in to,it, it's abstract) we have got little from the player.....this money does not grow on trees and some other person has to manage that misjudgment and it's financial consequences. If you read my posts I say the problems we have are not confined to one man. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nazvfc Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I don't think this is true but say it was. Why would you have faith in an owner who 100% trusted a man with no football background picking a manager? Hmmm, Pochettino, Pellegrini, Rodgers, Mourinho......... All picked by men with 'no football background' Whatever 'football background' is... They must be experts in Fifa 2014 or Championship Manager. Seems to be the criteria from what I gather reading some of the posts in VT (and other forums) so they must be suitably qualified. So I guess we ended up with houllier and especially McLeish because of the great business minds we have running the club. Never said they were great mate - but when we did have 'Football people' when your hero (Joking mate just joking) was Chairman we had football people - the man himself Steve Stride and Mark Ansell (and before Ansell) they hired shite in Graham Turner, Billy McNeil etc. so there's no change there. So it's NOT a new phenomenon reserved for Randy and Faulkner 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amo69 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 What I meant is we can blame past managers but it will make no difference. If we blame the owner and vent our frustrations enough at every level. There is a very small chance his awareness of this may increase his desire to end his involvement in the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) Yeah but we can't blame MON anymore because he has gone. Lerner is still around so has to get the stick until he's gone to. Certainly one way of looking at it.....just not the way I see it. .....So does that kinda mean because you can no longer punish him, you can't blame him....he's kinda not there to clout, so clout somebody that is. Not sure I like the word "blame" it seems so unsupportive, I prefer to refer to responsibility. Edited January 18, 2014 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I don't think this is true but say it was. Why would you have faith in an owner who 100% trusted a man with no football background picking a manager?Hmmm, Pochettino, Pellegrini, Rodgers, Mourinho......... All picked by men with 'no football background' Whatever 'football background' is... They must be experts in Fifa 2014 or Championship Manager. Seems to be the criteria from what I gather reading some of the posts in VT (and other forums) so they must be suitably qualified. So I guess we ended up with houllier and especially McLeish because of the great business minds we have running the club. Never said they were great mate - but when we did have 'Football people' when your hero (Joking mate just joking) was Chairman we had football people - the man himself Steve Stride and Mark Ansell (and before Ansell) they hired shite in Graham Turner, Billy McNeil etc. so there's no change there. So it's NOT a new phenomenon reserved for Randy and Faulkner I agree, apart from my hero part , my point was you can't just put all the blame on Faulkner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amo69 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I also think Faulkner's job was to 'balance the books' whilst keeping us in the league. If that was the case you could say he has done a good job. Just need the next stage of Randy's plan now so we can start to look up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I also think Faulkner's job was to 'balance the books' whilst keeping us in the league. If that was the case you could say he has done a good job. Just need the next stage of Randy's plan now so we can start to look up. That's if there is a next phase to 'The Plan' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amo69 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I also think Faulkner's job was to 'balance the books' whilst keeping us in the league. If that was the case you could say he has done a good job. Just need the next stage of Randy's plan now so we can start to look up.That's if there is a next phase to 'The Plan'I have to believe the next phase is to sell the club. Anything else depresses me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Yeah but we can't blame MON anymore because he has gone. Lerner is still around so has to get the stick until he's gone to. Blimey, political parties blame each other years after they are out of office.....positive or negative. No manager can simply leave a club and all his ACTIONS leave with him....it's absurd to think it can. Example ....whether you rate Charles NZogbia or not Alex McLeish paid c 10 mill for him, Alex is no longer at the club( blame doesn't come in to,it, it's abstract) we have got little from the player.....this money does not grow on trees and some other person has to manage that misjudgment and it's financial consequences. If you read my posts I say the problems we have are not confined to one man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I also think Faulkner's job was to 'balance the books' whilst keeping us in the league. If that was the case you could say he has done a good job. Just need the next stage of Randy's plan now so we can start to look up. It would'nt take a genius CEO to balance the books. Sell high earners and bring in cheap, max out the salaries to 15K a week. There job done, Fauklner has to take at least 50% of the blame, He is now clearing up the mess he (ok and Lerner) has got the company into?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) I don't think this is true but say it was. Why would you have faith in an owner who 100% trusted a man with no football background picking a manager? Hmmm, Pochettino, Pellegrini, Rodgers, Mourinho......... All picked by men with 'no football background' Whatever 'football background' is... They must be experts in Fifa 2014 or Championship Manager. Seems to be the criteria from what I gather reading some of the posts in VT (and other forums) so they must be suitably qualified. So I guess we ended up with houllier and especially McLeish because of the great business minds we have running the club. No, they consulted 'football people' in the case of Houllier, and we know (urban myth?) that a 'football person' sent a letter of recommendation of McLeish. Perhaps that is what put them off and why they are now steering clear of 'football people' Edited January 18, 2014 by thetrees 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 It is unlikely anyone in football is going to give our owner impartial advice....certainly not SAF who is a past master of mind games and would only see us as a competitor. If we want advice, it has to be on the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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